The feetwashing

[lforrest]

Isn't the feetwashing Jesus did for his disciples symbolic of sanctification?

 

[justaname]

The context shows it is of servitude. Jesus came to serve, so too we are servants. The greatest in heaven is the servant of all. (just in case you were wondering, Jesus is the greatest in heaven)! Lol...

12 When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, "Do you understand what I have done to you?
13 You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you.
16 Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. - John 13:12-16

 

[Angelina]

I think that the idea here was about servanthood. If you read the passage in John 13:8 Jesus said that if he did not wash Peter's feet, he would have no part of him. I believe these words are symbolic of Christs work on the cross as a servant of God just as Peter and Christ's disciples were servants of God.

10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.

The above passage IMHO, consolidates the idea that Jesus was speaking about servanthood....

 

[epostle1]

Pope Francis to inmates: 'I too need to be washed by the Lord'​

​

Pope Francis kisses an inmate's foot at Rome's Rebibbia New Complex Prison April 2​

 

[Angelina]

This is not biblical...

 

[epostle1]

This is not biblical...

I've seen Protestant services that had "washing of the feet" ceremony, following the tradition from John 13.

14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

I guess you didn't read the link. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-to-inmates-i-too-need-to-be-washed-by-the-lord-97828/
Pope Francis reminded inmates that God’s love knows no bounds. He cited the gospel passage about how Jesus had loved his disciples “to the end.”
“Jesus loves us, but without limits, always, until the end,” the Pope said. “The love of God for us doesn't have limits. There is always more, always more. He never tires of loving anyone.”
Francis emphasized that Jesus gave his life for each person by name, saying that “each one of us can say, 'he gave his life for me.' Each one… His love is like this! Personal!”
The Pope then explained that in the time of Jesus, it was the job of the slaves to wash the feet of the guests who came into the house. The Church asks priests to imitate Jesus in assuming the role of the slave by washing the feet of 12 people.
Pope Francis encouraged the congregation to remember “in our heart we need to have the certainty, we need to be sure that when that when the Lord washes our feet, he washes everything, he purifies us, he makes us feel his love again.”
What, precisely, is unbiblical?

 

[Angelina]

The closest I've ever seen to feet kissing is found in Luke 7:36, 37, 38. I've not heard anyone representing Gods people, kissing the feet of those who are paying the penalty for their offenses.

The Church asks priests to imitate Jesus in assuming the role of the slave by washing the feet of 12 people.

Christ's disciples were not slaves, they were servants and Jesus was referring to washing the feet of other servants just like them. The Pope has turned the biblical context of the feet washing analogy into humanitarianism which is fine but it completely leaves out the salvation message which is the whole purpose of Christ's work on the cross.

 

[epostle1]

The closest I've ever seen to feet kissing is found in Luke 7:36, 37, 38. I've not heard anyone representing Gods people, kissing the feet of those who are paying the penalty for their offenses.

The kissing part, as seen in the photo, is an expression of love which is loosely related to the washing of the feet. Rest assured he washed it first. It's not a foot kissing ceremony. It was the servants job to wash the feet of the guests, not the host, as it was the custom of the times. The tradition directly from the Last Supper (Holy Thursday) has been carried on for 2000 years.


Christ's disciples were not slaves, they were servants and Jesus was referring to washing the feet of other servants just like them.

No, Jesus washed the Apostles feet, and He told them to follow His example. Servant and slave are interchangeable terms

15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Who is "he that is sent"?

The Pope has turned the biblical context of the feet washing analogy into humanitarianism which is fine but it completely leaves out the salvation message which is the whole purpose of Christ's work on the cross.

That's a drastic conclusion from someone that was not there, never heard the homily, and made no assessment of the impact on the lives of the prisoners. No, the Pope has done no such thing, and no, the foot washing ceremony is about our relationship with one another as the People of God, it is not about Christ's work on the cross. The washing of the feet is not baptism. It is an annual reminder for priests and ministers of all stripes that hey are to serve their congregation, not the other way around. The Pascal meal is connected to the Crucifixion but connecting Foot Washing? Judging the Pope based on scanty information from a news article is an injustice.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God -
Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 25:36

​What may drive you bonkers about the Pope is his humility. You just don't get it.

