Tell me why...

[Shepherdboy]

Ok, so I'm new around here though not so new to Christian debate sites. I've been around a while and I have heard a lot of different ideas and concepts. However many ideas I have of my own, I have many more questions than plans of attack if you get my drift. So, without further ado, I present one of my most confusing topics to see if you all would have the answer to teach me.

Why, if there is a reason, do so many Christians completely condemn and reject anybody who is homosexual or lesbian? Why are so many Christians quick to push them out of their lives and out of their churches?

There's my question. No war is necessary, just looking for opinions. Go.

In Christ,
A little Shepherd boy

 

[Rex]

Because most Christians, the ones that get publicity and headlines are only christian in name.
They have taught the same to there flocks, I wouldn't worry much about it If I were you, I would be more concerned with my personal walk with the Lord.
Most churches have a mold framed for members, be concerned with the mold Jesus has for your life, He makes the changes, causes you to grow mature he may want to deal with an entirely different aspect of your life, as opposed to the pre-stamped mold your referring to.

One things for certain, when its time, He, Jesus the Lord will require of you to be Holy as He is Holy.
If not; you will end up in a miserable walk, never maturing, just like those that you described 40 years in the church and still wearing diapers.
Miserable in Christ and making those around them miserable as well.

Its a compromised life I'm referring to. Whether that is in doctrine, life, or both, the Lords grace covers it all, but He expects an active relationship
which means your being transformed into the His image. Not necessarily the image of your church and its members.

So don't put a lot of stock in people that don't extend the grace of the Lord to others, chances are they have never received it themselves.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Ok, so I'm new around here though not so new to Christian debate sites. I've been around a while and I have heard a lot of different ideas and concepts. However many ideas I have of my own, I have many more questions than plans of attack if you get my drift. So, without further ado, I present one of my most confusing topics to see if you all would have the answer to teach me.

Why, if there is a reason, do so many Christians completely condemn and reject anybody who is homosexual or lesbian? Why are so many Christians quick to push them out of their lives and out of their churches?

There's my question. No war is necessary, just looking for opinions. Go.

In Christ,
A little Shepherd boy

Good question! Generally the "beam in their own eye". Rex had a great answer and his last line summed it up beautifully.

Several years ago, I had a lesbian couple as neighbors. 2 great gals. One was a fire fighter and the other a nurse. They had crazy working schedules and in the midst of it all decided to remodel their kitchen. ANYHOW...needless to say, with their schedules their kitchen was out of commission for several months. I am a chef by trade and one day I felt God tell me i needed to do something to help relieve their burden...so I made them several freezer meals that would be easy for them to toss in the microwave. They were so grateful for that small effort on my part and is was Christian witness they had never seen before. I actually lost 2 "christian" friends over it but I was obedient to my calling and it was their choice to move on. I don't regret it at all...extended grace! Love that one, Rex!

 

[Angelina]

Hi Shepherdboy!

A good question indeed. I have a few friends who are gay/homosexual who are not Christians. They are my friends because I like them and hope to influence them in my walk with God. They also know that I am a Christian and have no issues with that as long as I don't go pushing Christianity down their throat. I also have other non-Christian friends whom I see, as basically in the same category.

There are two kinds of people in this world. The saved and the unsaved. If we stick to those who believe only ...we would never be usable in fulfilling the "Great Commission" Matthew 28:19 or be a representative of Jesus on this earth 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 as the bible states...we Christians have been entrusted with the message of reconciliation...[salvation of souls through Jesus work on the cross]...we would never be able to do that if we throw outta our lives, the very people that Jesus died for... :huh:

Bless ya!

 

[Hezekiah]

Most all the churches I've attended (and over my 68 years of living in many different states, there have been quite a few I've attended) teach that homosexuality is a sin. Most churches teach that Christians are to hate the sin but love the sinner. That's for any sin and any sinner. We all sin.

That said, there is the matter of human nature.

We have a few formerly convicted child molesters residing in my immediate area. I will admit that I am wary when one of these comes around where my little grandchildren are playing.

