The Beast Revelation

[William Barton]

No, the mark is a worldwide acceptance of the Beat/Antichrist ans Messiah. NOt all will die who do nt receive the mark. the bible is clear there will be survivors.

IMO:
Mark of the beast is on the hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16). He rules in the Middle East, he does not rule the world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Why should I? I already explained. Now you need to prove that the beasts, horns heads, and lamb are literal. Clearly you failed.

I shall use your own words- why should I? the Bible says they are real, that is good enough reason for me. Once again why shouold we accept you ropinion over the Inspired Word of God?

LOL!!! That is not how it works. God gives us the understanding by comparing Scripture with Scripture. Not turning symbols into literal to fit your false doctrine. Silly you.

God defines teh symbols and somewhere down the line, they must turn into literal something--silly you! teh bible is not a book of fiction

Huh? You do not make any sense.

Well you accused me of being brainwashed and I agree, Jesus washed my brain and cleansed the dirt as He continues to do!

I never asked anyone to believe me. I am not presenting myself as the authority—I am simply a witness testifying to what I believe the Word of God teaches. The question is not whether you should believe me; the question is whether you will examine the Scriptures and seek the truth of God’s Word.

Truth is not determined by a popularity contest or by counting how many interpretations exist. Many voices can disagree, but that does not make all interpretations equally correct. Jesus Himself said that those who have ears to hear should hear (Matthew 11:15).

Whether you receive it or reject it is not ultimately between you and me—it is between you and God. Spiritual truths are discerned spiritually (1 Corinthians 2:14). If someone refuses to see what Scripture reveals, no amount of argument will open their eyes. That is not my decision to make; it is a matter of the heart before God.

It is the way you wword things that make you appear to be some kind of teacher. but I have been down that allegorical road decades ago. It never works out because too many allegorists disagree with each other and they all as you claim to be a witness.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Mark of the beast is on the hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16).

Correct. Teh Greek word makes it absolutely clear it is a physical mark.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Correct. Teh Greek word makes it absolutely clear it is a physical mark.

If you insist that the mark must be physical then the beast in the same context must be a physical animal that comes out of the land called Europe. Let me know if you find the animal with two horns like a lamb.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:

o. "Mark of the Beast" is a chip implantation, like the chip on your credit card. I suspect people may not be allowed to buy food and other necessities without the mark.

o. "Beast from the abyss" is a fallen angel who was implanted into the earth when Jesus was resurrected.

o. Satan will be similarly implanted into the earth when Jesus returns (Revelation 20:1-3).

 

[William Barton]

No, the mark is a worldwide acceptance of the Beat/Antichrist ans Messiah. NOt all will die who do nt receive the mark. the bible is clear there will be survivors.

IMO:
The authority of the Beast is not worldwide, rather his authority is Middle Eastern.

Greek γη in Revelation 13:8 is typically translated "earth," which is correct in the sense of "land" (e.g. "farmer tills the earth"), but not correct in the sense of "planet earth." There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you insist that the mark must be physical then the beast in the same context must be a physical animal that comes out of the land called Europe. Let me know if you find the animal with two horns like a lamb.

False comparison. God specifically defined the beast as a man. Just like we know the symbol of the dragon is satan for God showed us in HIs Word that is what the dragon meant. You are too stiff and myopic in looking at symbols

As for the mark (charagma) it is defined as a brand and placed on teh forehead or right hand. There is no warrant for it being symbolic.

Sorry for teh delay in answering. I was hospitalized with double pneumonia, hypoxia and sepsis.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

IMO:
The authority of the Beast is not worldwide, rather his authority is Middle Eastern.

Greek γη in Revelation 13:8 is typically translated "earth," which is correct in the sense of "land" (e.g. "farmer tills the earth"), but not correct in the sense of "planet earth." There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.

Yes there was a concept of planet earth, though not as clearly understood as today. You must remember this is God inspiring the writer and not the person themself.

The fact that it says all the armies of the earth, that end times mentions, the mid east, Russia Asia and possibly England (all of these were known in biblical times).

The fact this is the time right before the Lord Jesus physically returns and all people will see Him, and that this is the ultimate battle between good and evil gives all the evidence that the antichrist rules the world. all we need do is to look at Daniel 2 and seven and see this is a global event.

 

[William Barton]

Sorry for the delay in answering. I was hospitalized with double pneumonia, hypoxia and sepsis.

Very sorry about your illness, so glad you have recovered!

 

[William Barton]

It is the way you word things that make you appear to be some kind of teacher. but I have been down that allegorical road decades ago. It never works out because too many allegorists disagree with each other and they all as you claim to be a witness.