 

[DPMartin]

Back in the day the Lord Jesus was walking amongst His People, it was customary in households to wash your feet before entering the premises. Just as in Japan it is customary to remove your shoes. In households that would, they would wash your feet for you or hire someone to do so for honored guests. I do believe when Jesus was invited to visit a pharisee’s household there is mention of the custom. Hence, washing the world one has to walk through every day, off the feet. And not carry undesirable substance therein. The Lord washes the undesirable substance off of those of His that walk through the world and maybe have stepped into something unacceptable in the Lord’s Household. Hence the servants of the household wash the feet off His People. As they come and go. What is preached and taught, so on and so forth should wash off the world’s ideologies and philosophies and men’s theologies that hinder a clear view of the Truth of God in Jesus Christ. So as not to corrupt or be corrupted in the ways of the world or men.

 

[Barrd]

The closest I've ever seen to feet kissing is found in Luke 7:36, 37, 38. I've not heard anyone representing Gods people, kissing the feet of those who are paying the penalty for their offenses.

The kissing part, as seen in the photo, is an expression of love which is loosely related to the washing of the feet. Rest assured he washed it first. It's not a foot kissing ceremony. It was the servants job to wash the feet of the guests, not the host, as it was the custom of the times. The tradition directly from the Last Supper (Holy Thursday) has been carried on for 2000 years.


Christ's disciples were not slaves, they were servants and Jesus was referring to washing the feet of other servants just like them.

No, Jesus washed the Apostles feet, and He told them to follow His example. Servant and slave are interchangeable terms

15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Who is "he that is sent"?

The Pope has turned the biblical context of the feet washing analogy into humanitarianism which is fine but it completely leaves out the salvation message which is the whole purpose of Christ's work on the cross.

That's a drastic conclusion from someone that was not there, never heard the homily, and made no assessment of the impact on the lives of the prisoners. No, the Pope has done no such thing, and no, the foot washing ceremony is about our relationship with one another as the People of God, it is not about Christ's work on the cross. The washing of the feet is not baptism. It is an annual reminder for priests and ministers of all stripes that hey are to serve their congregation, not the other way around. The Pascal meal is connected to the Crucifixion but connecting Foot Washing? Judging the Pope based on scanty information from a news article is an injustice.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God -
Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 25:36

​What may drive you bonkers about the Pope is his humility. You just don't get it.






I have to admit, Kepha....the picture of the Pope on his knees kissing the feet of a someone who has committed a crime....Rapist? Child molester? Murderer? Who knows?...is kinda disturbing on a gut level.
Now wait...I get it that he is a very humble, and loving man, and I think it is incredible that he would spend Holy Thursday visiting kids in a detention center or spend the time speaking with prisoners instead of the traditional ceremony at the Basilica. I am deeply impressed by this. Even though I am not a Catholic and don't believe in the pope the way that Catholics do, and even though I know that there have been a few popes who were thoroughly evil men (sorry), this man deserves our respect.
As Angelina says, there is only one instance in the Bible (that I can think of either) that shows someone kissing someone else's feet...and that is the prostitute who barged into Simon the Pharisee's house because she knew Jesus would be there, and threw herself at His feet where she wept....she washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair....and, Jesus said, from the time He came in she did not stop kissing His feet.
I can't think of one single instance where Christ kissed anyone's feet...nor, I think, would His disciples have been comfortable with that...consider the exchange between Jesus and Peter that night.
It is one thing to be humble, and I have great admiration for the pope because of his great humility....something sadly lacking in so many of our religious leaders!

But I think he may have taken it just a tad too far here....and frankly, it makes me wonder just how genuine he actually is.
Again, I aplogize if I offend you...but quite honestly, while washing the feet of those prisoners might be an act of humility, and praiseworthy....kissing them just makes him look foolish.

 

[lforrest]

Back in the day the Lord Jesus was walking amongst His People, it was customary in households to wash your feet before entering the premises. Just as in Japan it is customary to remove your shoes. In households that would, they would wash your feet for you or hire someone to do so for honored guests. I do believe when Jesus was invited to visit a pharisee’s household there is mention of the custom. Hence, washing the world one has to walk through every day, off the feet. And not carry undesirable substance therein. The Lord washes the undesirable substance off of those of His that walk through the world and maybe have stepped into something unacceptable in the Lord’s Household. Hence the servants of the household wash the feet off His People. As they come and go. What is preached and taught, so on and so forth should wash off the world’s ideologies and philosophies and men’s theologies that hinder a clear view of the Truth of God in Jesus Christ. So as not to corrupt or be corrupted in the ways of the world or men.

