The End of AIDS?

[aspen]

-- Of course. Are you ready to be honest about the fact that not speaking out against the sexual practices that cause the spread of the disease actually make things worse instead of better?

Changing sexual behavior is definitely part of the picture. I think speaking out against reckless sexual practices is a large part of the education about AIDS. Telling people that they are spreading AIDS because they are homosexual is not accurate, nor helpful.

 

[Foreigner]

Splitting hairs makes all the difference, huh?

That's the problem with messages such as yours.

When you point out that the homosexual acts as well as a number of sexual practices unique to the homosexual community are the leading causes of the spread of AIDS, you are automatically wrong, even though you are accurate.

And you are somehow 'victimizing' those that are committing those acts even though they know full well the risks involved and chances they are making the situation worse instead of better.

If, as you agree, behaviors need to change in order for AIDS to be curtailed, then why is pointing that out wrong?

 

[aspen]

I think you are being the only victim here, Foreigner.

Moralizing the disease of AIDS is not helpful. It is too narrow and it demonizes specific populations, which can lead to violence. A wider and more practical plan to promote behavior change is necessary.

 

[Foreigner]

LOL So now I am the victim? Honestly, THIS is what you are reduced to?

I do not have AIDS, do not practice homosexual sex or other homosexual sexual practices, have never given anyone a social disease, let alone one that will likely kill them, and have never said that I am being singled out because my sexual appetites happen to ring up a body count, possibly including my own.

YOU are moralizing. I am sticking to facts.
Adjusting behavior based on the facts is the only way deaths due to AIDS are going to stop.
Claiming someone is a victim because it is pointed out that the behavior they refuse to turn from is part of the problem hardly makes that person "the victim."

Sorry but you AIDS Awareness ribbon isn't going to save any lives.
Working to change behavior is.

 

[Shirley]

Or we could pray for God to give us a cure! How many people got aides from blood transfusion? From being born. From their dentist etc. etc. We don't change behavior-- God does! When people see his goodness they are miraculously changed! It is satan that brings illness! God will not protect you if you practice immoral behavior. He does heal people from aids! Blaming sickness on the sick seems wrong b/c Jesus came to heal the oppressed! Foreigner, have you laid your hands on a person with aids so they might be healed in the name of Jesus? Have you prayed for healing for people with aids and if not then why not? Don't you love the people Jesus came to save? It sounds like you do not. If you do not love it profits you nothing!

 

[aspen]

LOL So now I am the victim? Honestly, THIS is what you are reduced to?

I do not have AIDS, do not practice homosexual sex or other homosexual sexual practices, have never given anyone a social disease, let alone one that will likely kill them, and have never said that I am being singled out because my sexual appetites happen to ring up a body count, possibly including my own.

YOU are moralizing. I am sticking to facts.
Adjusting behavior based on the facts is the only way deaths due to AIDS are going to stop.
Claiming someone is a victim because it is pointed out that the behavior they refuse to turn from is part of the problem hardly makes that person "the victim."

Sorry but you AIDS Awareness ribbon isn't going to save any lives.
Working to change behavior is.

You are making the issue about you, Foreigner - look at your own words! It is not about people dying - it is all about you feeling pressure not to moralize the disease of AIDS. It really isn't about you!

The cure for AIDS is not found in Abstinence Programs or promoting behavior change through conversion. It is found it teaching people how to protect themselves from the reality of cheating spouses and risky sexual behavior. In Africa, it is teaching people about the dangers of eating bush meat, which often contains chimp and other primate meats. It is providing condoms and accessible medical care for people who are at risk or are already infected.

It is not about being 'right' or 'moralizing the disease' - it is about working to help people no matter how much you think they deserve to be sick or want them to become a Christian.

