Split the differences in John 1:13?

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dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi all,

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
[even] to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born,
1) not of blood, 2) nor of the will of the flesh, 3) nor of the will of man,
but of God.


John uses three different phrases there, and I feel there must be specific scriptural distinctions between them, but I'm not sure what they might be. Does anyone have revelation for this verse?

Many thanks if you do. Please share.
 

Axehead

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May 9, 2012
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Hi dragonfly,

The will of the flesh - attempting to live the Christian life on your own without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The will of man - Men cannot make you a Christian through their rituals or commands.

Not of blood - Just because your parents are Christians and you were raised in their home does not automagically make you a Christian. (Look at Aaron's sons, or Eli's sons in Exodus and Samuel).

Blessings to you,
Axehead
 
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Episkopos

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Hi dragonfly,

The will of the flesh - attempting to live the Christian life on your own without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The will of man - Men cannot make you a Christian through their rituals or commands.

Not of blood - Just because your parents are Christians and you were raised in their home does not automagically make you a Christian. (Look at Aaron's sons, or Eli's sons in Exodus and Samuel).

Blessings to you,
Axehead

Consider that subject nailed!!!! :)
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Axehead, :)

Thank you for that. I read your post and it seemed immediately clear, but I've had to read it more than once to keep the different meanings properly sorted. It's as if that verse has baffled me for so long that a fuzz has developed. But thank you. I think I've 'got it' now. Amen.
 

whitestone

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Apr 3, 2011
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Hi all,

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
[even] to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born,
1) not of blood, 2) nor of the will of the flesh, 3) nor of the will of man,
but of God.


John uses three different phrases there, and I feel there must be specific scriptural distinctions between them, but I'm not sure what they might be. Does anyone have revelation for this verse?

Many thanks if you do. Please share.

Hello dear brethren,

(Joh 3:5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(Joh 3:7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
(Joh 3:8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

(Jas 1:18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

(1Pe 1:23) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
(1Pe 1:24) For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

(Gal 4:26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(1Jn 2:29) If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

(Joh 16:19) Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?
(Joh 16:20) Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
(Joh 16:21) A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
(Joh 16:22) And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Mar 8, 2011
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[sup]11 [/sup]He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him

He is talking about the Jews here
........................................................................................................

[sup]12 [/sup]Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

He is talking about the Gentiles here
........................................................................................................

[sup]13 [/sup]children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Further description of the Gentile (non-Jewish) believers .
.......................................................................................................

I think the whole point is that the Chosen people (Israel) (born of natural decent) did not receive Christ

But the Gentiles did receive Christ ... and now are considered "born of God"
 

dragonfly

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Apr 19, 2012
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Hi Arnie,

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

I'm open to correction here, but by 'his own' I understand John to be referring to those who had a role in Israel to announce Messiah formally. They knew all about Messiah's natural credentials - that He would be born in Bethlehem, that He would be of Judah, that He would do God's will perfectly (Isaiah 42) and - additionally - He would be a light to the Gentiles. There is no way Messiah could come to Israel, and not be for Israelites.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant

to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel:

I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth


This may be the verse which Paul has in mind when he quotes it in Acts 13:'... lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

By 'us', Paul is referring to Israelites who believed in Messiah. Yes, God sent Paul to the Gentiles with a public ministry, but Israelite Christians knew that to them had been entrusted the word (oracles Rom 3:2) of God for the purpose of bringing salvation to the ends of the earth. It would not have been possible to be a descendant of Abraham, and not know that - - - - because God had told Abraham that through him all the nations of the earth would be blessed. Gal 3:14.

Indeed, John the Baptist, that strangely-dressed guy who lived in the wilderness on wild things for food, did announce Him. But John - although a Levite - had never had a role in the Temple as his father had done. Being called to prophesy had isolated him from the religious hierarchy. And the religious hierarchy did nothing to protect him from imprisonment and death. That's how 'popular' he was. Nevertheless, the people who wanted to be right with God recognised his message because they were convicted by it. They repented and submitted to his baptism for the remission of sins.

It must be fair to say that they, too, were watching for the one he heralded who would come after him. The continuity of his ministry - baptism for remission of sins - was carried on by Jesus and His disciples, for those who turned from John to follow Jesus, and we know that Jesus had many followers, for from among them He could select 70 disciples to send out, and from an even greater number, he chose the twelve.

Therefore, I do not believe that 'as many as received Him' refers only to Gentiles. Far, far from it. This is plain from reading Acts, as there were no Gentiles in the Church until Acts 10.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

It is more likely that John was indicating that Jesus came to the commoners - those with no religious role, title or status - and that these ordinary people who receive Him, are received by Him and given power to become the sons of God.

For us, that means we need to follow Him as His disciples followed Him, having our minds renewed and exercising the power and authority we receive through the Holy Spirit's enabling, to walk as He walked, that we might be equipped for eternal life, where there will be only righteousness.

Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again;
as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Our obedience to our Father (Luke 22:42, Heb 10:5, 6, 7; Heb 12:9, Matt 7:21) is a prerequisite to our bodily resurrection, found only through having been grafted into His death by a spiritual transaction with God through the Holy Spirit, that we may here, first, according to the power of His life.

Acts 26:6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
7 Unto which [promise] our twelve tribes, instantly serving [God] day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. [Obviously, unbelieving Jews. We know some had believed.]

8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests;
and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them]. 11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue,
and compelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even to strange cities.


Paul is, of course, referring to the Church which had come into being through the day of Pentecost and the evangelism which followed, in which there was not one single Gentile believer. They had never been preached to, until Peter did.
 

Axehead

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May 9, 2012
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[sup]11 [/sup]He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him

He is talking about the Jews here
........................................................................................................

[sup]12 [/sup]Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

He is talking about the Gentiles here

Actually, He is still talking about anyone, since this is true of anyone that receives Him.
........................................................................................................

[sup]13 [/sup]children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Further description of the Gentile (non-Jewish) believers .
.......................................................................................................
See my original 3 descriptions.

I think the whole point is that the Chosen people (Israel) (born of natural decent) did not receive Christ

But the Gentiles did receive Christ ... and now are considered "born of God"

Did you know that the original, initial Church were Jews? 3000 alone were added to the Church on the day of Pentecost and many thereafter.

Axehead