its ok bro, i figured out last night that this guys a kooklforrest said:
see http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20194-the-commandments-of-jesus-christ/page-2#entry229189
The Free Gift of Salvation
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see http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20194-the-commandments-of-jesus-christ/page-2#entry229189
Thank you for caring!lforrest said:
Liked you folk's responses, ie, "Our Lord will send lying spirits to a liar and deceiver" in light of IIThess.2:10b-12.
Old Jack
When John had his revelation, he saw a multitude before the throne that none could number. This was the fulfilment of the promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as the sand of the sea. This begs the question as to just how God was able to provide this kind of promise if He was leaving it up to men to basically do what Jesus said is impossible. So what does it really mean to give up one's own life? What does it mean to take up one's cross? How does a man forsake all? The answer is not so clear to they who are still engaged in trying to earn their way to the free gift of life.
God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. This was seen in the story Jesus told of two men praying in Luke 18:10-14. The Pharisee offered up all the good things he was doing. The tax collector beat his breast, confessed his sin, and asked for mercy. It was He that Jesus said went away justified and not the so called man of God. Why? The Pharisee was depending upon his own obedience. He exalted himself according to Jesus.
So friends, while we discuss whatever each one figures is necessary to be considered one who has given up his life, maybe we ought to think about these things. Maybe, just maybe, the giving up of one's life is done by way of giving up any confidence in one's own resources. Maybe we give up our life when we forsake any thought that we can earn salvation through works or obedience, or our own good living. Its difficult for the proud man to accept a free gift, to receive charity. The proud man is hanging on to his life, not giving it up.
God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. This was seen in the story Jesus told of two men praying in Luke 18:10-14. The Pharisee offered up all the good things he was doing. The tax collector beat his breast, confessed his sin, and asked for mercy. It was He that Jesus said went away justified and not the so called man of God. Why? The Pharisee was depending upon his own obedience. He exalted himself according to Jesus.
So friends, while we discuss whatever each one figures is necessary to be considered one who has given up his life, maybe we ought to think about these things. Maybe, just maybe, the giving up of one's life is done by way of giving up any confidence in one's own resources. Maybe we give up our life when we forsake any thought that we can earn salvation through works or obedience, or our own good living. Its difficult for the proud man to accept a free gift, to receive charity. The proud man is hanging on to his life, not giving it up.
Thank you for caring!williemac said:
When I first came to the Lord looooong ago, first and foremost they assured me I could never loose my salvation and that all I had to do was show up to Church on Sunday (was a whole 1.5 hours then, compared to the 1.0 hours of today) + bring your money + show up to a Wednesday eve's Bible study and prayer (basics, where anything more was just gravy) - sounded good to me!
I asked them about Jn.15:6 as they told me to get into John first? Then I started asking more questions to the point it wasn't long before one of the junior pastors said "maybe you should find another Church." I was irritated to the point where I went back to the University's library to do some research on this God as before I use to use the secular part of the library as a second home. The junior pastor did me the biggest favor a minister can do, that is, make me dig in in order to ask better questions.
My end point, all those that believe that you only have to have faith, and the Church will save you along with OSAS, I have land in Palm Springs I could sell to you. Its' a free gift providing one enters God's grace and mercy God's way, then work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Old working Jack
Thanks for your reply. I too, have been with the Lord for a long time (34 yrs or so). However, I did not say to anyone the kinds of things you were told. What I have said before and will repeat for your information, is that faith, though required, is not the qualification for eternal life. Faith is the means by which we receive it, but it the actual thing that qualifies us for grace is humility. God gives grace to the humble. So, I agree that there is more to this than merely believing. Faith has a purpose. It is the means by which we receive a free gift from God. However, my in depth studies on this subject including the letter to the Galatians, has shown me that one of the ways the enemy tries to trip us up is to leave humility and enter into a program of maintaining our salvation through our own means, usually in our works and/or behavior. Paul said..."lest any man should boast".shturt678 said:
Therefore I have seen others use the instruction to work out our salvation in an inappropriate motivation. What we do as believers is indeed important in no uncertain terms. But WHY we do it is far more crucial than many give it credit. Our life in Christ is not meant to be lived as a way to ensure our salvation. It is meant to be a witness to it. This is why it is called fruit. It is meant to be a means to gain rewards on the judgment seat of Christ, but it is not meant to guarantee that we arrive at this seat. The Holy Spirit is given as our guarantee. Doing the right things as believers is worthy of much attention, instruction, exhortation, rebuke, and discussion. But doing them for the wrong reasons will do such things as throw a person into inner turmoil, will interfere with joy, will hinder humility, and may quite well cause loss at the judgement seat of Christ.