Thanks,

There is clearly a deeper meaning implied in John 13:8-10. A separate meaning other than the literal teaching of humbling ourselves and serving one another. If there isn't a deeper meaning then christians that don't practice this rite should be worried.

I had thought it meant that Christians should help each other to overcome the world just as Christ helps us. This would be our sanctification, which must be done by Jesus. And this would imply that other Christians can help with our sanctification. It also means that those who refuse to go through sanctification are in danger of hell.

 

[DPMartin]

Thanks,

I had thought it meant that Christians should help each other to overcome the world just as Christ helps us. This would be our sanctification, which must be done by Jesus. And this would imply that other Christians can help with our sanctification. It also means that those who refuse to go through sanctification are in danger of hell.

Well I understand how sanctification may seem to have a play in it, but really sanctification is being born of the Holy Spirit receiving the Life of Christ and living therein, which makes you separate from the world in God’s sight. As far as sanctification goes in the lesson of the washing of the feet, it’s more of a maintenance of your sanctification in Christ Jesus. That what you are separated from while you yet remain in the world doesn’t begin to interfere with your fulfillment in Christ.

 

[epostle1]

I have to admit, Kepha....the picture of the Pope on his knees kissing the feet of a someone who has committed a crime....Rapist? Child molester? Murderer? Who knows?...is kinda disturbing on a gut level.

"Pope Francis reminded inmates that God’s love knows no bounds. " It's in the article. God’s love knows no bounds is also in the Bible.
Every human being is of incomparable value. Matthew 25:36 mentions visiting Jesus when He was in prison. That can only mean that Jesus is somehow connected to all humanity, including the most despicable criminals. Remember Jesus died beside a guilty convict and promised him paradise.

The Church knows that this Gospel of life, which she has received from her Lord, 1 has a profound and persuasive echo in the heart of every person-believer and non-believer alike-because it marvellously fulfils all the heart's expectations while infinitely surpassing them. Even in the midst of difficulties and uncertainties, every person sincerely open to truth and goodness can, by the light of reason and the hidden action of grace, come to recognize in the natural law written in the heart (cf. Rom 2:14-15) the sacred value of human life from its very beginning until its end, and can affirm the right of every human being to have this primary good respected to the highest degree. Upon the recognition of this right, every human community and the political community itself are founded.

In a special way, believers in Christ must defend and promote this right, aware as they are of the wonderful truth recalled by the Second Vatican Council: "By his incarnation the Son of God has united himself in some fashion with every human being".2 This saving event reveals to humanity not only the boundless love of God who "so loved the world that he gave his only Son" (John 3:16), but also the incomparable value of every human person.
The Church, faithfully contemplating the mystery of the Redemption, acknowledges this value with ever new wonder.3 She feels called to proclaim to the people of all times this "Gospel", the source of invincible hope and true joy for every period of history. The Gospel of God's love for man, the Gospel of the dignity of the person and the Gospel of life are a single and indivisible Gospel.

The Value and Inviolability of Human Life (Evangelium Vitae)

Kinda puts a new light on John 3:16, doesn't it?

Now wait...I get it that he is a very humble, and loving man, and I think it is incredible that he would spend Holy Thursday visiting kids in a detention center or spend the time speaking with prisoners instead of the traditional ceremony at the Basilica. I am deeply impressed by this. Even though I am not a Catholic and don't believe in the pope the way that Catholics do, and even though I know that there have been a few popes who were thoroughly evil men (sorry), this man deserves our respect.

Yes, thank you. People who have no respect for the Pope have no respect for themselves. No need to be sorry. Catholics are painfully aware that some popes were scoundrels, about 10 in all, but none of them taught a heresy. One betrayer out of 12 Apostles is a much worse ratio than 10 betrayer popes out of 266 popes, so mathematically it's an improvement. Sinners, yes, but they stayed in the Church where sinners belong. You don't want me to list the moral deficiencies of the reformers who ran off inventing their own churches.

