The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

#9. Modern Bibles falsely teach Jesus had faith.

Hebrews 12:2 (NRSV)
“looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.”

The King James Bible correctly renders Hebrews 12:2.

Hebrews 12:2 (KJB)
“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

Jesus is the author or the creator of our faith because He is God. God or Jesus gave us the words of eternal life to believe in Him. He created the faith for us to believe in Him, and trust in Him for salvation, and to trust in His words. Jesus is not the pioneer of our faith. That’s a false teaching from Modern Bibles that was influenced by Westcott, Hort, and Catholicism. Granted, if you believe in Westcott, Hort, and or Catholicism, I mean no offense. I just disagree with their beliefs, and I consider them to be unbiblical.

#10. The False Belief that Jesus is a second-created god is taught in Modern Bibles:

Modern Bibles wrongfully teach the demi-god Jesus viewpoint in that they wrongfully imply the Eternal second PERSON of the Trinity (the Living Word) had a beginning point in time in being a created being. In John 1:18, in the King James Bible, it correctly says: “the only begotten Son,” but this is changed in corrupted Modern bibles to say: "The only begotten God" (LSV) (BLB) (AMP) (NAS1977) (NAS1995). In Micah 5:2, in the King James Bible, it correctly says that the Living Word (or the Messiah) is: “from everlasting,” but this is changed in the corrupted Modern bibles to: “from ancient times” or “from ancient days” or “distant past.” (Suggesting that the second person of the Trinity did not exist from eternity’s past but had a beginning).

#11. The Truth That God Will Not Reward Us Openly By Our Doing Works in Secret For Him is Erased.

In Matthew 6:1, Matthew 6:6, and Matthew 6:18, Modern Bibles remove the point about how God will reward us openly (publicly or among others) if we give alms in secret, pray in secret, and we fast in secret. This is sad because it shows that God can reward us openly today in our lives and not just in the afterlife. It shows God is actively involved in our lives, and He cares for us in our day-to-day lives.

#12. Important Key Words in the Lord’s Prayer are Removed.

In Matthew 6:13 (in the Lord’s Prayer): Modern bibles remove the words, “..For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.” This is the model prayer Jesus gave to us, and it is subtly attacked in one part here in Modern Bibles. We are to say to God the Father in our own words, "Your's is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever, Amen.” I believe one way to understand what is being said here is in the fact that this is an expression of a position of humbleness before God in our worship of Him and what is owed to Him. God deserves all the glory and power because He is God, and we are just mere human beings (i.e., the creation).

#13. The Great Commission in Mark is Questioned.

Modern Bibles footnote Mark 16:9-20 and say these verses were not in the earliest manuscripts. This affects doctrine. Mark 16:15 says, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” So the great commission is not only teaching all nations (as Matthew 28 says), but it is also preaching the gospel to every creature (person). This shows the importance and focus of the gospel as a part of our Lord’s great commission (But such a beautiful thing is cast into doubt with Modern bibles).

#14. God magnifies His Word above His own name Is Removed in Modern Bibles.

Psalms 138:2 says, “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” Yet, the underlined part of this verse is neutered like a cat in Modern Versions. You don’t really know the full depth of how God regards His Word if you have a Modern Bible.

#15. In Modern Bibles, You are Not Taught About Knowing the Certainty of the Words of Truth.

Proverbs 22:21 says, “That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?” Yet, knowing the certainty of the words of truth is removed in Modern Bibles. This is strange because those who hold to Modern Bibles generally believe there are errors in all Bibles, and there is no real certainty of the words of truth.

#16. Doubt is Cast on the Depth of Christ’s Sacrifice Involving the Substitutionary Atonement.

In Luke 22:43-44, this passage is bracketed in the NASB, NET, and footnoted in the NIV (suggesting that this verse is not in the earliest manuscripts). Jesus sweats great drops of blood, and He is strengthened by an angel in his prayer, which shows the magnitude of the kind of prayer He was making. This was no small matter. Jesus was to take on the sins of the whole world in that cup within the garden of Gethsemane. The Modern Bibles (which removes these truths) is a subtle attack against the “Substitutionary Atonement” and the level of Jesus's sacrifice. For Jesus sweating great drops of blood and being strengthened by an angel shows the depth of what Christ was going through when He was taking on our sins that were in that cup of which the Father gave to Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

Most do not know that all Modern Bibles are influenced by the Vatican.