Further to this reply, if you look at the parable of the sower, Jesus concluded that as people understand the word, they bear fruit...some 100, some 60, some 30. The indication is that any of these are acceptable. But what I commonly see is that some of those who in thier own minds are bearing much fruit are often in the business of comparing themselves to those bearing less and even little fruit. This turns even more sour when they suggest that those others are going to lose salvation. This reflects legalistic thinking, as the law was intolerant to the degree that even if a person failed on any one point of it, he would be considered guilty of all of the law. Bringing this kind of intolerance into the new covenant is far to common for my liking, and I am frequently engaged in opposing teachings that are headed in that direction.
In fact, the parable of the talents should release us from this kind of intolerance. The one who buried his talent could have just put it in the bank according to Jesus, and let it earn interest on its own. This requires minimal effort, but indicates that one is in agreement with the program. It would have been tolerable according to Jesus. However the effort of digging a hole and burying it indicates opposition to God.
The conclusion is that fruit happens, unless one deliberately refuses to bear it. It is designed that way. We are exhorted to participate in the bearing of it. However, when this becomes a matter of saving oneselve in this endeavor, it enters into dangerous territory.
Blessings and grace to you.
You did exactly what ALL new believers should do, read and study the Bible and not just sit there letting any and all thoughts into your soul.shturt678 said:
Many believe that free will does not exist when it comes to God's will, but that is a dogmatic POV, and NOT scripture. Jesus told us to ask, seek, knock even though we are evil. Paul told us to confess and believe. Neither of these instructions/admonition would have been made if WE cannot do so. Yes God works in us to do His will but Paul teaches us to work OUT our salvation. Even dumb sheep know they have to eat, and our bread is the Word of God, NOT man-made doctrines. It is indeed a free gift, but one has to accept a gift before one possesses it.
DANG THAT WAS GOOD........I MEAN REALLY GOOD....NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUTMadad21 said:
I'm going to have to put on another shirt.........wild goooooose bumps on that one
I don't even have to post here..............ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My whole family over here is jumping for joy at just two words....My Sin....
That ball is outta here______________________________________>
MaDad........there isn't a font big enough on this planet that can express my joy for that answer.
I know right, I saw this thread and I thought hmm what can I put here..then all of a sudden the room started spinning I found myself on a mountain over looking a great plain and on it were oompa loompas playing rugby under a giant rainbow which played Johnny cash songs, I look down and noticed I was wearing all corduroy jacket and pants and I thought to myself yuck I hate corduroy and then in a flash of light I witnessed four very masculine female bodybuilders in Justin Bieber tank tops flying down from the clouds above and they were speaking to me saying "The rubbish goes out on Tuesdays now, not Wednesdays, only the recycling is on Wednesdays." and then I turn around and behind me I saw an aardvark playing a ukulele and he also spoke to me saying "Corduroy looks really good on you" and I thought maybe it wasn't so bad maybe mix it up up with a nice shirt maybe the right shoes, and then he spoke again saying "........Not"RANDOR said:DANG THAT WAS GOOD........I MEAN REALLY GOOD....NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN ABOUT
I'm going to have to put on another shirt.........wild goooooose bumps on that one
I don't even have to post here..............ENOUGH SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My whole family over here is jumping for joy at just two words....My Sin....
That ball is outta here______________________________________>
MaDad........there isn't a font big enough on this planet that can express my joy for that answer.
Then suddenly I woke up and realised I hadn't responded to the thread so I just put "My Sin" and went to bed.
You know what they say mate, takes one to know one.StanJ said:You guys are either a little weird or are smoking wacky tabacky.
And I see you recognise the madness well brother
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
THIS OP DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!
It states that Salvation is “free” but it will “cost” you something. Why will a payment be required if it is free? Seems to me a contradiction in terms!
After God had created the world in six days, He said everything was good and rested on the seventh day.
In the Book of Numbers, we read about a man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath which was unlawful to do. Moses asked God what he ought to do, what was the answer given? “Stone him to death!” This is how severe the punishment of doing work on the Sabbath, then and now.
The parable and illustration of “picking up sticks” is equivalent to Eph 2:9 “not of works, lest any man should boast,”
Ex 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a
sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour
him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine
own words:
Note in Ex 35:2 that the word “Sabbath” is also translated “rest.”
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that
believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of
you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my
wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from
the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest
the seventh day from all his works.
God in the New Testament did rest from His work also as He laid in the tomb on the Sabbath day.
God is a jealous God and He will NOT give credit to anyone who works for his salvation, just as the man who went to the Wedding Feast not dressed in a wedding gown (trying to get into heaven per say without proper attire), but on the other hand, the believers go into heaven with Christ's robe of righteousness.
The parable of the Wedding Feast illustrates that “many are called, few are chosen.”
As we have seen, to do work in any form for salvation is not only detrimental to anyone, but brings about death.