Or we could pray for God to give us a cure! How many people got aides from blood transfusion? From being born. From their dentist etc. etc. We don't change behavior-- God does! When people see his goodness they are miraculously changed! It is satan that brings illness! God will not protect you if you practice immoral behavior. He does heal people from aids! Blaming sickness on the sick seems wrong b/c Jesus came to heal the oppressed! Foreigner, have you laid your hands on a person with aids so they might be healed in the name of Jesus? Have you prayed for healing for people with aids and if not then why not? Don't you love the people Jesus came to save? It sounds like you do not. If you do not love it profits you nothing!

Prayer is a great way to help - I totally agree. God is faithful even when we are not - Christians are called to be faithful to God and to our neighbors even when the people we are helping are not faithful to God or us.

 

[Foreigner]

You are making the issue about you, Foreigner - look at your own words!

-- Except for comments about me I made AFTER you incorrectly and baselessly claimed I made it about me, there is absolutely nothing I said that puts the focus on me. No thing.

I wonder sometimes why you are reduced to such dishonest tactics

But again, please feel free to prove your point.

I would caution though. The last time you made a claim as silly as this (that Israel was bombing Iraq during the first gulf war) you ended up having to apologize.

I await either proof by direct quote or your apology.

Either works for me.

 

[Foreigner]

Hmmmmmm.......


Cardinal George: Chicago Gay Pride Parade, LGBT Movement Could 'Morph Into Ku Klux Klan'

Cardinal Francis George, Archbishop of Chicago, said Sunday that the city's Gay Pride Parade could "morph into something like the Ku Klux Klan."

Cardinal Francis George, the Archbishop of Chicago, this week told a Chicago news station that he agreed with a local Roman Catholic church's objections to the city's recently-adjusted Gay Pride Parade route passing by its doors and warned that the parade could "morph into the Ku Klux Klan."


George made the comment Sunday on Fox Chicago when asked about Our Lady of Mount Carmel's complaints that the parade passing by its Belmont Avenue location would force the church to cancel its morning mass. The church recently launched a petition urging the city to force parade organizers to adjust their plans.

"I go with the pastor," George told Fox. "He's telling us that he won't be able to have services on Sunday if that's the case. You don't want the gay liberation movement to morph into something like the Ku Klux Klan, demonstrating in the streets against Catholicism."
When the Fox host pointed out that George's comparison was "a little strong," the cardinal stood by his statement.

"It is, but you take a look at the rhetoric," he continued. "The rhetoric of the Klu Klux Klan, the rhetoric of some of the gay liberation people. Who is the enemy? Who is the enemy? The Catholic Church."

The cardinal's comments came a matter of days before the Gay Pride Parade organizers announced Wednesday that the pride start time, originally pushed back to 10 a.m. in an effort to curb public drinking, overcrowding and other safety hazards, would revert back to noon in order to stay clear of the church's Sunday mass, according to the Windy City Times.

LGBT Catholic group the Rainbow Sash Movement criticized Cardinal George as promoting a "doubled standard" in pushing for the parade to start later.
"One only has the look at the Chicago Marathon, and negative impact that race has on parishes such as Assumption Parish, St. Joseph's Parish, Immaculate Conception Parish and St. Michael's Parish just to name a few," the statement read, as reported by the Windy City Times.
Other local LGBT and progressive leaders reacted with disappointed to Cardinal George's controversial statement on Fox.
State Rep. Greg Harris (D-Chicago) called the Cardinal's choice of words "very unfortunate ... we should all speak respectfully of each other." LGBT advocacy group The Civil Rights Agenda executive director Anthony Martinez said he suspected the cardinal is "lashing out at the LBGT community over past matters and legislation that have now been resolved," the Chicago Phoenix reports.
State Rep. Sara Feigenholtz (D-Chicago) also weighed in on the statement, telling ChicagoPride.com, "The Cardinal's unfortunate choice of words in comparing the LGBT community to the Klu Klux Klan is offensive. ... I would hope an apology be forthcoming."
Catholic leadership in Chicago and, more broadly, Illinois have had a tenuous year with the LGBT community, fighting battles concerning the state's new civil union law, same-sex foster and adoptive parents and, most recently, the Illinois Catholic Conference launched a "Defense of Marriage" department with the hope of blocking any further steps the state might take toward recognizing same-sex marriage

 

[aspen]

-- Except for comments about me I made AFTER you incorrectly and baselessly claimed I made it about me, there is absolutely nothing I said that puts the focus on me. No thing.

