Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[Wrangler]

Okay. I get it. Your answer to Paul when he asked if Christ is divided would be yes.

Oy vey! You do know "the body of Christ" is a figurative expression, right?

 

[amigo de christo]

I also don’t see God as a tyrant. Not at all.

just a quick and friendly reminder . IF ANYONE SEES the GOD in the old testament
as a tryant , THEN THEY DO SEE GOD as a tryrant .
IF anyone sees The CHRIST of GOD as somehow different FROM GOD
they are decieved and dont even really know the JESUS of the new testament .
A LOT OF PEOPLE VIEW GOD as A TRYANT . WELL THE BIBLICAL GOD and HIS CHRIST . YEAH THEY DO SEE GOD as a tryant .
But not you , cause you love and embrace the bible , that GOD and HIS CHRIST ...........right .

 

[amigo de christo]

Okay. I get it. Your answer to Paul when he asked if Christ is divided would be yes.

No . Christ is not divided . The fact simply is NOT ALL of CHRISTENDOM IS OF CHRIST . that might sting but true it is .
Not all who lip the name of JESUS even KNOW HIM OR LOVE HIM . fact is MOST DONT . its a hard fact and a sad one
for me to see this daily . But it is why i will correct all errors and etc , reminding all to get in the bible for themselves .
and be in prayer that some will hear and repent .

 

[amigo de christo]

THERE IS VICTORY IN JESUS . let all praise and all thank the glorious LORD .

 

[Mink57]

Well…..just LOL. Did Adam and Eve ever have a chance? How long had Eve been alive before she faced off against the crafty speaking serpent or Satan as some believe…..did she have a chance? What was such a creature doing in "Eden" as most call it? Should God have allowed such an encounter? Did God think that humans would be perfect? Christ told us to be perfect like His Father....will only perfect Christians be saved?

What was the knowledge of good and evil? And why was it a secret? Shouldn’t God have taught them the knowledge of good and evil? Why kick them out to learn on their own?

But good thing all the blame fell on Eve, so men could blame them for everything and produce a society where women are second class. It is a wonder that it is not a religious belief for Jews and Christians to hate their mothers.

Either way if you read the story it appears that it was Adam that got them kicked out with two strikes….Adam being the senior person present with the most experience did eat of the "apple"----as some call it….But it was Adam that got them kicked out by blaming God for giving him a fault mate.

How many Christian men use the interpretation of the story to be abusive to their wives. Get me a beer wench and make it snappy!

EVERYTHING in your post is soooooo TRUE! The underlined, especially.

 

[Wrangler]

Just because there are 35,000 divisions and still growing …doesn’t make it true.

I just thought of a funny analogy to bring this line of thinking back to the OP. Apply it to feminists claiming victim status and a reason to reject all feminist goals ... Just because there are 35,000 examples of sex discrimination against women and still growing …doesn’t make it true.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Oy vey! You do know "the body of Christ" is a figurative expression, right?

I’m not following your line of thought. I can’t make sense of what you say. Earlier you made the comment the word of God is highly figurative. Most I’ve mentioned or things I’ve brought up, you claim it is figurative. like it’s Shakespeare. I don’t know why you prefer the word figurative over simply it is Spiritual. I had to look up “figurative” since it’s one of your favorite escape goats pertaining to the Bible.. ‘Figurative language is a form of expression that uses nonliteral meanings to convey a more abstract meaning or message. (<why can’t we just say to teach of spiritual things??) There are many types, including: similes, metaphors, idioms, hyperboles, and personification.’



You’ll fight tooth and nail to give it some term other than Spirit, that makes it fit what you say. Go for it! Ive wasted days. I’ve learned my lesson. It’s like that expression: it is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't know what "304's" are. Never heard that term before.

If you type this number into a calculator and read it upside down it looks like:
lowercase "h"
the letter "o"
capital "E"

What does that spell? A garden tool that is slang for a promiscuous woman (not man).

I have mentioned before that I've read the bible from cover to cover TWICE, and yes there DOES appear to be many contradictions.

Oh sister! This statement is so revealing. It explains so readily why you have not triumphed over feminism; you feel you cannot trust God's word.

