The Doctrine of Christ

[eradicator]

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

What does denying "JESUS is the Christ" have to do with denying "the Father and the Son"?

According to the trinitarian doctrine I can deny the Father and still have the Son of God.

But not when there is only ONE Spirit of God to begin with.

According to this verse, if we deny that JESUS is the Christ, we deny both the Father and the Son.

If we deny that the Father made Himself a body of flesh and blood and came down here in a body of sinful flesh called the Son of God, then we deny that JESUS is the Christ.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

And they still do not understand that if they believe not that He is the Father, they will die in their sins.

Isa_63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
Isa_43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa_45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Isa_49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Exo_34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Christ is the Father, the Word, the Holy Ghost, the Son of God, the Son of Man.
Is Christ the Spirit of God?

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Is Christ the Spirit that was in the Old Testament?

1Pe_1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ?

Are we talking about the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ JUNIOR?

No! There is only ONE Spirit of God my friend.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is no God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The triune God or trinitarian God does NOT exist.

There are the functions of God.

Father is the administrative office of God.

Son of God is the redemption office of God.

The Word is the expressive office of God.

The Son of Man is the kingdom office of God and
the Holy Ghost is the power office of God.

Christ is all of these functions of God and in all of these functions of God.

Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


It did not say that Christ is all and in US all.

2Jn_1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[Angelina]

Greetings Eradicator. Please read ~ http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20032-statement-on-the-trinity/

 

[brakelite]

Eradicator, while I am no supporter of the traditional trinity, I must comment that in relation to, for example, John 3:16, and other like verses, that if the Father truly gave His only begotten Son, then the Father had a Son to give.

 

[Wormwood]

According to the trinitarian doctrine I can deny the Father and still have the Son of God.

This is a false statement. Thus the rest of the argument is based on a false premise. The Father, Son and Spirit are one substance. No Trinitarian would argue that you can deny the Father and have the Son.

 

[brakelite]

Can you explain what you mean by 'one substance'?

 

[Angelina]

He talking about the Oneness doctrine I believe Brakelite...

 

[Wormwood]

No, Oneness theology argues that there is one God who manifests himself in different ways. It is also known as Modalism or Sabellianism. Thus, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are merely masks or modes by which the one God manifests himself. Trinitarian theology argues that God consists of three persons of one substance or nature. Thus Father, Son and Spirit truly are distinct persons, but they all share one essence. I believe the Bible teaches the latter. Three distinct persons that share one substance. God is one but consists of three persons.

 

[eradicator]

Oneness doctrine do not believe that same man in the days of His flesh was made Lord and Christ. Lord, Jehovah God Almighty and Christ, the Holy Ghost. They believe the God-man doctrine. Son of God on His Father's side and Son of Man on His mother's side. The God-man doctrine. Go look it up in their UPC manual.

That doctrine according to John 3:13 destroys that theory. JESUS was NOT the Son of any man.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

JESUS is speaking that while He was in shoe leather. The Son of man which IS in heaven? Only God is omni Present.

Modalism or Sabellianism believes that God uses modes but can only use them one at a time. Thus limiting the power of God to be omni present. They don't believe God is omni present.

I believe JESUS Only Doctrine. JESUS Only is God. JESUS is the Father, JESUS is the Son of God, JESUS is the Word, JESUS is the Holy Ghost, JESUS is the I AM, Aleph to the Tahv. JESUS is the Christ.

JESUS claims to be ALL of these titles. But we sit back and don't give Him the Glory due to His name. Instead we call Him just the Son of God.

If we believe NOT that He is the Father of Glory, we will die in our sins. If we believe NOT that JESUS is the Christ. Christ is all of the functions and attributes of all that God is (Including the Father, then we are an ANTI-CHRIST. We do not have both the Father and the Son.

 

[eradicator]

There is only One throne in Heaven.

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Notice there is a difference in Sit and Set. Set is a state of power. JESUS went back to God and is SET in His Father's throne. JESUS came from God and went back to God.

He did not go back beside God.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Joh_17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Why didn't it just say: Glorify thou me with the glory which I had with thee before the world was? Why did He have to say: glorify thou me with thine own self????

Because He is the Father revealed in a body of flesh and blood called the Son of God.

He humbled Himself to become a man like you and I. He made himself of NO reputation. Made in under the law. Not above the law. That is why there is a separation between His human Spirit and soul called the flesh.

Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

When He died on the cross that temple veil rent from top to bottom. His flesh being then out of the way thereby making one new man called the quickening spirit.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

That quickening spirit is the Holy Ghost.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. Which is the Holy Ghost.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Who is this comforter? The Holy Ghost.
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Who is dwelling with the disciples there? JESUS. And shall be in them? That is the Holy Ghost which is JESUS.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Now He plainly says it. JESUS will come to them and will not leave them comfortless.

Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So in this verse He is saying the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in us

.Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

In this verse for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

In this verse it is JESUS that speaks.

Thus saying it is the Same Spirit of God doing this. The Father, the Holy Ghost and JESUS. There is only One Lord.

 

[Wormwood]

I dont have time to reply to all of this, but John 3:13 does not say that.

“καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.” (John 3:13, NA27)

It does not say, "the Son of man which is in heaven." It says "And no one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."

Out of time, will try to look at the rest later.

 

[H. Richard]

Only God can create.

Gen 1:26-27
26 Then God said,"Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
NKJV

""Let US make man". Us is plural, not singular. When it is said that God is love then perhaps we should consider there are three who love each other to the point that they are considered one. Just as a man and wife are considered one.

 

[kerwin]

I am not sure how this forum works as I am new but I do see a number of errors.

It is true that God states "Let us" in Genesis 1:2-36-27 but we also is but one member of the unity of the Spirit according to Ephesians 4:3-6. The angels are members of the body just as are believing human beings. Since there are collective pronouns and not that speak of the actions of a group as opposed to the actions of the individuals. For example "our team won the prize" or "Let us build the house" where it only indicates what the collective does and not the individuals involved. There is simply no reason invent a grouping outside of what is already literally written in Scripture.

I am convinced the Spirit is godly love and there the unity of the Spirit is a collective unified by the fact they love as God loves.

So Jesus is "married" to God's as is God himself but so too are the angel and human believers both of whom are bound to it through faith that Jesus is the Anointed One.