The Fall of Humanity

[Robert Pate]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5. The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5. The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors, Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3. I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

I can't say precisely what caused Satan to fall, but I don't think it was because men were appointed to be his judge. My thought is that God gave men authority on earth, rendering any involvement on earth by Satan an act of trespassing. That made it so that human capitulation to Satan could be forgiven as provocations and duress. Only men who upheld their rebellion after coming to know they were bullied would be beyond forgiveness.

Being judges over angels does not mean we are superior to angels. It just means that we have authority in a place where if they trespass we can have them committed to divine judgment. In Jude we're warned against presuming things about angels. Clearly, angels are superior to men. If we don't see Satan as more powerful than ourselves, when he is described as "prince of the power of the air," then we're becoming willfully arrogant, according to Jude.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5. I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

Yes, Sin is there from the start in our lives. Our Spiritual DNA has been polluted.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17. What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

The quote "there is none righteous" comes from a place where Israel had fallen, woefully low, as a nation, from God's standards. It is not meant to say that Israel is always that low, or that they must always, by nature, be that despicably low.

I think Paul is saying that if an entire nation can be corrupted then Sin is in all of us, just as you said we're all born in Sin. If we sin from the time we're little children, then it's obvious we all have a Sin Nature. If a whole nation can be corrupted, then it's obvious they all had a Sin Nature.

The idea is not about how despicable we all are. Rather, it's about how despicable we can all become if we do not rely upon Christ outside of ourselves for our values and virtue. Since all men have access to God's word they don't have to be completely despicable, despite the presence of Sin in their lives. And since we have the ability to make Christ Lord we can become born again and become good people, despite the continuing presence of Sin in our lives.

Everything we do has a measure of moral flaw built into it. But it doesn't mean we can't obey God's word. In obeying God's word we obtain virtue. But for God, it isn't enough to simply display moral virtue from God. We must show ourselves to be good by embracing Christ in our heart.

This means that we must sacrifice all of our sinful tendencies to follow Christ's word. It doesn't mean we stop having moral flaws in our character. But it shows where we have set our allegiance. In making Christ our Lord we are made to be good by the word of Christ. We inculcate the values to ourselves that Christ has. And we adopt his spirituality. And that spirituality is able to overcome Sin--not erase it, but overcome it.

 

[Robert Pate]

I can't say precisely what caused Satan to fall, but I don't think it was because men were appointed to be his judge. My thought is that God gave men authority on earth, rendering any involvement on earth by Satan an act of trespassing. That made it so that human capitulation to Satan could be forgiven as provocations and duress. Only men who upheld their rebellion after coming to know they were bullied would be beyond forgiveness.

Being judges over angels does not mean we are superior to angels. It just means that we have authority in a place where if they trespass we can have them committed to divine judgment. In Jude we're warned against presuming things about angels. Clearly, angels are superior to men. If we don't see Satan as more powerful than ourselves, when he is described as "prince of the power of the air," then we're becoming willfully arrogant, according to Jude.

Yes, Sin is there from the start in our lives. Our Spiritual DNA has been polluted.

The quote "there is none righteous" comes from a place where Israel had fallen, woefully low, as a nation, from God's standards. It is not meant to say that Israel is always that low, or that they must always, by nature, be that despicably low.

I think Paul is saying that if an entire nation can be corrupted then Sin is in all of us, just as you said we're all born in Sin. If we sin from the time we're little children, then it's obvious we all have a Sin Nature. If a whole nation can be corrupted, then it's obvious they all had a Sin Nature.

The idea is not about how despicable we all are. Rather, it's about how despicable we can all become if we do not rely upon Christ outside of ourselves for our values and virtue. Since all men have access to God's word they don't have to be completely despicable, despite the presence of Sin in their lives. And since we have the ability to make Christ Lord we can become born again and become good people, despite the continuing presence of Sin in our lives.

Everything we do has a measure of moral flaw built into it. But it doesn't mean we can't obey God's word. In obeying God's word we obtain virtue. But for God, it isn't enough to simply display moral virtue from God. We must show ourselves to be good by embracing Christ in our heart.

This means that we must sacrifice all of our sinful tendencies to follow Christ's word. It doesn't mean we stop having moral flaws in our character. But it shows where we have set our allegiance. In making Christ our Lord we are made to be good by the word of Christ. We inculcate the values to ourselves that Christ has. And we adopt his spirituality. And that spirituality is able to overcome Sin--not erase it, but overcome it.

Satan was expelled from heaven because he wanted to be God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Satan was expelled from heaven because he wanted to be God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

In effect, yes. He wanted to be his own god, to have control over his own life without reference to the one true God. I believe Satan knew he was just a creature, and that God was the Creator. However, he wanted supremacy over his own life and over the things God had given him influence over.

That was, in effect, wanting to be God. He was jealous of God's authority over others, and wanted to have the authority for himself in the area where he thought he could exercise sovereignty. Indeed, he wanted to be worshiped as a god, the god of this earth. He likely wanted to be lord over a segment of God's angels, as well. He is like so many tyrants in earth's history. And his fate will be the same as theirs.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The fall of humanity is very controversial because it is about original sin. Adam and Eve were created innocent. I believe that God wanted them to have a free will to choose evil or good, unfortunately they chose evil. They bought the devils lie that they would be like God's knowing good from evil, Genesis 3:5.