I can't think of one single instance where Christ kissed anyone's feet...nor, I think, would His disciples have been comfortable with that...consider the exchange between Jesus and Peter that night.As Angelina says, there is only one instance in the Bible (that I can think of either) that shows someone kissing someone else's feet...and that is the prostitute who barged into Simon the Pharisee's house because she knew Jesus would be there, and threw herself at His feet where she wept....she washed His feet with her tears and dried them with her hair....and, Jesus said, from the time He came in she did not stop kissing His feet.

It is one thing to be humble, and I have great admiration for the pope because of his great humility....something sadly lacking in so many of our religious leaders!

But I think he may have taken it just a tad too far here....and frankly, it makes me wonder just how genuine he actually is.
Again, I aplogize if I offend you...but quite honestly, while washing the feet of those prisoners might be an act of humility, and praiseworthy....kissing them just makes him look foolish.

Have you ever been kissed on the cheek three times by a European? That might make you feel foolish.


Pleeeze, Barrd, it's not a foot kissing ceremony, it is a foot **washing** ceremony. The camera just happened to snap a cultural gesture of affection that isn't 22nd century American. The kissing is a humble act of love that really has nothing to do with the main focus, which is the washing of the feet, celebrated in every parish around the world on Holy Thursday. Both washing and kissing feet have biblical precedents, and BOTH are humble acts of love. In all my years, I've never seen a priest kiss feet on Holy Thursday, but there is nothing wrong with it if he wanted to. If the Pope adds a simple gesture of love to a ceremony, he has the authority to do so.
You cannot bind humble gestures of love with legalisms.

Oh my, look at that. A jug of water, a towel and a basin. How unbiblical!!!

 

[justaname]

I have served in a prison, but I never washed an inmates foot let alone kiss it! LOL About the closest we are allowed to get is to shake hands. I guess being the Pope has its privileges...

 

[Barrd]

The Value and Inviolability of Human Life (Evangelium Vitae)

Kinda puts a new light on John 3:16, doesn't it?


Yes, thank you. People who have no respect for the Pope have no respect for themselves. No need to be sorry. Catholics are painfully aware that some popes were scoundrels, about 10 in all, but none of them taught a heresy. One betrayer out of 12 Apostles is a much worse ratio than 10 betrayer popes out of 266 popes, so mathematically it's an improvement. Sinners, yes, but they stayed in the Church where sinners belong. You don't want me to list the moral deficiencies of the reformers who ran off inventing their own churches.

Have you ever been kissed on the cheek three times by a European? That might make you feel foolish.


Pleeeze, Barrd, it's not a foot kissing ceremony, it is a foot **washing** ceremony. The camera just happened to snap a cultural gesture of affection that isn't 22nd century American. The kissing is a humble act of love that really has nothing to do with the main focus, which is the washing of the feet, celebrated in every parish around the world on Holy Thursday. Both washing and kissing feet have biblical precedents, and BOTH are humble acts of love. In all my years, I've never seen a priest kiss feet on Holy Thursday, but there is nothing wrong with it if he wanted to. If the Pope adds a simple gesture of love to a ceremony, he has the authority to do so.
You cannot bind humble gestures of love with legalisms.

Oh my, look at that. A jug of water, a towel and a basin. How unbiblical!!!

This picture doesn't make my skin try to crawl right off of my body, the way the other did....

I've read the Bible many times, cover to cover...and the only time I can think of where anyone kissed anyone's feet was when the prostitute kissed Jesus' feet as she washed them with her tears and dried them with her hair.
Any one of us might be moved to fall at His feet in the same way....I have often felt that way.
The foot washing thing may be a lovely ceremony, but in our modern times, with indoor plumbing, and with better footwear, I don't think it is a necessary service any more. I think Jesus' point...that we are to be servants unto one another...may have gotten lost somewhere.
What we do in church is all very well....but how does it carry over into our daily lives?

 

[epostle1]

How does Jesus' example carry over into the lives of the Apostles?
Remember, the foot washing is always done by the priest (alter Christus) on 12 laymen.