The church folks are not supposed to condemn you or harass you, but human nature will sometimes prevail in spite of our good intentions.
You'll probably just have to live with it. You can't change everyone, maybe a few.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Most all the churches I've attended (and over my 68 years of living in many different states, there have been quite a few I've attended) teach that homosexuality is a sin. Most churches teach that Christians are to hate the sin but love the sinner. That's for any sin and any sinner. We all sin.

That said, there is the matter of human nature.

We have a few formerly convicted child molesters residing in my immediate area. I will admit that I am wary when one of these comes around where my little grandchildren are playing.

The church folks are not supposed to condemn you or harass you, but human nature will sometimes prevail in spite of our good intentions.
You'll probably just have to live with it. You can't change everyone, maybe a few.

Um...there is a huge difference between displaying Gods love to someone that is gay/lesbian and protecting your grandchildren from a convicted child molester.

 

[Groundzero]

Ok, so I'm new around here though not so new to Christian debate sites. I've been around a while and I have heard a lot of different ideas and concepts. However many ideas I have of my own, I have many more questions than plans of attack if you get my drift. So, without further ado, I present one of my most confusing topics to see if you all would have the answer to teach me.

Why, if there is a reason, do so many Christians completely condemn and reject anybody who is homosexual or lesbian? Why are so many Christians quick to push them out of their lives and out of their churches?

There's my question. No war is necessary, just looking for opinions. Go.

In Christ,
A little Shepherd boy

I would be a bit cautious when saying so many Christians do that. Because quite alot of Christians actually accept it, and say that it's not a sin to be homosexual.
Yes, there are those in the other camp as well, but they're not quite as prevalent as alot of people like to make out.

I would have to say it depends on what lens you are looking through. The homosexuals have long taken an 'underdog' stance, that they are being the ones bullied, but please, if you have the time, look through the news, see what happens. Christians are ripped off every day, and well, if we say anything about it, hey, we've gotta be tolerant. Who is really being harassed?

Don't get me wrong. I know there are Christians out there who have attitudes that are wrong, but ultimately, when one is faced by homosexuals who MILITANTLY push their views in every area, in schools, in politics, in advertising, in media, it's inevitable that a clash will break out. Please note, i said militantly. I have homosexual friends who keep to themselves. I'm fine with that. But the moment you push for homosexual marriage, start pushing homosexual views on other people, etc, you can be guaranteed that I won't stay lying down for long.

 

[Dan57]

Why, if there is a reason, do so many Christians completely condemn and reject anybody who is homosexual or lesbian? Why are so many Christians quick to push them out of their lives and out of their churches?

I don't think most Christians condemn homosexuals, they just believe homosexuality is a sin. Not endorsing a life style is not condemnation. I personally tell people to read the bible and interpret it for themselves, because what I think doesn't matter, what God said is all they ought to be concerned with. (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:25-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:9-10)

 

[Butch5]

Um...there is a huge difference between displaying Gods love to someone that is gay/lesbian and protecting your grandchildren from a convicted child molester.

Is one condemnation ok and one not?

 

[THE Gypsy]

Is one condemnation ok and one not?

No.

 

[Hezekiah]

Um...there is a huge difference between displaying Gods love to someone that is gay/lesbian and protecting your grandchildren from a convicted child molester.

Plese take note that I said the child molesters had been previously convicted. This should mean that they had paid their debt to society.

Also, I don't see any distinction in the Ten Commandments for sin. Stealing, bearing false witness, covetness, adultry, and even murder are all prohibited with no distinction given as to punishment.

We also have this:

Rev_21:8


But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Where is the distinction here as to the degree or duration of punishment?

You have proven my point about human nature.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Yor are comparing apples to oranges to support your position. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

To compare homosexuality with child molestation is one of the grandest forms of bigotry to ever hit the world stage.

Plese take note that I said the child molesters had been previously convicted. This should mean that they had paid their debt to society.

Convicted or not they are child molesters. While they may well have "paid their debt to society" it is irrelevant. Unless they truly have the redemptive blood of Christ pulsing through their veins, odds are, while they may have spent some time in prison, they have not been healed and will continue with their behavior.

