Spoken by the prophets? Yes, but where?
- Thread starter Matthias
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In order to see it we‘ll need to look at the passage in Hebrew. Here’s a link to a Hebrew - English side by side translation.
The Hebrew word we’re looking for in Isaiah 11:1 is netzer. In English it is translated “branch”.
”A shoot will come out of the stock of Jesse; and a branch [Heb. netzer] out of his roots will bear fruit.”
We’re one step closer. How do we get from netzer / branch to the prophesy about Jesus?
The Hebrew word we’re looking for in Isaiah 11:1 is netzer. In English it is translated “branch”.
”A shoot will come out of the stock of Jesse; and a branch [Heb. netzer] out of his roots will bear fruit.”
We’re one step closer. How do we get from netzer / branch to the prophesy about Jesus?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Well, Isaiah 11:1-4 could definitely be considered a Messianic prophesy. And if Jesus was considered legally a descendent of Jesse through Joseph (which Matthew does; see Matthew 1:5), then yes, it applies to Jesus.
A netzer-ene?
As an unrepentant punster myself, I appreciate a good play on words. But in translating a pun from Hebrew to Greek to English, the meaning tends to get lost. I will note that the OT does contain a lot of Hebrew word-play. Does that mean that God is a punster too?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
“The answer lies in the Hebrew.”
(Rabbi Brian Samuel)
The rabbi provides the next step.
Is the rabbi correct? I recommend consulting multiple Christian Commentaries.
For a moment, let’s forget what the rabbi tells us. (And also my suggestion to consult Christian commentaries.)
The skeptical Jew will ask the pertinent question: “Where in the prophets do you find this prophecy?”
Our answer: “Well, nowhere.”
The skeptical Jew nods his head approvingly (and glances at the nearby trash receptacle.)
Leaving us to ask the question: “Matthew, what have you done to us?”
***
A word to atheists and agnostics. Are you listening to the believing Jew or the skeptical Jew?
In the skeptical Jew you have an ally of sorts. In the believing Jew, an adversary.
***
P. S.
If we’re going to be apologists, we’re going to be ambushed. It comes with the territory.
“Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.”
(1 Peter 3:15, AMPC)
Our answer can be at times: “I don’t know where, but I’ll look into it and get back to you with an answer.”
If / when it is, be a person of your word. Look into the matter and follow-up with an answer.
The skeptical Jew will ask the pertinent question: “Where in the prophets do you find this prophecy?”
Our answer: “Well, nowhere.”
The skeptical Jew nods his head approvingly (and glances at the nearby trash receptacle.)
Leaving us to ask the question: “Matthew, what have you done to us?”
***
A word to atheists and agnostics. Are you listening to the believing Jew or the skeptical Jew?
In the skeptical Jew you have an ally of sorts. In the believing Jew, an adversary.
***
P. S.
If we’re going to be apologists, we’re going to be ambushed. It comes with the territory.
“Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.”
(1 Peter 3:15, AMPC)
Our answer can be at times: “I don’t know where, but I’ll look into it and get back to you with an answer.”
If / when it is, be a person of your word. Look into the matter and follow-up with an answer.
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A motto: Be prepared.
The Boy Scouts? Surely.
Apologists? You better you better you bet. (That’s catchy. Someone ought to use that line in a song. But who?)
The Boy Scouts? Surely.
Apologists? You better you better you bet. (That’s catchy. Someone ought to use that line in a song. But who?)
We have been left this way before trying to understand the thinking process of the Ones who wrote the scriptures .
Good thing we as Christians have the Holy Spirit to guide us
.Be ready to heed the guiding of the Holy Spirit in what you say to someone . The Holy Spirit can point you in a direction that does not really make sense to you but the Holy Spirit has all knowledge and we have to submit to that Authority .
The thinking process of those who wrote scripture is Jewish.
Good thing we as Christians have the Holy Spirit to guide us
Yes.
Not everyone who says the Holy Spirit is guiding them has the Holy Spirit guiding him or her. If what a person is saying doesn’t make sense, at a minimum that’s a caution light.
Good thing we as Christians have the Holy Spirit to guide us
This might be a topic for a new thread but I’ll broach it here: Good thing the Messiah had / has the Holy Spirit to guide him.
Please let me know if you think it’s a good topic for discussion.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Yes of course . Matthew could have known many things that are not available to us is what I am trying to say .
True .
Surely , but I was talking about the information we receive from the Holy Spirit .
Yeah , might be a good topic for discussion .
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