Here it is straight out of the Nestle and Aland Critical Text 27th Edition (New Testament Greek text). Note: The Nestle and Aland Critical Text is in it’s 28th edition now and it is the basis for most of the Modern English Bibles printed today. But the 27th edition below says this…

Source:
The KJB Only versus the Latin Vulgate Only Argument by: Another King James Bible Believer

I am going to repeat the text and highlight the key points.

“The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”​

So…

#1. The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies.
#2. Following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies
#3. It has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. (Note: What is the word “it” referring to in this sentence? This could be referring to the text and it is the basis (foundation) for new translations and revisions (Modern Bibles)).
#4. The text is the basis for new bible translations made under their supervision (the Vatican) which marks a significant step in regards to inter confessional relationships. Why does it mark a significant step? Because Carlo Martini (A Catholic cardinal) is an editor on the Nestle and Aland Critical Text.

In fact, let's check out the Nestle and Aland Critical Text page at Wikipedia called:

“Novum Testamentum Graece”

Novum Testamentum Graece - Wikipedia

Scroll down the page, and you will see pictures of Nestle, and Aland.
Note: Nestle worked on the Critical Text years before Aland.
Kurt Aland is the one who worked on the Critical Text involving the Vatican. How so?

Notice the highlighted words in the pic below.

Carlo Maria Martini.

If you were to zoom in and look at the picture below Kurt Aland:

Again, who is Carlo Maria Martini?

As I said before, he is a Catholic cardinal.

Source:
Carlo Maria Martini - Wikipedia

Important Note: JUST CLICK ON THE LINK FOR CARLO MARIA MARTINI MENTIONED IN THE ARTICLE).

But wait. There’s more. Let’s look at Kurt Aland again. I circled his picture below for you to see him. You can see his name next to his picture.

Now in this photo, you can see Kurt Aland with the pope:

Why?

Because of this:

“The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to inter confessionals relationships.”

Source:
Nestle and Aland Critical Text - 27the Edition.

But Guess which Bible the Roman Catholic Church does NOT want you to read -

Yes, I am aware that this is an older book by the Catholic Church. But it is still pretty recent in history.

But why bring this up?
See my next post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

The Modern Bibles have been corrupted by Rome.

You can check out page 21 here of the 14 changes in Modern Bibles that favor the Roman Catholic Church.

http://www.keithpiper.org/storage/books/NIV-Omissions-Cimatu-7July2018-pdf.pdf

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

Now, your probably wondering, but what advantage do the Catholics in have with employing Textual Criticism? Well, first, keep in mind that the Catholics used to kill even their own people for just possessing the Scriptures (According to the words of their own people). They wanted to control Scripture with the priests and so the regular Catholic person could not really understand the Bible without the priest giving them their interpretation.

To see the Catholic church’s persecution of the Bible, see here:

Rome's Persecution of the Bible

Rome's Persecution of the Bible

www.wayoflife.org

It was not until 1943 whereby the Catholics have even allowed the regular Catholic layperson to even read and study the Scriptures for themselves. Seeing, the Vatican could not keep the Word of God out of the hands of people forever, I believe they changed tactics in taking the Word of God from them with their efforts involving Westcott and Hort and their Greek New Testament Greek text, and the later Nestle and Aland NT Greek text (Which involved the supervision of the Vatican). This changing of tactics by the Catholic Church to take the Word of God out of men’s hands was not by killing them (like they did with others), but they changed tactics by getting them to believe the scholar (PRIEST) instead of reading and believing the Bible plainly in their own language. For the Catholic wants you to get their interpretation from the PRIEST. So they don’t mind you believing in the Trinity. They just have a problem with you believing in it based on using the Bible because the Catholics are against Bible Alone as their authority. They want you to trust the PRIEST i.e. or Scholar instead to get the sacred interpretation that we stupid laypeople cannot understand on our own (Without them). James says God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. I cannot imagine a poor guy on the street looking at Lexicons to get the original meaning but I see him simply reading and believing the Bible in English plainly. So the Catholic wins without firing a shot. They did not need to kill anyone this time to keep the Word of God out of man’s hands. They changed tactics and many have bought into their strategy… hook, line, and sinker. Rome has won if you look to the scholar or priest instead of the Bible Alone.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

Check out…

The Book That Changed the World:

Trailer:

Watch Kjb - The Book That Changed The World | Prime Video

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@RLT63

While I have 101 Reasons to believe in the King James Bible, I provided just 30 of them in this other forum here:

30 Reasons why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today (Update: KJVO Posters Only)

30 Reasons Why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today: Updated Thread Rule: I created a new thread rule so as to stop the heated discussion and the personal attacks. I know Anti-KJV Only Proponents have already posted here for about 30 pages since the creation of this thread...

www.christianforums.com

I hope this helps, and may God bless you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think Matthew 6:15 confirms the parable of the servant who was forgiven a debt he could not pay then had someone jailed for failing to pay him back a small sum. Look what happened to him. Will we go to Hell if we fail to forgive someone? You’ll have to ask someone who knows more than I do but it seems foolish to take the chance. I agree with you that we should fight to live a Godly life, I don’t agree that this is what saves us.