The text is somewhat symbolic, so that only the wise will understand (Daniel 12:10). Hence we must ask ourselves," Am I wise?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The text is somewhat symbolic, so that only the wise will understand (Daniel 12:10).

Hence we must ask ourselves,
"Am I wise?"

Yes I am, I have the wisdom of Christ. Yes there are symbols, but once again, Gods Word defines Gods symbols. So we do not have to rely on feelings, supposed revelations or whispers and chirpings to know the definitions.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Very sorry about your illness, so glad you have recovered!

Well I am in recovery mode now. I have full breathing again, but I am suffering tremdous exhaustion. This is the second trime in five months I have had this trifecta of illness and this time it has really taken alot out of me.

 

[William Barton]

Yes I am, I have the wisdom of Christ. Yes there are symbols, but once again, Gods Word defines Gods symbols. So we do not have to rely on feelings, supposed revelations or whispers and chirpings to know the definitions.

IMO:
Christian scholars have differing understanding of Biblical prophecy:

1. Idealism
They are made-up stories, not to be understood literally.

2. Historicism
It's church history.

3. Preterism
The events have already occurred.

4. Futurism
The events in Revelation 4-22 are yet future.

My understanding is Futurism.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

IMO:
Christian scholars have differing understanding of Biblical prophecy:

1. Idealism
They are made-up stories, not to be understood literally.

2. Historicism
It's church history.

3. Preterism
The events have already occurred.

4. Futurism
The events in Revelation 4-22 are yet future.

My understanding is Futurism.

Well in your listings, you can count me a futurist as well. A look at history shows the prophecies are unfulfilled. Preterists and amillennialists have to do much allegorizing and reinterpreting to seek to justify their positions.

 

[William Barton]

Yes there was a concept of planet earth, though not as clearly understood as today. You must remember this is God inspiring the writer and not the person themself.

The fact that it says all the armies of the earth, that end times mentions, the mid east, Russia Asia and possibly England (all of these were known in biblical times).

The fact this is the time right before the Lord Jesus physically returns and all people will see Him, and that this is the ultimate battle between good and evil gives all the evidence that the antichrist rules the world. all we need do is to look at Daniel 2 and seven and see this is a global event.

Ronald Nolette noted:
<Yes there was a concept of planet earth>
IMO:
There is no way anyone could have known the earth is spherical. If you disagree then I invite you to cite your reference.

Your quotes about "earth" are English translations of Greek γη = "land."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald Nolette noted:
<Yes there was a concept of planet earth>
IMO:
There is no way anyone could have known the earth is spherical. If you disagree then I invite you to cite your reference.

Your quotes about "earth" are English translations of Greek γη = "land."

As I said, there concept was much different than ours. they did not know all about far away continents. Though they did know of Pangea. IN Genesis it speaks of the time the earth was divided during Pelegs time. There was a super continent and we simply do not know how much of that super continent was explored pre flood. Gone till Tuesday.

 

[William Barton]

As I said, there concept was much different than ours. they did not know all about far away continents. Though they did know of Pangea. IN Genesis it speaks of the time the earth was divided during Pelegs time. There was a super continent and we simply do not know how much of that super continent was explored pre flood. Gone till Tuesday.

IMO:
The early population was scattered by *linguistic* division (Genesis 10:25), not by earth movement.

The current earth is the result of the breaking up of Pangaea, killing all but the seven people on the ark. We are all their ancestors. (Genesis chapters 6-9).

There is no way the people could have known about a global earth. In fact there are people today who do not know the earth is a globe..

The breaking up of the earth (Pangaea), exposing "springs of the great deep," caused the flood (Genesis 7:11).

The people did not explore other continents, there were no other..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

IMO:
The early population was scattered by *linguistic* division (Genesis 10:25), not by earth movement.

The current earth is the result of the breaking up of Pangaea, killing all but seven people on the ark. We are all their ancestors. (Genesis chapters 6-9).

There is no way the people could have known about a global earth. In fact there are people today who do not know the earth is round.

Yes the worlds population was scattered by language, then during teh days oof Peleg, pangaia was broken up.

JOb, which is the oldest book of the bible, God speaks of the circle or orb of the earth.

 

[William Barton]

Job, which is the oldest book of the bible, God speaks of the circle or orb of the earth.

IMO:
Job 26:7, Hebrew חוג = "horizon." The ancients saw ships disappear over the horizon. That does not equate to a circular planet earth.

 

[William Barton]

Yes I am, I have the wisdom of Christ. Yes there are symbols, but once again, Gods Word defines Gods symbols. So we do not have to rely on feelings, supposed revelations or whispers and chirpings to know the definitions.

IMO "mind of Christ" (1Corinthians 2:16) indicates "on the right path," not omniscience. See Philippians 3:12-14.