I just starting reading a book tonight called Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions. I'll share germane insights as I come across them. Years ago, when I was an enemy of Christ, a Christian coworker admitted that there are apparent contradictions in the Bible. However, upon further study, one realizes this becomes a matter of figurative language, context, translation difficulty, etc. For instance, eskimos have 37 words for snow. So, if we were to translate, something would be lost in the translation.

Another example is the lie that God told - if the Bible contains contradictions - that when Adam eats the forbidden fruit, he will surely die. The Hebrew word is better translated "begin to die." There is no exact translation. In business schools we studied strategic planning invoking 2 contradictory idioms.

• The early bird gets the worm.
• The second mouse gets the cheese.

Which one is right? It depends on the context, on the application.

Again, it comes down to interpretation.

There is only one proper interpretation - through the Spirit. I listened to a podcast today by Wild At Heart. The guest received revelation from God "start fire." How to interpret that? This is why Hebrews 4:12, the Word of God is alive, is true. Different people read these living words and get a different take. I once talked to Billy Graham (not the famous one), who shared what I did in reading the same passage and walking away with a new take. This is because we interpret it through the Spirit, who guides us on what we need to take from it. That is, how we need to apply it.

Beyond that is a nice segue with the conversation I've been having with @VictoryinJesus about logic and objective word meanings, facts and drawing objective opinions. For instance, many Bibles have a summary statement of each book. These summaries are not the same. Yet, they are not contradictory either. All are grounded in textual criticism.

I'll give you 2 examples. One Bible I read, Every Man's Bible NLT obviously revolves around men's needs. Another Bible I read, CEV Challenge Study Bible is written for addicts in mind. (I determined the book applies to me and all humans on the basis that we are all addicted to sin.) The book summaries are very different. So too are the study notes. For instance, the CEV has the longest study note regarding the most famous kiss in human history. The NLT has no note at all on that verse. Neither is wrong and I don't think it is truly a matter of interpretation but rather looking at the objective facts of the text from different point of views, different applications.

Ever read Paradise Lost by John Milton? It is considered the greatest poem ever written in the English language. The entire book is said to occur between 2 verses in the Bible. It was condemned in its day because it portrayed Satan as a sympathetic character. His claim that it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven is delusional. He is not ruling in hell but exiled, being punished in hell. The book also does an outstanding job of portraying the anguish Adam put himself through in being alone again, knowing Eve would die in eating the forbidden fruit.

It is dangerous for one to indulge their subjective opinions, commit eisegesis. In a 3rd Bible I read, NRSV Cultural Study Bible, the man who told Jesus he could not follow him because he had to bury his father is glossed over today. It was an idiom in 1st century Judea that is akin to "when hell freezes over." Point being, interpretation, like opinions, can be objectively true or merely subjectively true, i.e., only 'true' in your mind. That is, unless you are being directed by the Holy Spirit, e.g., start fire.

If you see contradictions then you need to read it a third time cover to cover.

She needs to read it with a humble heart, guided by the Holy Spirit. Humility comes before honor.

 

[Wrangler]

I don’t know why you prefer the word figurative over simply it is Spiritual.

Petty criticism. Each are equally and simply one word.

The simple reason I use the word figurative is because that is the word referring to categories of language. Spiritual is not. Hear me well. The topic may be spiritual but the words are either literal or figurative. All of the Bible is Spiritual for it is a Spiritual topic. Not all of the Bible is properly categorized as literal.

Using subjectivism, anyone can imbue any words with Spiritual significance. Feed the dogs. Or as @MA2444 is fond of saying, make me a sandwich.

Conversely, anyone can take words with Spiritual significance and disavow it. My ex-wife did that. She once told me she recently re-read her wedding vows and found them meaningless. I replied, you felt they had meaning at the time. Mic drop!

it’s one of your favorite escape goats pertaining to the Bible

Projecting. It is you who hope invoking the word "Spiritual" allows you to take the word of God to mean what it does not say, e.g., Proverbs 31 Woman (and not man).

 

[Wynona]

She needs to read it with a humble heart, guided by the Holy Spirit. Humility comes before honor.