I wonder sometimes why you are reduced to such dishonest tactics

But again, please feel free to prove your point.

I would caution though. The last time you made a claim as silly as this (that Israel was bombing Iraq during the first gulf war) you ended up having to apologize.

I await either proof by direct quote or your apology.

Either works for me.

I have no problem apologizing when I am wrong, Foreigner. In fact, I do so quite often on this board.

Are you seriously as wounded as you sound over this issue? Enough to 'wait' for an apology?

Your first sentence barely makes sense:

" Except for comments about me I made AFTER you incorrectly and baselessly claimed I made it about me, there is absolutely nothing I said that puts the focus on me. No thing."

mmmmm.....

Are you now claiming that you are not concerned about being judged or attacked for speaking out against homosexuality? Because I can find plenty of your past statements that appear to support your almost fervent belief that Christians are being silenced on this issue.

On the other hand, I have found nothing in your posts expressing concern about the victims of AIDS or their families or any solutions to the epidemic besides a moral-based behavior change.

I can only base my opinion on what I have read in your posts - my opinion is that you are more concerned about the morality of AIDS than the suffering of the victims and the backlash Christians receive from the gay community when a morality-based behavior change is offered as a solution.

Of course, this is only my opinion, so if you would like to clear up my misconception, feel free - I am exciting to here what you have to offer.

Hmmmmmm.......


Cardinal George: Chicago Gay Pride Parade, LGBT Movement Could 'Morph Into Ku Klux Klan'

Cardinal Francis George, Archbishop of Chicago, said Sunday that the city's Gay Pride Parade could "morph into something like the Ku Klux Klan."

Cardinal Francis George, the Archbishop of Chicago, this week told a Chicago news station that he agreed with a local Roman Catholic church's objections to the city's recently-adjusted Gay Pride Parade route passing by its doors and warned that the parade could "morph into the Ku Klux Klan."


George made the comment Sunday on Fox Chicago when asked about Our Lady of Mount Carmel's complaints that the parade passing by its Belmont Avenue location would force the church to cancel its morning mass. The church recently launched a petition urging the city to force parade organizers to adjust their plans.

"I go with the pastor," George told Fox. "He's telling us that he won't be able to have services on Sunday if that's the case. You don't want the gay liberation movement to morph into something like the Ku Klux Klan, demonstrating in the streets against Catholicism."
When the Fox host pointed out that George's comparison was "a little strong," the cardinal stood by his statement.

"It is, but you take a look at the rhetoric," he continued. "The rhetoric of the Klu Klux Klan, the rhetoric of some of the gay liberation people. Who is the enemy? Who is the enemy? The Catholic Church."

The cardinal's comments came a matter of days before the Gay Pride Parade organizers announced Wednesday that the pride start time, originally pushed back to 10 a.m. in an effort to curb public drinking, overcrowding and other safety hazards, would revert back to noon in order to stay clear of the church's Sunday mass, according to the Windy City Times.