God protects his however nowhere does he tell us to check our brains at the throne. If I stand in front of a speeding train and claim Gods protection I WILL become engine paint. Same with the kiddies...you leave them alone with a child molester...engine paint.

Also, I don't see any distinction in the Ten Commandments for sin. Stealing, bearing false witness, covetness, adultry, and even murder are all prohibited with no distinction given as to punishment.

I haven't either. However, I fail to see your point.

We also have this:

Rev_21:8


But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Where is the distinction here as to the degree or duration of punishment?

And?

As far as "distinction" see above.

You have proven my point about human nature

Whatever that means.

 

[Hezekiah]

Gypsey. Go back to the original post. The OP asked why Christians were so against homosexuality.
I responded by saying that they had been taught to hate the sin and love the sinner.
I realize it must be complicated but what I tried to point out that if one believes homosexuality is a sin then according to the Bible all sin is sin and that there are
no provisions or duration of punishment given to distinguise the sin of lying from the sin of murder.
I am sorry if you cannot accept that.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Gypsey. Go back to the original post. The OP asked why Christians were so against homosexuality.
I responded by saying that they had been taught to hate the sin and love the sinner.
I realize it must be complicated but what I tried to point out that if one believes homosexuality is a sin then according to the Bible all sin is sin and that there are
no provisions or duration of punishment given to distinguise the sin of lying from the sin of murder.
I am sorry if you cannot accept that.

Not sure what exactly there is to "accept". I didn't say anything about "distinction of sin" you keep talking about.

 

[Hezekiah]

Gypsy,

Come on now. You made the distinction yourself. You said:

To compare homosexuality with child molestation is one of the grandest forms of bigotry to ever hit the world stage.

It is man and man's laws that make disctions. As I was apparently unable to point out to you, according to the Bible, God makes no distinction concerning sin.
Man makes one sin of greater consequence than another. Is this so hard to see?

God bless

 

[THE Gypsy]

Gypsy,

Come on now. You made the distinction yourself. You said:

To compare homosexuality with child molestation is one of the grandest forms of bigotry to ever hit the world stage.

It is man and man's laws that make disctions. As I was apparently unable to point out to you, according to the Bible, God makes no distinction concerning sin.

God bless

Sorry...YOU are the one that compared the two.

Gypsy,

Man makes one sin of greater consequence than another. Is this so hard to see?

God bless

I still don't see your point. Seems more like a red herring since that was not mentioned or discussed except by you.

Oh well.

 

[Shepherdboy]

Ok, first things first: To Gypsy and Hezekiah
Guys, guys. We are on the same team here. Remember? We are all in the blood of Christ. For the argument you two are going off of, there should be a difference in showing God's love and protecting. In Jude it talks about reaching into the fire and how NOT to get burned because of it. Basic idea, and I'm sure you both know this, it is about saving others and how not to get any contamination on you from it. It is fine to take precautions but that certainly doesn't mean you abandon them. I wouldn't want to be around some of my more 'worldly' friends without a Christian companion around simply because I know myself; I would fall to their sin. Now, I'm not sure if the comparison works but with the child molester concept there is nothing wrong with trying to protect your kids, at least, in my opinion. But you still have to love the molester as Christ would and treat him as you would want to be treated. Does that make sense? All the same, not the real topic here.

To all who replied with the basic idea "Only Christian in name" or "They really don't understand what Christ would have wanted":
You all make a lot of sense. I would agree that a lot of Christians would put sin attached to homosexuals and thus (because it is obviously such a TERRIBLE sin) kinda excommunicate them. Thanks for the input!

To ZebraHug: I understand Christians are ripped all the time. I totally understand that. The whole Chik-fil-a gig showed that quite well. However, honestly, it would still be a problem if only ONE Christian group kicked out gays just because they felt like it because that in tale usually puts people like you and I in the accusing lot. So, I don't plan to take a holier than thou attitude and say "Oh, SO many of you do this..." but rather I want to know why my Christian family would ever want to turn someone away from the name of Christ.