I needed this badly and wish I had done this from the beginning of my faith journey.

I relied too much on preachers, churches, and sayings and not enough reading Bible for myself.

I could never accomplish anything good without staying in the Scriptures and treating them like food.

I had envy for women who got attention from guys and seemed free to do what they wished whenever. I had lust for male attention outside my marriage. I overate. I shopped and maxxed out a credit card or two. No self-control. No fruit.

The Bible forms the mind of Christ in us and when Christ is formed in us, He overcomes the sin that controlled us. Once I read it for myself, I discovered how much God wants us to obey Him, not just believe in Him.

The blessings of obedience are indescribable.

I was treacherous. Now Im trusted. I was emotional, mentally unstable, had uncontrollable appetites, and tore down my husband by constantly thinking Id be better off without him.

Now we are building a legacy together. God gave us a mission to break the generational curses on our families by faith. We are one flesh together in this.

God is better than getting my way, being in control, comfort, and worthy of any suffering living righteously causes. Knowing the Lord is better than money, status, and living for self. When you humble yourself and submit to that Word, God will lift you right back up. He promised.

 

[Wrangler]

I discovered how much God wants us to obey Him, not just believe in Him.

I realized why God so passionately wants us to obey him. It's not that he is a merciless tyrant. It has to do with the expression, "they don't have eyes to see or ears to hear." For the @VictoryinJesus's of the world, this is not literally the case but a figurative expression. It means their mind (spirit, if you will) is closed to the truth.

And the truth is this. Those who set their own path, who "don't have eyes to see or ears to hear," are literally headed for death. They just don't realize it. It is less that we are punished for our sins than BY our sins. God, our Father and Creator, established a path for our survival, He desperately wants us to live, to chose the path of life. Sadly, those who "don't have eyes to see or ears to hear" have chosen over and over and over again the path that leads to death. <sigh>

Not even our all powerful God can stop it for he so loves his Creation with Free Will, he will not deprive us of our humanity and he will, in the end, with great sadness, respect our choice.

 

[MA2444]

I don't see God as a tyrant. Not at all.

Oh so you were trying to say that see God as a tyrant! But that couldnt be further from the truth because the only thing that God has shown to me of Himself is loving both NT and OT
He's not some big angry God that says lets go pick on the women! That's nutty.

Nope. Not paying for anything.

I know, that's always the first words out of a feminist mouth, lol.

I am HAPPY where I am in life.

Oh you are not! Otherwise you would have happiness on your lips instead of bellyaching.

I don't know what "304's" are. Never heard that term before.

Havent you ever had a pager? There is many words you can write in numbers and when you turn the pager upside down you can read it. It's a slight move towards ploitness rather than saying the word.

Says WHO? You? A MAN? Sorry, but unless the man I'm with obeys GOD, I don't have to obey HIM.

Now we're getting to the heart of the matter. You wont obey a man unless he obeys God...perfectly. There is your justification for misbehaving. No man is perfect and you know that, but use it for your justification. Good luck with that! If he can do it so can I she said, lol.

Says WHO? You? A MAN? Sorry, but unless the man I'm with obeys GOD, I don't have to obey HIM.

Do you have a scripture for that?

The 'feminist' in me would tell you to go make your own >*&)) sandwich!! Your arms aren't broken....
The 'wife' in me would have probably already made you a sandwich as we were having this *ahem* discussion.

That's not such a bad answer. There may be hope for you yet!

You DID say that you somehow 'failed' because you spoiled your ex-wife. And your ex-wife pretty much 'ate up' your compliments, etc. Maybe YOU don't put any blame on her, but I SURE DO. I may be a feminist in some regards, but that doesn't mean that I believe in ALL of feminism...and that husbands should CONSTANTLY cater to their wives EVERY whim...or that they should be SHOWERED with compliments, gifts, and dang near WORSHIPPED. In all honesty, if you REALLY treated your ex the way you said you did, that would have made ME terribly, terribly uncomfortable.

That's because you women understand women, and ya'll hate each other! What did I do to my exwife that would have made you uncomfortable? Being overly nice to her?

I don't want someone to put me on a pedestal. But by the same token, I'm not about to 'worship' him, either.