LGBT Catholic group the Rainbow Sash Movement criticized Cardinal George as promoting a "doubled standard" in pushing for the parade to start later.
"One only has the look at the Chicago Marathon, and negative impact that race has on parishes such as Assumption Parish, St. Joseph's Parish, Immaculate Conception Parish and St. Michael's Parish just to name a few," the statement read, as reported by the Windy City Times.
Other local LGBT and progressive leaders reacted with disappointed to Cardinal George's controversial statement on Fox.
State Rep. Greg Harris (D-Chicago) called the Cardinal's choice of words "very unfortunate ... we should all speak respectfully of each other." LGBT advocacy group The Civil Rights Agenda executive director Anthony Martinez said he suspected the cardinal is "lashing out at the LBGT community over past matters and legislation that have now been resolved," the Chicago Phoenix reports.
State Rep. Sara Feigenholtz (D-Chicago) also weighed in on the statement, telling ChicagoPride.com, "The Cardinal's unfortunate choice of words in comparing the LGBT community to the Klu Klux Klan is offensive. ... I would hope an apology be forthcoming."
Catholic leadership in Chicago and, more broadly, Illinois have had a tenuous year with the LGBT community, fighting battles concerning the state's new civil union law, same-sex foster and adoptive parents and, most recently, the Illinois Catholic Conference launched a "Defense of Marriage" department with the hope of blocking any further steps the state might take toward recognizing same-sex marriage

Not sure what your point is in sharing this information:

1. The priest and I don't agree so I am wrong for not agreeing with church doctrine?
2. The priest was wrong for comparing the parade to the KKK?
3. The priest was right and the gay community is just persecuting him?

Enlighten me

 

[Braden]

This is a very serious issue. Not a plague from God.

 

[lawrance]

Yes the Gay pride lot are like the KKK only worse they are a very dictatorial mob pushing just filth and they are a highly organised militant pox on a nation going from bad to worse.

The KKK were only mainly a foundation of a mob of people in to making money in real estate who manipulated idiots to do their dirty work.

The Gay mob are a pox that will grow and grow like an obnoxious weed smothering a healthy society as it goes.

 

[Foreigner]

Yes the Gay pride lot are like the KKK only worse they are a very dictatorial mob pushing just filth and they are a highly organised militant pox on a nation going from bad to worse.

-- Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember gays calling for and carrying out lynchings, burning people's places of worship, dragging people out of their homes and lynching them, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe I need to get cable....

 

[aspen]

The cure for AIDS is not found in Abstinence Programs or promoting behavior change through conversion. It is found it teaching people how to protect themselves from the reality of cheating spouses and risky sexual behavior. In Africa, it is teaching people about the dangers of eating bush meat, which often contains chimp and other primate meats. It is providing condoms and accessible medical care for people who are at risk or are already infected.

Interesting article on the danger of bushmeat

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/13/10151806-smuggled-bush-meat-brings-viral-threat-to-us

 

[freetruth]

House of numbers

 

[brightmorningstar]

Of course if people limit their sexual activities to one faithful spouse and dont use drugs then the chances of getting aids are reduced to minimal.
That is God's purpose anyway. What is amusing is the level of riducle and denial of this by the world, not least because the new god is sex. As was said , the orgasm has replaced the cross.
Of course abstinance from sex removes the chance of having aids from sex, some people just dont like the idea of abstinance so they wont accept that. Abstinence should be part of the Aids program, ABC, Abstinance, Be faithful, Contraceptives. Abstinece is the only totally safe part. Removing abstinance as a part is insane stupidity.

The gay lobbies are absolutely not like the KKK, their record is non violent, and in that respect commendable, but they are Stalinist, they are keen for people who speak out against same sex relations to be dismissed from employment and silenced.

 

[Strat]

Nothing new,man has been trying to eliminate consequences since the garden and he has always failed,he will fail this time and bring something much worse in it's place,this is about the consequences of perverted sex....sex is modern man's most cherished form of rebellion against God and he cannot bring himself to understand that God not only has the right to tell him how to act in regard lying,envy,stealing ect ect but he also has the right to rule their sex lives....and yes there are innocent victims just like there are when people lie,steal or commit any other kind of sin.

