The Bible is only a shadow

[Apocalypticist]

http://precatholicfaith.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-bible-is-shadow-allegory-of-cave.html

This article discusses how the Bible is a shadow, an effect. It is the effect of what God spoke. Therefore, the truest and most perfect Word of God, in its purest form, was as God spoke it.

"Revelation is predicated on the co-operation of the Holy Spirit, the autographs, the manuscripts, the translations, the translating committees, finally the optic nerve, the co-operation of the neurological structures, and lastly, the rational mind in comprehending it. Which of these stages is the Word (or is the Word in its purest state), or at what stage does it cease to be the Word? Only in the primary stage could it be 'breathed' (the Word). But then, everything which follows is merely a shadow. If this series of functions fail, then you have a resultant misunderstanding as to what the Bible says, or was intended to say, and the person arrives at a conclusion or interpretation at odds with the original intent."

So the Bible should not be made an idol. It should only be valued as a reflection, if sometimes an imperfect reflection, of God's word.

This also suggests, because shadows do not reflect most perfectly the things whose outlines they portray, that the Bible might possibly have errors. Because at any point in the strand of things could the co-operation fail, someone drops the ball. But the Bible still functions as the Revelation, what is valuable for all people in all places at all times. And errors are not as harmful as we think. They help us be reminded of the God whom we need.

 

[veteran]

God's Word as given to the English speaking peoples through the KJV is good enough. We don't need literary scientists to tell us that we should heed it only with a grain of salt, as if it has some small relation to what God actually said.

The proof of what I'm saying is with all the Bible archaeological discoveries that have taken place over the centuries, confirming that we can not only trust Holy Writ morally and spiritually, but in scientific matters and history also.

Now there does exist a group of men on this earth today that would love nothing more than to fool the believer into taking God's Holy Writ with a grain of salt, even to the point of treating it only as interesting literature. Among those include some men that think God speaks through them, and that we should instead listen to them instead of God's Holy Writ. Those are false prophets, and their end is coming soon.

 

[williemac]

God gave five gifts to the church. These are Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers. They all have the same purpose, which is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. Timothy was one of these. He was told to do the work of an evangelist. If one were to look in a concordance, he would find that the word "doctrine" is found more times in the letters to Timothy than all the rest of the bible.

When we examine the work and ministry of Timothy, it should become clear enough that the church at large is mis-using the word "evangelist". (in my humble opinion).

The modern day equivalent to evangelism is what is called apologetic(s).

Here is my observation: The ability to learn, understand, and teach doctrine is not universal. It is a gift. It is both ordained and anointed by God Himself. One look around sites like this should remove all doubt.

I would say that whatever perceived limitations exist due to translation issues, have not blindsided God. In the first place, the real and vital essentials are not hidden. But the enemy has the agenda to introduce what Paul called "leaven" into our midst. Finding truth is not all that difficult. Mixing it with error or contradicting ideas is where the fun really begins for Satan. He can diminish the effectiveness of truth in the heart by merely adding contrary data into the same heart.

I know this by experience. But one does not realize it until the leaven is identified and removed through understanding. (purify your hearts, you double minded...James 4:8). Purify: to remove contamination

Are there real anointed evangelists in our midst? Undoubtedly. However, it seems that there is a power struggle for the position.

I think the majority of the problem is not the issues regarding translation. I think it lies in identifying just who is anointed by God to teach unleavened truth. And how do we overcome that hurdle? I would guess that prayer is a good start.

 

[veteran]

God gave five gifts to the church. These are Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers. They all have the same purpose, which is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. Timothy was one of these. He was told to do the work of an evangelist. If one were to look in a concordance, he would find that the word "doctrine" is found more times in the letters to Timothy than all the rest of the bible.

Apostle Paul also commented on Timothy being raised in The Faith by his mother and grandmother, and that from a child he knew the Holy Scriptures (2 Timothy). Paul also admonished Timothy to study to show himself approved of God, becoming a workman, and that's about becoming learned in God's Holy Writ.

Thus the matter is not just about heeding doctrinal matters that Apostle Paul explained to Timothy, but also the idea of staying in God's Holy Writ itself. Paul himself did, so none should expect that to have changed for Timothy nor anyone else in leadership of the Church.

When we examine the work and ministry of Timothy, it should become clear enough that the church at large is mis-using the word "evangelist". (in my humble opinion).