To all: The question is a little bit personal, and I'd like to find a good remedy if possible. No, I'm not homosexual but I have a good friend who is and he was knocked out of his youth group not because anybody told him to leave, but because the attitude of the church was so condemning in general that he just assumed they would hate him. He left shortly thereafter. So, in my mind, it is kinda like the scene in the movie Cars when Lightning McQueen mutters something about "rusty old cars" in front of his newly made friend Mater. Mater replies "What's wrong with rusty old cars?" since he is one and that kind of hurt his feelings. Lightning quickly makes amends by saying "Not like you Mater! I like you." So, I want to know why people only look at the stereotypical instead of looking at the face of someone they could care for as a brother or sister in the name of Christ. That's why I want to know why. I want to know why because I have friends who won't go to church because they find my family condemning... which, sometimes we are.

 

[Hezekiah]

That's what I've been trying to get across. Sin is sin. Period. Therhe is no difference in the child molester and the homosexual if one has been taught that both sins are wrong.
The difference is in our eyes and in our laws.

As far as your solution, I have no answer. People are human. They are not perfect.

It is like the other poster said though. If the homosexual community didn't take such an "in your face" attitude, it might make the transition easier for them.

Personally, I find any form of homosexuality totally repulsive. Do I have friends who are homosexuals? Yes. My friends though do not attempt to force their lifestyle upon me.

It gets bad here in Pensacola once a year when the homosexuals come from all over for a three day frolic on our beaches. A guy can't hardly walk by a group of them without being subjected to wolf-whistles and vulgar remarks. This too, is totally uncalled for. Perhaps a little self-examination is in order before a homosexual starts crying "victim"?

 

[Rex]

To find some common ground I think we could all agree that
some peoples "sin" is more dangerous "physically" than others.

 

[THE Gypsy]

To all: The question is a little bit personal, and I'd like to find a good remedy if possible. No, I'm not homosexual but I have a good friend who is and he was knocked out of his youth group not because anybody told him to leave, but because the attitude of the church was so condemning in general that he just assumed they would hate him. He left shortly thereafter. So, in my mind, it is kinda like the scene in the movie Cars when Lightning McQueen mutters something about "rusty old cars" in front of his newly made friend Mater. Mater replies "What's wrong with rusty old cars?" since he is one and that kind of hurt his feelings. Lightning quickly makes amends by saying "Not like you Mater! I like you." So, I want to know why people only look at the stereotypical instead of looking at the face of someone they could care for as a brother or sister in the name of Christ. That's why I want to know why. I want to know why because I have friends who won't go to church because they find my family condemning... which, sometimes we are.

A situation within the church is a little different that simply being a kind, loving witness to someone on the outside.

Virtually all Christian circles consider homosexuality a sin...and rightfully so. If someone were to come to church drunk every meeting, eventually one or more of the elders would let that person know it was not acceptable behavior and point out the scriptures to support their admonishment and to instruct the offender. Same if someone was stealing from the congregation when they came to church...any repeated sin would be treated as such and that is not setting in judgement it is following the guidance outlined in the scriptures.

In our everyday life, we are not to be judge and jury of the unsaved or struggling brother or sister. It is a different and unique situation to be in a position of displaying Gods love to these people.

It is a good thing he wasn't "kicked out". That is a hard burden to bear for some and can even lead to suicide. That is also in the plus column of your church. It is sad he feels "they would hate him". Do you know why he feels that way? Did someone say something to that effect to him?

Having said all that...you have been chosen, and blessed, to be in the life of this young man. It will take time on your knees seeking guidance from God on how best to relate to him because only God knows the true intent and fragility of your friends heart. It can be not only trying, but dangerous ground to be on outside of Gods grace and guidance.


Oh...BTW...Admonishment accepted. Sorry to derail your topic. I just have a VERY hard time when anyone compares homosexuality with child molestation. I have had too many gay people in my life that were basically good, upstanding, people and on the flip side...way to many victims of child abuse. I have felt their pain, shared their tears and witnessed the devastation this has caused in their lives. The two situations are NOT comparable by any stretch of the imagination and that is a real hot button for me. I shall make an effort to contain my rage.