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The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by herald, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    I We have to look at the growth of some churches. Sda hav not grown nearly as much as First ass of God. Do you think the sabbath has any thing to do with it? The Sdas preach the gospel too, but you hear the sabbath louder than the gospel most of the time. The new testement has something to say about arguing over the law. The law divides and the gospel and love bring people together.This is why I have kept myself from from bringing the sabbath up. It doesnt seem to bring people to God.
     
  2. Jackie D

    Jackie D New Member

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    (crooner;51473)
    The law divides and the gospel and love bring people together.This is why I have kept myself from from bringing the sabbath up. It doesnt seem to bring people to God.
    none of the Law brings people to God. God brings people to God and teaches them the law through the Word and the Holy Spirit. If everyone just let it be that way there would be no argument, for He would guide us all in the right direction and man would not be found guilty of teaching wrongly about anything. We no longer need man to teach us as we have been provided with everything we need to know and do. YET there are still so many out there trying to be THE teacher.
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Agreed Jackiecrooner I just finished going over this with another member Read Isa.1What is said here ? The children are rebelling they putting all their efforts into Days,rituals,religious doctrine, Is God happy with them? No Isaiah 1:2 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against Me."God is speaking out to the entire universe, from heaven where God is, to the earth where all men are Our Father nourished them by putting the spirit in man, and his soul into His children, and then He nourished them by giving them that protection when they asked for it. Can you see God's emotions in this verse by relating it to a man who has children, and the children are growing up they become disobedient and run away from home.The children refuse to listen to or love their own father. Isaiah 1:13 "Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto Me; the new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting."God tells you right here what He thinks of all those rituals and man made traditions and customs that go against His Word. He is against these large church assemblies where the people get together and are void of His Word. They come together for their traditions, and very religious forms of meetings, and leave His Word out of their gatherings. They are an abomination in His sight. This is serious and you can see the pain that our Father has against these sessions. Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts My soul hateth: they are a trouble unto Me; I am weary to bear them."Our heavenly Father is saying He is sick of all the garbage that goes on in His name. If you want our Father's blessings, I would be very careful as to what I did with God's appointed times and new moons. Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: God tells us to remember the Sabbath which means Rest where are we to rest our Faith our love our trust? In Jesus Christ we are never to forget that. Sabbath was never once mentioned in scripture as a Day of worshipGod plain doesnt care what Day you go to church. What he cares about is where you Rest your heart. There were no days of the week when he told us this even the Jews argued when the Sabbath Day was. The fact they finally settled on Saturday means little it was based on Lunar calender(that is the Moon) You are to remember the Sabbath because in the new covenant Christ fulfilled the Law,of the Day making it himself. I know people argue this but its true He tells us so in col. He iis your Rest your Sabbath EveryDay This is What Day you are to remeber Every Day.
     
  4. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    Kriss I couldnt agree more. The law divides. We have to look at grace and faith.The SDA has had conflicts and divisions over this for years. I do understand rightousness by faith very clearly because of it. Good point.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I believe you do crooner I think its the same with so many denominations God hates our mens traditions,our religious rituals, I think as long as we keep our eyes on whats important We will be fineWe just need to take the fellowship and good things our churches give us. And where they fall short be aware of it, not blindly follow along, When we stand before God saying my church said it was OK isnt going to get it, We have to take responsability for our own spiritual state. No church,tradition, or rituals of men will put you in good standing withthe Lord, Only the state of your faith and heart will do that. So attened your churchs take the good they offer you and where they fall short turn to your father and his Words.
     
  6. GmamaZ

    GmamaZ New Member

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    I have noticed in the NT that we are not commanded to Holy days.. But we are commanded to be Holy for our Father is Holy. So one would think that it takes a every minute of the day reasoning that we are to always keep our eyes on Jesus and not just one day of the week..
     
  7. Geshem

    Geshem New Member

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    I think it is unfortunate that so many of today's believers see the Torah as divisive. That must grieve our G-d, Who is the Author. But I do think that the reasons it appears to some to divide is (1) some don't want to observe it and (2) those who do observe it tend to come across as pushy and belligerent. On both parts, to me, that is so sad.I am somewhat new here, having signed in some months ago but only today to have written my first posts, but bluntly, I am a bit turned off. All who are true believers are family in the L-rd, according to the Bible, but we're not acting like loving family members -- more like the spoiled brats of the family.I love Torah. I love Sabbath, the festivals, and the life-lessons and guidance these teach, but I don't like the judgmentalism and pushiness from both sides of the issue. I know -- I'm new, I probably should not have said this, and I will likely pay for it. But there it is.
     