The modern day equivalent to evangelism is what is called apologetic(s).

That kind of thinking is like trying to change the simple definition of what the two words evangelism and apologetics mean. Evangelism is specifically about spreading The Gospel Message of Jesus Christ unto one's Salvation. Apologetics is especially about supplying a defense of The Gospel. Those are two different ideas, because the need for defense of The Gospel only becomes necessary in light of those who try to subvert it. There still are places in the world where The Gospel is being preached to those who have not heard without the need to defend it at the same time.

Here is my observation: The ability to learn, understand, and teach doctrine is not universal. It is a gift. It is both ordained and anointed by God Himself. One look around sites like this should remove all doubt.

With that I must agree. It is up to our Heavenly Father and His Son whom He chooses, and also give understanding to those who ask Him. Yet that does not mean only a 'few' in the Church can have that. Our Lord Jesus said to knock and it shall be opened, which is about seeking His Truth through Him, and not through any man or religious organizational system of men. A leader in Christ's Church that does not actually attempt to 'educate' the congregation within God's Word, so as to help them understand for theirselves, is not really fulfilling the duties of their chosen office for Christ. This point goes back to what Apostle Paul told Timothy regarding study of The Word to become a "workman" in it.

This is one of the main problems in today's Churches, many leaders don't think they have the responsibility to actually teach members 'how' to study for themselves in God's Holy Writ, but instead dream up their own messages from a verse or two and expect the congregation to accept that as understanding in God's Word. What that really is, is the fragments idea our Lord Jesus warned His disciples and us about, the idea He taught about the traditions of men.

I would say that whatever perceived limitations exist due to translation issues, have not blindsided God. In the first place, the real and vital essentials are not hidden. But the enemy has the agenda to introduce what Paul called "leaven" into our midst. Finding truth is not all that difficult. Mixing it with error or contradicting ideas is where the fun really begins for Satan. He can diminish the effectiveness of truth in the heart by merely adding contrary data into the same heart.

And just how... is that prevented from happening? Simple. Cover God's Holy Writ to the congregation line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little, just as God revealed in Isaiah 28. God showed there that by not... doing it that way, His Word becomes a stumbling, a snare and a trap. Some think the Jews were doing that kind of coverage of God's Word that made them stumble, but the opposite is actually true. They were instead creating their 'own' system of religious traditions outside of God's Holy Writ, and that's how the 'leaven' works.

Line upon line, chapter by chapter coverage in ALL of God's Word to the congregation helps prevent the 'leaven' from sneaking in. By that method the congregation begin to get a larger view of what God's Holy Writ actually says, instead of what some preacher who only covers a small section says. The congregation becomes stronger in The Faith with that kind of line upon line coverage of all of It. They become more knowledgable, and 'hear' more of what God has to say for us. One of the problems with this method today is not enough preachers today are disciplined in all of God's Word enough to do it this way, but that's the measuring rule to help weed out the hirelings that only preach for wheat and barley and will run when the wolves come after Christ's sheep (John 10).

I know this by experience. But one does not realize it until the leaven is identified and removed through understanding. (purify your hearts, you double minded...James 4:8). Purify: to remove contamination

Are there real anointed evangelists in our midst? Undoubtedly. However, it seems that there is a power struggle for the position.

I think the majority of the problem is not the issues regarding translation. I think it lies in identifying just who is anointed by God to teach unleavened truth. And how do we overcome that hurdle? I would guess that prayer is a good start.

Prayer and asking God's help is also the very first step. Real discipline is the next.

If I were put in charge of teaching a congregation God's Word, with understanding, I would firstly commend those who have their Bibles open and ready to cover all of It chapter by chapter, line upon line, just as Apostle Paul did with those at Berea that verified for theirselves from Scripture as to what he was preaching. An honest coverage of all of God's Word will take up around 4 to 5 years. It takes discipline and refusal to heed the seminary leanings to not do it that way. After a while when enough people hear about coverage of God's Word that way, they will come from all over, no problem filling up the pews with believers that actually want to know what God's Word actually teaches. For those who don't want that, let them continue to go to the churches where they can dance and play with putting God's Holy Writ on the back burner.

 

[horsecamp]

Matthew 24:35
The earth and the heavens will disappear, but my words will never disappear.

 

[Angelina]

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’”
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.