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The difference in churches

Discussion in 'The Church Forum' started by John Stefan, Mar 29, 2022.

  1. John Stefan

    John Stefan New Member

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    What is the difference between the catholic church and the ortodox church? Also from which countries do those two churches come from? And where does the Protestant church come from? And how have all of these churches evolved? Please explain all of this and I await some replies.


    kind regards John Stefan
     
  2. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    From the mind of men where some/many have turned away from God, both within the RC denomination and the protestant denominations as well.

    Within God's assembly there is only one church, but with many different flavours as the different assemblies work through the various giftings that they have been given.

    The Protestant Church came about because of the "scam" of the RC Church in the 1500's to raise money for the RC church through the selling of indulgences to their congregations for the forgiveness of their sins.

    To be considered to be a part of the protestant denominations the following three principles were required: -

    1. Scripture alone
    2. Justification by faith alone
    3. Universal priesthood of believers.​

    One of the hallmarks of the development of the Protestant movement away from the Latin Vulgate Bible was the translation of the "scriptures" into the local languages of the people so that all would be able to read the scriptures for themselves in their own language instead of having it read to them in Latin by the RC priests. It is credited to Waldo in the 1100's that the first local language translations of the Scriptures were created and this is also true of the reformation fathers as well, in that they too created local language translations for the areas of their influence.

    The "local language scriptures" had the effect of creating a unified national language at that time.

    The differentiations of the Protestant denominations tended to come out of the "reformation fathers" within their respective areas of influence and the developed theologies that grew out of their thinking.

    This is but a thumbnail ballpark of how the various denominations developed and the differences between the protestant denominations have come about.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2022
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  3. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hi John,
    The Church is catholic and orthodox by definition.

    If you are referring to particular churches:

    There was a schism with the Bishop of Alexandria circa 400 AD and that church is known as the Coptic Orthodox..

    There was another schism with the Patriarch of Constantinople circa 1050
    That church and those bishops in union with him are often known as Eastern Orthodox.

    The Bishop of Rome and those bishops in union with him continue to be recognized as the Catholic Church

    As for the protestant church, I'll leave that to otheras to try and explain, but it is not a schism as they have no episcopal authority..

    Peace be with you!
     
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  4. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    No episcopal authority? From whom?

    Ecclesiastical authority (potestas sacra) is the authority which the Church has been given by Jesus Christ to be exercised in his name in carrying out the mission entrusted to it.

    The Protestant denomination, as well as the Catholic denomination, the Orthodox denomination, and others are all parts of the Christian church, the Body of Christ. You are correct in saying it is not a schism.

    Your saying they have no episcopal authority is meaningless. Who gives that authority? You? Your denomination?

    1 Corinthians 12:12-20, "For just as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body—though many—are one body, so too is Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit. For in fact the body is not a single member, but many. If the foot says, “Since I am not a hand, I am not part of the body,” it does not lose its membership in the body because of that. And if the ear says, “Since I am not an eye, I am not part of the body,” it does not lose its membership in the body because of that. If the whole body were an eye, what part would do the hearing? If the whole were an ear, what part would exercise the sense of smell? But as a matter of fact, God has placed each of the members in the body just as he decided. If they were all the same member, where would the body be? So now there are many members, but one body."
     
  5. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jim,

    From the Church. From the beginning the Church has given episcopal authority through the laying on of hands by other bishops and the apostles before them. This has been the practice of the Church for 2000 years.
    No one has the right to claim or confer eposcipal authority except those whom have already received it through the Church.

    Peace be with you!
     
  6. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    What a lot of sloppy brown fertilizer?

    Today, episcopal authority is claimed through the gaining of a piece of paper that tells us that the person is programmable and has learned to recite that which he has been taught. The higher the piece of paper is, in the pecking order, the higher is that person's authority.

    The system of merit is gain from other people who like the words that have been used and the manner in which they have been used. The context of the dissertation and its relevance and application is immaterial to the awarding of the piece of paper that is obtained for the gaining of that authority for power.

    In my travels through life I have meet people with the relevant gifting who have been effective in Kingdom Ministry without having had a "commissioning," as you have suggested, to be doing God's work. Do I need a laying on of hands to be a blessing to those that I might rub shoulders with on a daily basis.

    Everybody in relationship with Christ/God has a one on one connection to lead them in the ways that they should go in their ministry. If they have Christ leading them then why do they need another "person" to guide them in their ministry.

    The same is true for churches. Is the "control factor" of todays episcopal authority through the laying on of hands more of a hinderance than it is a blessing.

    At the moment in "closed" countries, God is raising up His "Church" through dreams and visions, where He is directly calling people to Himself and for ministry, where there is no laying on of hands from the hierarchy structure within that country.

    God's assembly/church is where God's power is being effectively used by the people within the assembly to bring and show God's Glory to the people around that assembly/church such that they draw people into becoming God's kingdom people.

    The present church today, visible within the west, is a dying church where the vibrancy of a God empowerment for the church is missing.

    The OP question was not about who had the power to do what, but about the history of why the reformation occurred and that reformation is still going on today as newer reformations occur to release God's people trapped within the existing "churches" structures to be about doing God's Ministry as He has told us to do.

    Shalom
     
  7. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jay,

    People can claim whatever they like, but if they have not been ordained by those in the Church with the authority to do so, their claim is empty.