  8. GmamaZ

    GmamaZ New Member

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    The Law is the ministry of death.2Co 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? 2Co 3:2 You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 2Co 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Co 3:4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 2Co 3:5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 2Co 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 2Co 3:9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 2Co 3:10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 2Co 3:11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. 2Co 3:12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 2Co 3:13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 2Co 3:15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 2Co 3:16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
     
  9. Jackie D

    Jackie D New Member

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    (Geshem;52255)
    I think it is unfortunate that so many of today's believers see the Torah as divisive. That must grieve our G-d, Who is the Author.
    I believe it grieves Him deeply. I have tried to believe that the Law was no longer something we should follow but He brings me back each and every time. Each time with a new perspective and a more diplomatic way of putting things. It IS hard sometimes though, I am a defender.... (Geshem;52255)
    But I do think that the reasons it appears to some to divide is (1) some don't want to observe it and (2) those who do observe it tend to come across as pushy and belligerent. On both parts, to me, that is so sad.
    I agree with you, it is very sad.(Geshem;52255)
    I am somewhat new here, having signed in some months ago but only today to have written my first posts, but bluntly, I am a bit turned off. All who are true believers are family in the L-rd, according to the Bible, but we're not acting like loving family members -- more like the spoiled brats of the family.
    Well I pray for the sake of everyone involved that you will stay and help those who desire to have it. (Geshem;52255)
    I love Torah. I love Sabbath, the festivals, and the life-lessons and guidance these teach, but I don't like the judgmentalism and pushiness from both sides of the issue.
    the divisions of the house must happen...quite frankly this place and all other forums remind me of the disciples quarreling over who might sit at the right hand of Jesus...trying to out do the other in order to get that very special seat. Or simply attempting to impress man and get someone to follow along in their-half-baked, full of holes, out to please the people doctrines. That is how I see much of what goes on...but not everyone does this and those who have a great desire to learn and KNOW the truth are listening and looking and glorifying the Lord in every manner both in faith and in obedience to a Law that existed long before God put it on the stone tablets, of this we can be sure. In the beginning was the Word!!! Glory be God:the First and the Last, Beginning and End, our Father and Almighty, KING!!! (Geshem;52255)
    I know -- I'm new, I probably should not have said this, and I will likely pay for it. But there it is.
    I highly doubt you will receive ANY kind of flak from this as your words ring true and those who need to know it, know it....be blessed
     
  10. Jackie D

    Jackie D New Member

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    (GmamaZ;52293)
    The Law is the ministry of death.
    Are these YOUR words?
     
  11. crooner

    crooner New Member

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    (Geshem;52255)
    I think it is unfortunate that so many of today's believers see the Torah as divisive. That must grieve our G-d, Who is the Author. But I do think that the reasons it appears to some to divide is (1) some don't want to observe it and (2) those who do observe it tend to come across as pushy and belligerent. On both parts, to me, that is so sad.I am somewhat new here, having signed in some months ago but only today to have written my first posts, but bluntly, I am a bit turned off. All who are true believers are family in the L-rd, according to the Bible, but we're not acting like loving family members -- more like the spoiled brats of the family.I love Torah. I love Sabbath, the festivals, and the life-lessons and guidance these teach, but I don't like the judgmentalism and pushiness from both sides of the issue. I know -- I'm new, I probably should not have said this, and I will likely pay for it. But there it is.
    I dont see a problem keeping a sabbath, but arguing over the law is devisive sometimes. In Titus 3:9 it says Avoid foolish controversies and geneaogles and arguements and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Sabbath keeping can be a beautiful thing as long as people dont gload it overs that keep another day.
     
  12. Geshem

    Geshem New Member

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    Just so you will know and understand, those of us who love Torah have already heard and read all the arguments others make. Arguing is meaningless to us, as we have not just read and heard them; we have studied them, and the result for us is a closer adherence to Torah. Seeing them repeated will not change our minds regarding what G-d has said and what He has had His prophets write in His Book.Why can we not simply accept that there are those who keep Torah and those who ignore it, and let it be? For example, we could communicate like this:New Testament Believer (NTB): We had a great Christmas pageant with many Sunday school parents present. Two sets of parents who had never come before have attended for the last four Sundays and are attending our introductory classes.Torah-Keeping Believer (TKB): We have also seen the L-rd working in our synagogue through our first and last day observance of Chanukkah. A family and one young lady have been attending Sabbath services since then and they seem very serious about serving the L-rd.NTB: Does your synagogue believe in Jesus?TKB: Yes. Although we call him by what we understand is His Jewish name, we know that He is Messiah.NTB: Then we are working for the same Cause and are one family.TKB: I agree.Why not -- instead of all the fault-finding and nit-picking? Why can not each side (and indeed in its simplest form, there are sides) lift each other up in prayer rather than the constant tearing down? I guess I just don't understand. Maybe the tearing is just the nature of the internet? If so, maybe we can change it, each one starting with ourselves?
     
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