Oh is that why? Well newsflash, scripture never says to worship each other. Nobody said you should worship your husband, that's bitter ex wife thinking. Exagerate it and make it sound worse.

You want a sandwich? Ok. But would ever consider making ME a sandwich?

Honestly, prolly not. I would have been more likely to leave you sitting at McDonalds, lol.
waitaminute...is your name Bonnie?! Lol.

 

[MA2444]

It's both.

Oh, pleez...I never dated 'Chads'. My late husband was 5'7" and I'm 5'5". Plus, he was about 225 lbs. Was HE a "Chad"? Neither did he make a 6-digit income.

I didn't find out about all the hookers and prostitutes he had been with until AFTER we were married.

As I explained, while I dated a few 'good men', our goals simply weren't aligned.

You did so date plent of chads. Everytime you recount those evil men you describe chad's to a Tee. And your a good woman and can so choose a good man so...it didnt work out with the good men so I went and chose the evil geniuses instead, boo hoo hoo.

Are you for real? He wasnt 6 ft tall so isnt a chad? He didnt make 6 figures so isnt a chad?
You've reduced chad to a pre scripted definition that allows you the room no navigate your conscience and do what you want.

Except it caught up with you.

 

[MA2444]

Well…..just LOL. Did Adam and Eve ever have a chance? How long had Eve been alive before she faced off against the crafty speaking serpent or Satan as some believe…..did she have a chance? What was such a creature doing in "Eden" as most call it? Should God have allowed such an encounter? Did God think that humans would be perfect? Christ told us to be perfect like His Father....will only perfect Christians be saved?

What? Oh come on, They had one rule they had to follow. One rule. So it's God's fault? Was He unfair? Bullcookies.

The Lord knows we cant be perfect. He doesnt judge us on perfection or how we finish. He judges us by our intentions and the state of our heart. We did fail, but what did we do then? Turn to God? No, hide from God.

It was true enough that Adam & Eve had no knowledge of good & evil, so they didnt even know what a lie was! So what did the little child of God do when he took them to the carnival? She wouldnt hold his hand and wriggled free to run off, and she got herself in trouble right away. WHo's at fault here? The parent or the kid?

Why didnt eve yell, Lord what is this serpent saying? I need your help! Why didnt Eve ask Adam if it's true or not before she fell for it?

What was the knowledge of good and evil? And why was it a secret? Shouldn’t God have taught them the knowledge of good and evil? Why kick them out to learn on their own?

I dunno. Maybe we was in heaven as spirits when Lucifer fell and were asking questions? What is good? WHat is evil? What is love? So to answer our questions he had to let us see what evil is and hate. Then we could comprehend what love is. We've obviously been intruduced to evil and death first, welcome to Earth! Something like that maybe.

What was the knowledge of good and evil? And why was it a secret? Shouldn’t God have taught them the knowledge of good and evil? Why kick them out to learn on their own?

God didnt kick them out to learn on their own. He saved us from being able to eat from the tree of life again and being forever lost in our sins.
And what did we do with our knowledge of sin that came that day? We embraced it instead of run from it. They ran so far away from God that they were able to make a bomb that would kill hundreds of thousands of people at once.

If we was asking the Lord questions like I said...I think I will keep my mouth shut and trust God and just take Him at His word the next time!

The Lord told me when I asked Him once, why does He allow all the suffering? And He told me that some things can not be taught without suffering.../

And we have no clue what He has in store for us after we go to Heaven.

Either way if you read the story it appears that it was Adam that got them kicked out with two strikes….Adam being the senior person present with the most experience did eat of the "apple"----as some call it….But it was Adam that got them kicked out by blaming God for giving him a fault mate.

Oh stop looking for something to badmouth Adam about. It was man's fault, he sinned knowingly whereas Eve was deceived so it wasnt held against her in divine court. There was still eartly consequences to be paid for though. That's how God designed our material realm to work.

How many Christian men use the interpretation of the story to be abusive to their wives. Get me a beer wench and make it snappy!

