The Color of Righteousness

[ProDeo]

Hi Biblica
I must say that I do see some problems with your statements.

I'll address two that I read above...
you could reply or not - I have no desire for an argument but only discussion.

I agree with you that some become transformed overnight and for some it takes some time.
I just don't believe the expression CARNAL CHRISTIAN is a correct understanding of this fact.

Paul wrote to his BRETHREN in the following:

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

Paul is reprimanding the brethren.

Verse 1 He could not speak to them as to SPIRITUAL men...
but as men OF FLESH.
Paul always refers to the flesh as being against God.

Verse 2 These brethren are still not able to receive solid food.

Verse 3 Why? Because they are still fleshly....and thus they are walking like mere men instead of spiritual men.


Galatians 5:17
17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

John speaks about sinning, but not living in sin...1 John 3:9

Maybe the correct way to say this would be to say that a Christian still sins...
but he cannot live in sin?



As to judging...not to make this post too long...
if you read, for instance, Matthew 18, you'll find that we MUST judge.


Matthew 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

If we can know if someone is sinning...
are we not judging them?

You spoke well, with good Scripture passages. Racism is a serious sin. We have an obligation to address it.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’

Matt 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

 

[Biblica]

OK...this goes back to what I was saying in a previous post.
We are all carnal when we come to God.

The point that both Jesus and John make is that we cannot remain that way.
This is why Paul is warning the Corinthians....telling them that they cannot REMAIN babes in Christ.

Jesus said that not those that cry LORD, LORD will see heaven but those that do the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

My point about John is this:

1 John 3:9
9 No * one who is born of God practices sin,

In 1 John chapter 1 he states that we all sin and must confess our sins.
In 1 John chapter 3 he states that we cannot CONTINUE in sin.


What I'm saying is that there's no such animal as a carnal Christian....

There IS Christians that still sin...as we all do....
but no Christian can LIVE IN SIN....which is what a carnal Christian would be.

I'm objecting to this designation....NOT your overall theology.

I'm going to start a thread on this.
I'll tag you in.




I agree.
Jesus said we will be judged as we judge....He meant in a self-righteous way.
We are told that if we bring a brother BACK INTO THE FOLD, we have saved his soul.

James 5:19-20
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

I agree with you, I have been teaching this myself for years. No one who willfully, deliberately and continuously sins has know God as John says, and these people have never been saved in the first place. There is a difference between carnal in that respect and a sincere Christian that is battling their flesh and still may have some carnality in them, which will be fully removed when the Lord returns. Any believer can still get a carnal thought, may react in unwarranted anger in some situations, that is carnal behavior. We are all being conformed into Jesus' image and that is a process. It is not the same thing as what the apostle John is describing. The problem is, that when we relegate the word carnal to just people we deem as those in the camp John describes, we miss the fact that we all need to monitor ourselves for carnality which is inherent in human nature. Which is my point, we can all be carnal at times and still be saved as we are striving to be led fully by the Holy Spirit which is a life long process.