The foot washing scene in the Gospel of John is not only meant to be an example of humble service, but primarily a record of the institution of the Christian priesthood and thus the Scriptural root of the sacrament of holy orders. That's why canon law requires the recipients to be men only. Since the Pope has jurisdiction over canon law, he can wash the feet of women if he wants to. This does not mean the Church will ordain women.

Something more than mere exemplarism is going on in John 13. Jesus’ washing of the disciples’ feet has sacerdotal (relating to priests or the priesthood) significance; Jesus institutes the priesthood. In John 13:3

Jesus’ reply to Peter, “What I am doing you do not know now, but afterward you will understand”, suggests that more is going on than just a moral example, for the ritual can only be understood “afterward.” After what? His glorification, as made clear in John 13:1-2, as well as beforehand in John 12:16

The foot washing scene in John 13 is a “status transformation ritual” in which the disciples are made priests of the new covenant. Peter at first refuses to let Jesus wash his feet, but Jesus’ response that Peter can have no “part” in Jesus (John 13:8) unless Peter submits to the ritual reveals its gravity and indicates that sacerdotal sharing in Christ is involved. Important is the observation that the phrase ean mē (“unless”) indicates real transformation elsewhere in the Gospel of John:

Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
Unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (John 6:53)
Unless you believe that ‘I AM,’ you will die in your sins. (John 8:24)
Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone. (John 12:24)
Unless I wash you, you have no part in me. (John 13:8)
As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. (John 15:4)

In John 13 we find evidence that real ontological transformation is in view. But transformation into what? Into priests, as in John 13 we also find parallels to Leviticus 16, which concerns the priestly Day of Atonement ritual:
Lev. 16:23-24

Observe the pattern: The high priest undresses, bathes, dresses, and offers sacrifice. It’s the same pattern found in John 13:
Jesus undresses (v. 4),
washes the disciples’ feet (v. 5-11),
dresses (v. 12), and
will soon offer himself in sacrifice. Whereas in Leviticus the high priest washes all of himself, in John, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Jesus is sharing his high priesthood with the disciples; he must wash them—that is, ordain them as priests—lest they have “no part” in his own priesthood.

It's also important to point out that talk of the Catholic "hierarchy" is ultimately inadequate. For exercising one's ministry as a priest or a bishop isn't a matter of raw power, (contrary to anti-Catholic myth) as if a priest or bishop were merely a prince or potentate. No, serving as a priest or bishop involves serving after the manner of Jesus Christ who "emptied himself and took on the form of a slave" (Phil. 2:7), the same Christ who taught his first priests and bishops, the Twelve, that "whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all" (Mk. 10:43-44), the same Christ who in washing the disciples' feet as an "example" to them directly linked priestly and episcopal service with humility.

There is, then, no real tension between reading John 13 as a story concerning the example of serving one another in humility and love and reading it as the institution of the priesthood.
source edited

John Calvin had some nasty things to say about the foot washing ceremony. He unbiblically taught that because the Law was abolished, so was the priesthood. He threw the baby out with the foot water.

 

[Barrd]

How does Jesus' example carry over into the lives of the Apostles?
Remember, the foot washing is always done by the priest (alter Christus) on 12 laymen.

The foot washing scene in the Gospel of John is not only meant to be an example of humble service, but primarily a record of the institution of the Christian priesthood and thus the Scriptural root of the sacrament of holy orders. That's why canon law requires the recipients to be men only. Since the Pope has jurisdiction over canon law, he can wash the feet of women if he wants to. This does not mean the Church will ordain women.

Something more than mere exemplarism is going on in John 13. Jesus’ washing of the disciples’ feet has sacerdotal (relating to priests or the priesthood) significance; Jesus institutes the priesthood. In John 13:3

Jesus’ reply to Peter, “What I am doing you do not know now, but afterward you will understand”, suggests that more is going on than just a moral example, for the ritual can only be understood “afterward.” After what? His glorification, as made clear in John 13:1-2, as well as beforehand in John 12:16

The foot washing scene in John 13 is a “status transformation ritual” in which the disciples are made priests of the new covenant. Peter at first refuses to let Jesus wash his feet, but Jesus’ response that Peter can have no “part” in Jesus (John 13:8) unless Peter submits to the ritual reveals its gravity and indicates that sacerdotal sharing in Christ is involved. Important is the observation that the phrase ean mē (“unless”) indicates real transformation elsewhere in the Gospel of John:

Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
Unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (John 6:53)
Unless you believe that ‘I AM,’ you will die in your sins. (John 8:24)
Unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone. (John 12:24)
Unless I wash you, you have no part in me. (John 13:8)
As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. (John 15:4)

In John 13 we find evidence that real ontological transformation is in view. But transformation into what? Into priests, as in John 13 we also find parallels to Leviticus 16, which concerns the priestly Day of Atonement ritual:
Lev. 16:23-24

Observe the pattern: The high priest undresses, bathes, dresses, and offers sacrifice. It’s the same pattern found in John 13:
Jesus undresses (v. 4),
washes the disciples’ feet (v. 5-11),
dresses (v. 12), and
will soon offer himself in sacrifice. Whereas in Leviticus the high priest washes all of himself, in John, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Jesus is sharing his high priesthood with the disciples; he must wash them—that is, ordain them as priests—lest they have “no part” in his own priesthood.

It's also important to point out that talk of the Catholic "hierarchy" is ultimately inadequate. For exercising one's ministry as a priest or a bishop isn't a matter of raw power, (contrary to anti-Catholic myth) as if a priest or bishop were merely a prince or potentate. No, serving as a priest or bishop involves serving after the manner of Jesus Christ who "emptied himself and took on the form of a slave" (Phil. 2:7), the same Christ who taught his first priests and bishops, the Twelve, that "whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all" (Mk. 10:43-44), the same Christ who in washing the disciples' feet as an "example" to them directly linked priestly and episcopal service with humility.

There is, then, no real tension between reading John 13 as a story concerning the example of serving one another in humility and love and reading it as the institution of the priesthood.
source edited

John Calvin had some nasty things to say about the foot washing ceremony. He unbiblically taught that because the Law was abolished, so was the priesthood. He threw the baby out with the foot water.

Well now, there is a lot here that I did not understand.
You have given me much to think about here...

If, as you say, foot washing is equivalent to ordination...does this mean that the men who had their feet washed are now priests?
How, exactly, does this work?

And a question I have always wondered about....why is it that women are excluded? Surely, Jesus had many female followers...

 

[epostle1]

Well now, there is a lot here that I did not understand.
You have given me much to think about here...

If, as you say, foot washing is equivalent to ordination...does this mean that the men who had their feet washed are now priests?
How, exactly, does this work?

It's not an equivalent, Jesus is instituting the sacrament of Holy Orders by sharing His Priesthood with the Apostles in John 13. When priests wash the feet of 12 laymen on Holy Thursday, it is not for the purpose of ordination. The purpose is for the priest to do what He told them to do.

And a question I have always wondered about....why is it that women are excluded? Surely, Jesus had many female followers...

John 13 has a two fold meaning.
1) serving one another in humility and love and
2) reading it as the institution of the priesthood.
There is no conflict or contradiction regardless of how anyone wants to read it, but I think it's a mistake to ignore the obvious parallel with Lev. 16:23-24.

The exclusion of women is a two fold question. If you mean exclusion from the priesthood, that is another topic.

If you mean the traditional exclusion of women having their feet washed on Holy Thursday, this has been recently changed by the Pope and has stirred some controversy among the traditionalist stick-in-the-muds. I think the primary reason for the exclusion of women in the past is that none of the Apostles were women. Maybe it occurred in previous centuries, I don't know. Foot washing ceremony is regulated by canon law and it's not a doctrinal issue, and since the Pope is arbitrator over it, he can, and has, washed the feet of women.

It is true that Jesus loved women. From whom do you think he learned that from?

 

[Barrd]

John 13 has a two fold meaning.
1) serving one another in humility and love and
2) reading it as the institution of the priesthood.
There is no conflict or contradiction regardless of how anyone wants to read it, but I think it's a mistake to ignore the obvious parallel with Lev. 16:23-24.

The exclusion of women is a two fold question. If you mean exclusion from the priesthood, that is another topic.