    Peace be with you!
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Those in leadership of the "Church" do so at the whim of the "church members" not because of their "holiness" but because they, like politicians, are likeable and can often tell a good story.

    Unless they walk and talk with God/Christ, they really have no authority in His assembly, and they are just "good and faithful servants of Satan."

    Now, perhaps I did not answer the question in the OP, and your summary told of the early splits that occurred, but your put down of the subsequent "schisms" that have occurred over time like the reformation, where the reformation fathers tried to reform the RC church from within and not, at that time, create another "church" was hindered by the "power games" that followed.

    Before the printing press, the copying of books was a slow and expensive process and any dissenting book which was deemed to be contrary to the controlling powers of the RCC hierarchy was quickly dismissed with the sword and the burning at the stake of any who held differing opinions as to what it meant to be a "Christian." Any book that were found in these small populations and communities of dissenting views were easily collected and burned.

    With the advent of the printing press, it was more difficult for the RCC to control the publication of differing opinions as to what the RCC propagated as their "truth." The printing press enabled differing theological expressions to quickly spread across the expanse of the European landscape through the generation of many copies of those documents quickly, where hundreds of copies could be printed overnight where previously a copy of a document often took much longer to achieve because they were hand written.

    The establishment of the internet today is another revolution which has seen the dispersion of many ideas within our societies. Some beneficial, others not so.

    Your claim that episcopal authority from within the "church" is required to form another denomination whether catholic or protestant, is a red herring or rabbit hole that is not necessary for this thread.

    Church schism occur easily, and come about because the "leadership" of the body within a community have strayed from "God's truth" and that has been replaced with "their truth." When we trace the history of the "church," this is the primary cause for "newer" denominations to form. Sadly, the stiff necks of the opposing sides have difficulty in reconciling their differences and so another splitter group/church forms.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The apostolic (or New Testament) churches did not fully maintain the teachings of Christ and the apostles. So after the apostles passed on single bishops became the heads of the various churches within the Roman empire. From that the Orthodox churches developed and then spread throughout Europe. But the church of Rome claimed that Peter was the first bishop of Rome, therefore the Roman Catholic church was the "true church". The church of Rome dominated Europe for about 1,000 years. After that many Catholics began to see the problems with the teachings and practices of this church. This led to the Reformation and the Reformers were former Catholics. This was mainly in Europe. But the Orthodox churches maintained their own doctrines and practices in the Byzantine empire. So orthodoxy was more in Russia and Eastern Europe while Catholicism dominated Western Europe. There are many similarities and many differences between these two groups. But that would be a very lengthy discussion.
     
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  10. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jay?

    'put down'? since when is Truth a put down?

    A schism occurs when bishops of a particular church (or churches) no longer remain in communion with other bishops and their particular churches.

    The communities that have grown out of the rebellion of the Reformation are not churches in that sense having no bishops.

    Does that mean they are not part of the Church? hmm... well I would say that one can say with assurance where the Church IS, but not where it is not..

    8:2 Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let
    the people be; even as where Jesus may be, there is
    the universal Church. It is not lawful apart from the
    bishop either to baptize or to hold a love-feast; but
    whatsoever he shall approve, this is well-pleasing also
    to God; that everything which ye do may be sure and
    valid.


    - St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch to the Smyrneans circa 100 AD

    Peace be with you!
     
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  11. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    The difference in churches
    good for the paint suppliers!
     
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  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a thick layer of paint, can hide the structural flaws and rot, within the difference in and between the churches.
     
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  13. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    shhhhhh but they don’t actually believe scripture!
     
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    There is only one church Jn 10:15 founded by Christ on Peter Matt 16:18-19 to teach all men Matt 28;19 without error Jn 16:13 all others are sects full of errors the tradition of men!
     
  15. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Please explain your 16th century novelty of justification by faith alone ?

    Please explain this in light of “faith Alone”?????

    Matt 25

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Notice: 46 the righteous, really righteous!
     
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Yep, your are right once again, both sides do not believe the scriptures and miss use the scriptures to support their misguided beliefs. Evidence such as sexual abuse in both the RCC and protestant denominations confirms this fact that the visible church is not the church that Christ would want to have as His example as to what He is endorsing as His Church.
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    no cos they do not teach such a thing! They do not approve it as moral!

    Why reject Jesus Christ?
    Why reject the word of God?
    All for the sake ago a 16th century novelty and heresy of “faith alone”!

    Faith and baptism!

    Matt 28:19
    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    Mk 16:16
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

    Jn 3:5
    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

    Acts 8:36-38

    36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

    37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God

    Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

    Faith and baptism!

    Matthew 24:35
    Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    2 Timothy 3:16
    All scripture, inspired of God…
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    You know, there is no point in having a discussion with a person who believes that they know it all.

    You only have to look at the consequences that nations are facing because of the actions of the churches today. From where I sit, it is not a pretty sight, when we all play at being god, the blindness and deafness of those who believe that they are right with God, is a stench that is strong.
     
  19. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    the church is holy the spotless bride of Christ prepared by God

    there has been an extensive infiltration of communists homo’s and modernists
     
  20. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Oh well let us blames everybody else and not take on board that we too in the church are also responsible.
     
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