This reminds me of a woman i used to know years ago before i got saved,we were dating and having sex regularly of course and she told me that she would like to go to church on Sunday morning and that i could come over and spend Saturday night there and we could go together....isn't that special,nothing tops off a great weekend of fornicating better than a visit to your local Church....even then i knew this was wrong....check the ststistics about cohabitation in the Church....a real eye opener.

 

[aspen]

Of course if people limit their sexual activities to one faithful spouse and dont use drugs then the chances of getting aids are reduced to minimal.
That is God's purpose anyway. What is amusing is the level of riducle and denial of this by the world, not least because the new god is sex. As was said , the orgasm has replaced the cross.
Of course abstinance from sex removes the chance of having aids from sex, some people just dont like the idea of abstinance so they wont accept that. Abstinence should be part of the Aids program, ABC, Abstinance, Be faithful, Contraceptives. Abstinece is the only totally safe part. Removing abstinance as a part is insane stupidity.

The gay lobbies are absolutely not like the KKK, their record is non violent, and in that respect commendable, but they are Stalinist, they are keen for people who speak out against same sex relations to be dismissed from employment and silenced.

I agree with you about abstinence being the only fail proof method to stop sexually transmitted diseases. It should be part of the curriculum for all sex education programs. My problem is that people who advocate for abstinence taught in schools and social service agencies often see it as a replacement for other forms of education. As if, teaching other methods of protection will tempt people to not try abstinence. The fact is, people are sexual beings - you do not have to tempt people to do what they are already planning to do AND we all remember what it was like to be a teenager. Kids are going to make their own decisions about sexual activity no matter what - the real issue is; are they going to be responsible about it, if they decide to do it?

My other problem is that reducing the spread of AIDS to a sexually transmitted disease that is only spread through homosexual contact ignores most of the problem. Sure homosexual sex is part of the problem, just as much as the spread of AIDS within infected populations of sexual active heterosexuals. If AIDS really was limited to homosexuals, it would not be an epidemic.

I remember as a young kid, watching African children starving and covered in flies and wondering why they did not shoo the flies away - as if that was the real problem! I had no idea they were too weak or that there were 30 million flies......instead, I was uncomfortable watching it so I wanted them to stop making me feel bad. Of course, kids have a lack of perspective taking skills, which prevent them from seeing the situation for what it really is - as adults we have no excuse.

Lack of perspective, sympathy, empathy, love, unconditional love is what Jesus was talking about when he told us that we were the blind leading the blind.

Nothing new,man has been trying to eliminate consequences since the garden and he has always failed,he will fail this time and bring something much worse in it's place,this is about the consequences of perverted sex....sex is modern man's most cherished form of rebellion against God and he cannot bring himself to understand that God not only has the right to tell him how to act in regard lying,envy,stealing ect ect but he also has the right to rule their sex lives....and yes there are innocent victims just like there are when people lie,steal or commit any other kind of sin.

This reminds me of a woman i used to know years ago before i got saved,we were dating and having sex regularly of course and she told me that she would like to go to church on Sunday morning and that i could come over and spend Saturday night there and we could go together....isn't that special,nothing tops off a great weekend of fornicating better than a visit to your local Church....even then i knew this was wrong....check the ststistics about cohabitation in the Church....a real eye opener.

Have you ever thought about the idea that Christ's Kingdom in the hearts of His followers has actually been effective in bring about a kinder world? Why are we so hell-bent on the idea that Christ only offers a lifeboat, rather than transformation? What a weak view of a powerful God! Christ was not about teaching fatalism! He told us that the Kingdom of God is here, now - in our hearts. So why do we offer the world fatalism when we are called to serve through love? We are a light in the world, not a wet blanket. Human kindness and compassion is mistaken by some Christians as rebellion against God - how insidious! Sounds like devilry to me. We talk about how sneaky the Devil is and they we describe the most obvious and infantile methods of corruption and give him the credit - LOL. What a joke! I think he is capable of being much more devious - how about gutting the hearts of Christians by replacing all goodness with fatalism?