Well we're all a bunch of idiots, welcome to the club. It is what it is. So some men will have a moment of, Ahh this is nice, get me a beer babe, and she does it.
That's almost the same as women preening! How come you girls always strike a pose when you know a mans looking at you? How much is all that makeup in your purse worth? The High dollar outfits that scream look at me! Look at me!

The bottom line is yeah, men have their faults, some worse than others. So do Women! SOme worse than others...

I dont drink beer, go make me a sandwich! Lol.

Hey it was you all women that started this uppity sufferage crap back in the 1800's, lol.
You could blame Jane Fonda some, but you wont do that because she's a woman, lol!

 

[Wrangler]

Oh you are not! Otherwise you would have happiness on your lips instead of bellyaching.

She's in denial.

Now we're getting to the heart of the matter. You wont obey a man unless he obeys God...perfectly. There is your justification for misbehaving. No man is perfect and you know that, but use it for your justification. Good luck with that!

I delved into this with her a while back. She is taking something from God that is unconditional, obey and submit to her man, and placing herself above God in deciding what he deemed unconditional, she will treat as conditional.

The kicker is she blames men for her choices. Very sad and all too common.

 

[Wrangler]

It was man's fault, he sinned knowingly whereas Eve was deceived so it wasnt held against her in divine court.

I don't agree with that at all. They both knew it was going against God. Eve committed the first sin. The reason it is called Adam's sin is because the first sin was the sin of omission by Adam. He saw her being tempted and did nothing.

 

[Mink57]

What? Oh come on, They had one rule they had to follow. One rule. So it's God's fault? Was He unfair? Bullcookies.

Well, Adam sure thought his own screw up was partly God's fault.

The Lord knows we cant be perfect. He doesnt judge us on perfection or how we finish. He judges us by our intentions and the state of our heart. We did fail, but what did we do then? Turn to God? No, hide from God.

Of course. Shame. Fear of punishment....

It was true enough that Adam & Eve had no knowledge of good & evil, so they didnt even know what a lie was! So what did the little child of God do when he took them to the carnival? She wouldnt hold his hand and wriggled free to run off, and she got herself in trouble right away. WHo's at fault here? The parent or the kid?

They had enough knowledge to understand that dying wasn't a good thing.

Why didnt eve yell, Lord what is this serpent saying? I need your help! Why didnt Eve ask Adam if it's true or not before she fell for it?

Why didn't ADAM yell? Why didn't ADAM shout, "I need your help, Lord!" Adam was WITH Eve while that conversation between Eve and the serpent was taking place.

I dunno. Maybe we was in heaven as spirits when Lucifer fell and were asking questions? What is good? WHat is evil? What is love? So to answer our questions he had to let us see what evil is and hate. Then we could comprehend what love is. We've obviously been intruduced to evil and death first, welcome to Earth! Something like that maybe.

Not a bad supposition.

God didnt kick them out to learn on their own. He saved us from being able to eat from the tree of life again and being forever lost in our sins.
And what did we do with our knowledge of sin that came that day? We embraced it instead of run from it. They ran so far away from God that they were able to make a bomb that would kill hundreds of thousands of people at once.

Agreed!

If we was asking the Lord questions like I said...I think I will keep my mouth shut and trust God and just take Him at His word the next time!

The Lord told me when I asked Him once, why does He allow all the suffering? And He told me that some things can not be taught without suffering.../

And we have no clue what He has in store for us after we go to Heaven.

Agreed again! That's TWICE I agree with you.

Oh stop looking for something to badmouth Adam about. It was man's fault, he sinned knowingly whereas Eve was deceived so it wasnt held against her in divine court. There was still eartly consequences to be paid for though. That's how God designed our material realm to work.

Oops. Gotta agree with Grailhunter on this one.

Well we're all a bunch of idiots, welcome to the club. It is what it is. So some men will have a moment of, Ahh this is nice, get me a beer babe, and she does it.

Hold up....Grailhunter mentions that some Christian men use the interpretation of that story to be ABUSIVE to their wives, and all you have to say is, "It is what it is?"

That's almost the same as women preening! How come you girls always strike a pose when you know a mans looking at you?

We don't. But it's the same as a woman smiling and glancing in a man's direction, for him to think, "She WANTS me!"

How much is all that makeup in your purse worth?