Being made in God’s image and likeness, meant that humans would have free will like he does. But free will was not totally “free” because God gave them parameters within which to exercise their free will. That was his Sovereign right as their God and lawgiver. He did not want them to choose that knowledge for themselves, because he placed that decision is his own exclusive jurisdiction. He would decide what was good and what was evil so they would never have to know what an evil thing was. Every good parent wants to shield their children from harm.

The fall of humanity began in heaven when God announced to the angels that he was going to create a race of humans that was going to be their superiors

I don’t believe that was so…..it was the angels in heaven who applauded when God created the material universe and all that went with it.

Job 38:4-7…God asked Job….
”Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?”

The angels had nothing to fear from the creation of man….humans were created “a little lower than angels”.
Even Jesus as a human was “a little lower than angels”….

Hebrews 2:5-9….
”For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But in one place a certain witness said: “What is man that you keep him in mind, or a son of man that you take care of him? 7 You made him a little lower than angels; you crowned him with glory and honor, and appointed him over the works of your hands. 8 All things you subjected under his feet.” By subjecting all things to him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Now, though, we do not yet see all things in subjection to him. 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Paul said that the saved would judge angels, 1 Corinthians 6:3.

It is not all “saved” humans who will be those who “would judge angels”…only those chosen for a role in heaven, (those who will share rulership and priesthood with Jesus. Rev 20:6) will have that privilege.
Reading that verse in context, it is really focusing on the fact that Paul’s brothers and sisters in Christ were actually taking one another to a worldly court, rather than taking their justice issues to the “holy ones” (saints) Their quest for justice overshadowed their Christian love, which should have “covered a multitude of sins”.

I believe that when Satan heard that, a rebellion started and there was war in heaven, Revelation 12:7. The scripture says, "Woe to the inhabitors of the earth and of the sea! for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that his time is short". God allowed Satan to have access to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, as a test to see if they would choose good or evil. Satan and one third of the angels were cast out of heaven onto the earth, they are still here in the form of demons.

Actually, the Revelation is about the future, not the past. The casting out of the devil did not take place until satan and his demons were evicted from heaven and confined to the earth in these last days. The “war in heaven” was a cleansing of their former abode, where they apparently had access between heaven and earth throughout man’s history.
We know that in the book of Job, satan entered in among the other “sons of God” even though he was a rebel.
Jon 1:6-7…
”Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where have you come from?” Satan answered Jehovah: “From roving about on the earth and from walking about in it.”

The reason why satan had access to Adam and Eve is because he was a guardian cherub in the garden, set there by God….a position of great responsibility. (Ezek 28:12-17) He abused the trust given him and plotted to steal the worship of the humans for himself…..creatures “lower” than himself.

Remember in the Lord’s Prayer that with the coming of God’s Kingdom, God’s will was to “be done on earth as it is in heaven” so a cleansing of both realms was to take place…..heaven first, with Christ’s installation as King, (Daniel 7:13-14) and at the appointed time…the earth was to be wiped clean of sin and all who practice it.

Adam was the representative of humanity. As Adam goes so go we. We are all related to Adam, he is our first father, we all have Adam's blood coursing through our veins. This is why Jesus was not born after Adam, he was born of God and does not have Adam's blood which is corrupted. The whole human race has been corrupted by Satan. Paul wrote. "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous Romans 5:19. We are born sinners, King David said, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me" Psalm 51:5.

Yes….Adam’s sin caused a fault in his genetics that was inherited by all of us. Jesus had to come from outside of the flawed human race to buy back (redeem) Adam’s children.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have raised three children, the trouble starts at about two years old when they decide that they don't like the word "No". When they reach the teen age years is when the real trouble begins, and you begin to wonder if you made a mistake in having them. Somehow, we seem to get through all of the rebellion.

I have trouble with those that seem to think that by the deeds of the law they can annihilate their Adamic nature and become holy. If that was possible then Jesus lived and died in vain and is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. When we accept Christ as our savior God gives us the Holy Spirit. Does that get rid of our old Adam? No, if anything it makes things worse, because we now have two natures, that of Satan and that of Christ. "So that now the flesh (Satan) lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit (Christ) against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would" Galatians 5:17.

Exactly….the sin in our flesh fights with the spirit that wants to do what is right….good and evil fighting against each other….the very thing God wanted to prevent, but had to allow his children free will.
The object lessons last longer than the written ones.

What is the solution to this problem? There isn't one. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we will have to struggle with sin, just like Paul did, Romans 7:7-25.

True….but we are not alone in this struggle. Adam and his wife, like the angelic rebels were perfect because they were direct creations of God….they had no defects and no excuse to sin, and therefore had no basis for God to forgive them in their willful disobedience. Humans produced by them OTOH, were born in sin through no fault of their own, so we alone have God’s spirit…the most powerful force in the Universe, fighting “with” us…..but not “instead” of us. We still need to put forth the effort to fight our sinful nature and God will back us up, giving us the will and the power to defeat the devil at every opportunity he takes to undermine our faith. The most success he has had, is with the counterfeit “Christianity” he invented to make people believe that they have the truth, but it is all based on deception. These will offer their excuses to Christ at the judgment, but to no avail. (Matt 7:21-23) Jesus will tell them in no uncertain terms…”I never knew you!”….

Now is the time to really examine what we have been taught…..is the “Christianity” most people accept, the real one or the counterfeit? A careful study of the scriptures will reveal the truth to a genuine seeker…..but not to those who love the lie, and continue to promote the devil’s counterfeit. (John 6:65; 2 Thess 2:9-12)