If you mean the traditional exclusion of women having their feet washed on Holy Thursday, this has been recently changed by the Pope and has stirred some controversy among the traditionalist stick-in-the-muds. I think the primary reason for the exclusion of women in the past is that none of the Apostles were women. Maybe it occurred in previous centuries, I don't know. Foot washing ceremony is regulated by canon law and it's not a doctrinal issue, and since the Pope is arbitrator over it, he can, and has, washed the feet of women.

It is true that Jesus loved women. From whom do you think he learned that from?

I would refer you to Paul's letter to the Romans...chapter 16. In that letter he mentions several women who held authority in the church.
Including the rather controversial Junia, who, it seems, was an apostle...in fact, she was "of note among the apostles".

I think that Jesus was God, and in Him is the Godhead bodily. And God loves women, and regards them as completely equal with men...in Christ there is no male or female.

Excuse me....I have no wish to derail this thread.

 

[epostle1]

I would refer you to Paul's letter to the Romans...chapter 16. In that letter he mentions several women who held authority in the church.
Including the rather controversial Junia, who, it seems, was an apostle...in fact, she was "of note among the apostles".

I think that Jesus was God, and in Him is the Godhead bodily. And God loves women, and regards them as completely equal with men...in Christ there is no male or female.

Excuse me....I have no wish to derail this thread.

That's ok, I think the feet washing topic has been exhausted anyway.
Of all the women mentioned in the NT, none of them were ordained. Junia, who is "of note among the Apostles" does not make her an apostle, it means that among the Apostles her holiness was noteworthy.
Deaconess Pheobe assisted in the church with baptisms. Again, she was never ordained to the priesthood.

Gen. 3:15; Luke 1:26-55; John 19:26; Rev. 12:1- Mary is God's greatest creation, was the closest person to Jesus, and yet Jesus did not choose her to become a priest. God chose only men to be priests to reflect the complimentarity of the sexes. Just as the man (the royal priest) gives natural life to the woman in the marital covenant, the ministerial priest gives supernatural life in the New Covenant sacraments.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – fatherhood and priesthood are synonymous terms. Micah says, “Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest.” Fathers/priests give life, and mothers receive and nurture life. This reflects God our Father who gives the life of grace through the Priesthood of His Divine Son, and Mother Church who receives the life of grace and nourishes her children. In summary, women cannot be priests because women cannot be fathers.

Mark 16:9; Luke 7: 37-50; John 8:3-11 - Jesus allowed women to uniquely join in His mission, exalting them above cultural norms. His decision not to ordain women had nothing to do with culture. The Gospel writers are also clear that women participated in Jesus' ministry and, unlike men, never betrayed Jesus. Women have always been held with the highest regard in the Church (e.g., the Church's greatest saint and model of faith is a woman; the Church's constant teaching on the dignity of motherhood; the Church's understanding of humanity as being the Bride united to Christ, etc.).
read more here

The Catholic Church cannot ordain women to the priesthood because she does not have the authority to do so. But it has nothing to do with inequality.

"...And - even beyond the Blessed Virgin - there are plenty of women role models in Catholic history to look up to and emulate: St. Teresa of Avila, or St. Catherine of Siena (who rebuked popes), or St. Therese of Lisieux, or St. Clare, or St. Hildegard of Bingen, or Mother Teresa, or Dorothy Day, or Blessed Edith Stein, or Deborah, Esther, Ruth, and many other biblical heroines. Theological and sexual liberals often appear to look at things as if they were a matter of social psychology, rather than the biblical and Christian theology of creation and spirituality: ultimately the mystery of Christ and His Church.

Role Differentiation is Not Inequality

There is no inequality here whatsoever (e.g., Gal 3:28). If women are unequal to men in orthodox (i.e., Nicene and Chalcedonian) Christianity of whatever stripe, then Jesus is not equal to the Father, since He subjected Himself to the Father (Phil 2:5-8) and even to Mary and Joseph (Lk 2:51). The Holy Trinity is a very apt analogy because it offers a clear example of an equality which nevertheless includes (by its very nature) subjection and differential roles - exactly analogous to marriage and male ordination. Thus, radical feminism logically leads to heterodoxy with regard to the Holy Trinity, or else undue skepticism towards the Bible. That's why sexual and theological liberalism are so closely allied - it is no coincidence. .."
read more here

I have more to say on the matter but the post is long enough.