I don't have make up in my purse. Only thing in my purse is a 20 year old wallet. I don't even carry a comb or a mirror.

The High dollar outfits that scream look at me! Look at me!

A pair of sweats, oversized tee-shirt, hair in a pony tail, no make up on. And I STILL get hit on.

The bottom line is yeah, men have their faults, some worse than others. So do Women! SOme worse than others...

I dont drink beer, go make me a sandwich! Lol.

Hey it was you all women that started this uppity sufferage crap back in the 1800's, lol.
You could blame Jane Fonda some, but you wont do that because she's a woman, lol!

Only to combat the uppity insufferable crap that enough women have been dealing with from enough men for about a zillion years before the 1800's.

Let me remind you of something; Women weren't the ONLY gender who supported women's rights. MEN were AND STLL ARE involved in the movement as well.

As for making you a sandwich, if ANY man OR woman told me to "go make me a sandwich" I would glare at them. How about,"Would you PLEASE make a sandwich for me?"

 

[Mink57]

MA2444 said:
It was man's fault, he sinned knowingly whereas Eve was deceived so it wasnt held against her in divine court.

I don't agree with that at all. They both knew it was going against God. Eve committed the first sin. The reason it is called Adam's sin is because the first sin was the sin of omission by Adam. He saw her being tempted and did nothing.

Wow. Two men who don't agree. (In my best Southern accent) What eva is a po' lil' ol' woman like me supposed to do? WHO EVA do I listen to?

 

[MA2444]

Wow. Two men who don't agree. (In my best Southern accent) What eva is a po' lil' ol' woman like me supposed to do? WHO EVA do I listen to?

Hey faking a southern accent is the equivilent of striking a pose online. So there!
Should I sak again? Why do women do that?!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I realized why God so passionately wants us to obey him. It's not that he is a merciless tyrant. It has to do with the expression, "they don't have eyes to see or ears to hear." For the @VictoryinJesus's of the world, this is not literally the case but a figurative expression. It means their mind (spirit, if you will) is closed to the truth.

I also understand why God wants us to obey Him. For it is not for His profit, but for our profit. Who does that? You say “they don’t have eyes to see, or ears to hear” is figurative, yet compare it to the same as Spirit which is Life. I don’t know about you but figurative is figurative …Shakespeare uses figurative language, but Shakespeares use of figurative language does not give Life. That is what I don’t understand about what you say. There is a difference between figurative and Spirit. Concerning having ears to ear and eyes to see…there are blind and deaf physically, and then there is blind and deaf to the spiritual things pertaining to God. Honestly it hurts me that you keep mocking as if I struggle with “figurative”. Do I need to be a literature pro understanding figurative language to know God? Does Shakespeare require one to have eyes to see and ears to hear with? Will I be made alive if I hear Shakespeare’s voice as the authors intent?

Numbers 5 means something to me. I use to hate it thinking it was demeaning of women. Listen to it. A woman is made to drink the bitter water. It sounded like a ritual. til one night, late after a long time of being offended by Numbers 5 …I saw Christ in it where the woman is no adulterous, clean, and bears children(fruit). Seeing Christ is why this woman is saved through childbirth, and what Woman it is DID overcome my offensiveness through my muddy lens. It changed everything. I do see it connects to Romans 7. it answers how the woman is saved through childbirth. If seeing Christ in Numbers 5 and the Woman who is made clean through His birth, helped reconcile me to unto God. Should I listen to you or God? Just because you say with certainty it’s not there…that doesn’t make it true.
>below you’ll speak of headed to death
And ignore the adulterous woman which leads to death. I get it…you’ll keep teaching me about figurative language and how it’s the same as Spirit. I can write a figurative poem but that does not make it Spirit. it’s downplaying Spirit as figurative.

And the truth is this. Those who set their own path, who "don't have eyes to see or ears to hear," are literally headed for death. They just don't realize it. It is less that we are punished for our sins than BY our sins. God, our Father and Creator, established a path for our survival, He desperately wants us to live, to chose the path of life. Sadly, those who "don't have eyes to see or ears to hear" have chosen over and over and over again the path that leads to death. <sigh>