THE SALVATION PLAN OF GOD IS INDEED “FREE”
To God Be The Gory
THIS OP DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!
It states that Salvation is “free” but it will “cost” you something. Why will a payment be required if it is free? Seems to me a contradiction in terms!
After God had created the world in six days, He said everything was good and rested on the seventh day.
In the Book of Numbers, we read about a man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath which was unlawful to do. Moses asked God what he ought to do, what was the answer given? “Stone him to death!” This is how severe the punishment of doing work on the Sabbath, then and now.
The parable and illustration of “picking up sticks” is equivalent to Eph 2:9 “not of works, lest any man should boast,”
Ex 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a
sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour
him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine
own words:
Note in Ex 35:2 that the word “Sabbath” is also translated “rest.”
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that
believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of
you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my
wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from
the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest
the seventh day from all his works.
God in the New Testament did rest from His work also as He laid in the tomb on the Sabbath day.
God is a jealous God and He will NOT give credit to anyone who works for his salvation, just as the man who went to the Wedding Feast not dressed in a wedding gown (trying to get into heaven per say without proper attire), but on the other hand, the believers go into heaven with Christ's robe of righteousness.
The parable of the Wedding Feast illustrates that “many are called, few are chosen.”
As we have seen, to do work in any form for salvation is not only detrimental to anyone, but brings about death.
THE SALVATION PLAN OF GOD IS INDEED “FREE”
To God Be The Gory
It states that Salvation is “free” but it will “cost” you something. Why will a payment be required if it is free? Seems to me a contradiction in terms!
After God had created the world in six days, He said everything was good and rested on the seventh day.
In the Book of Numbers, we read about a man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath which was unlawful to do. Moses asked God what he ought to do, what was the answer given? “Stone him to death!” This is how severe the punishment of doing work on the Sabbath, then and now.
The parable and illustration of “picking up sticks” is equivalent to Eph 2:9 “not of works, lest any man should boast,”
Ex 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a
sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour
him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine
own words:
Note in Ex 35:2 that the word “Sabbath” is also translated “rest.”
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that
believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of
you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my
wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from
the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest
the seventh day from all his works.
God in the New Testament did rest from His work also as He laid in the tomb on the Sabbath day.
God is a jealous God and He will NOT give credit to anyone who works for his salvation, just as the man who went to the Wedding Feast not dressed in a wedding gown (trying to get into heaven per say without proper attire), but on the other hand, the believers go into heaven with Christ's robe of righteousness.
The parable of the Wedding Feast illustrates that “many are called, few are chosen.”
As we have seen, to do work in any form for salvation is not only detrimental to anyone, but brings about death.
THE SALVATION PLAN OF GOD IS INDEED “FREE”
To God Be The Gory
THIS OP DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!
It states that Salvation is “free” but it will “cost” you something. Why will a payment be required if it is free? Seems to me a contradiction in terms!
After God had created the world in six days, He said everything was good and rested on the seventh day.
In the Book of Numbers, we read about a man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath which was unlawful to do. Moses asked God what he ought to do, what was the answer given? “Stone him to death!” This is how severe the punishment of doing work on the Sabbath, then and now.
The parable and illustration of “picking up sticks” is equivalent to Eph 2:9 “not of works, lest any man should boast,”
Ex 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a
sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day;
and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour
him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine
own words:
Note in Ex 35:2 that the word “Sabbath” is also translated “rest.”
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that
believed not?
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of
you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my
wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from
the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest
the seventh day from all his works.
God in the New Testament did rest from His work also as He laid in the tomb on the Sabbath day.
God is a jealous God and He will NOT give credit to anyone who works for his salvation, just as the man who went to the Wedding Feast not dressed in a wedding gown (trying to get into heaven per say without proper attire), but on the other hand, the believers go into heaven with Christ's robe of righteousness.
The parable of the Wedding Feast illustrates that “many are called, few are chosen.”
As we have seen, to do work in any form for salvation is not only detrimental to anyone, but brings about death.
THE SALVATION PLAN OF GOD IS INDEED “FREE”
To God Be The Gory
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Madad21
Please don't thank me for it was my duty to do.
When a brother recognizes a teaching by another brother to be true and in accordance with Scripture, it is only because the Holy Spirit has opened both of their spiritual eyes to the same truths.
We are in the market place and the true believers have the task to "plant" and to "water", for our faith is in display.
May God bless you always.
To God Be The Glory
Please don't thank me for it was my duty to do.
When a brother recognizes a teaching by another brother to be true and in accordance with Scripture, it is only because the Holy Spirit has opened both of their spiritual eyes to the same truths.
We are in the market place and the true believers have the task to "plant" and to "water", for our faith is in display.
May God bless you always.
To God Be The Glory
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