Matthew 6:15
”But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

That idea here is if God does not forgive you, then you are not saved.
Most Christians know that the forgiveness of sins is tied to salvation.

Colossians 2:13 says:
”And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”

Romans 1:31-32
“Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

So we see that those who are unmerciful (i.e. those who do not forgive) will not make into the Kingdom of God.

Unforgiveness is hate towards another.

1 John 3:15 says: “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63

While I have 101 Reasons to believe in the King James Bible, I provided just 30 of them in this other forum here:

30 Reasons why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today (Update: KJVO Posters Only)

30 Reasons Why the KJV is the Divine and Pure Word of God for Today: Updated Thread Rule: I created a new thread rule so as to stop the heated discussion and the personal attacks. I know Anti-KJV Only Proponents have already posted here for about 30 pages since the creation of this thread...

www.christianforums.com

I hope this helps, and may God bless you.

While I agree with much of what you posted the KJV does contain copyist’s errors Biblical Criticism: The Reality of Copyists' Errors

 

[RLT63]

Matthew 6:15
”But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

That idea here is if God does not forgive you, then you are not saved.
Most Christians know that the forgiveness of sins is tied to salvation.

Colossians 2:13 says:
”And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”

Romans 1:31-32
“Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”

So we see that those who are unmerciful (i.e. those who do not forgive) will not make into the Kingdom of God.

Unforgiveness is hate towards another.

1 John 3:15 says: “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”

I agree with much of this post but will hold off on making a final judgement.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

While I agree with much of what you posted the KJV does contain copyist’s errors Biblical Criticism: The Reality of Copyists' Errors

I first got saved back in 1992. Right away in the beginning of my faith: I knew the King James Bible was superior to other translations.
I remember reading in a magazine about how there was an error in my Bible by scholars involving the amount of stalls Solomon had.
For a fraction of a second, I had a sinking feeling that maybe the Bible is not true or trustworthy because of this article I read back then. But then… I knew I was changed by the Lord Jesus Christ and there was no turning back. So I basically said to God that I did not have an answer to this but I was going to trust that He had an answer that He would reveal to me in His timing. That is exactly what happened many years later. God gave me the answer for this supposed contradiction.

You can check it out here:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-biblical-defense-against-supposed-contradictions-in-the-kjv.8035969/

So you’re position is one of unbelief.
God preserved His words and they are pure as His Word says (Psalms 12:6-7) (Proverbs 30:5).
In fact, if you don’t have a perfect Bible, then how do you know that you have the correct doctrines?
You don’t unless you take God’s Word by faith in that it is all true. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

Again, the evidence I provided was just brushed aside by you and you simply repeated your words of unbelief again in God’s Word (Just like you do with the topic of Soteriology). You want whatever truth you prefer (Despite the reality of how things are). I believe the Bible by faith. Many today are Bible agnostics. They don’t believe there is any perfect, inerrant, infallible Word of God that they can hold in their hands and call it the book of the LORD. The Bible talks about His words being in a book and not among a jig saw puzzle of thousands of manuscripts (For us to try and piece together).

 

[RLT63]

I first got saved back in 1992. Right away in the beginning of my faith: I knew the King James Bible was superior to other translations.
I remember reading in a magazine about how there was an error in my Bible by scholars involving the amount of stalls Solomon had.
For a fraction of a second, I had a sinking feeling that maybe the Bible is not true or trustworthy because of this article I read back then. But then… I knew I was changed by the Lord Jesus Christ and there was no turning back. So I basically said to God that I did not have an answer to this but I was going to trust that He had an answer that He would reveal to me in His timing. That is exactly what happened many years later. God gave me the answer for this supposed contradiction.

You can check it out here:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/a-biblical-defense-against-supposed-contradictions-in-the-kjv.8035969/

So you’re position is one of unbelief.
God preserved His words and they are pure as His Word says (Psalms 12:6-7) (Proverbs 30:5).
In fact, if you don’t have a perfect Bible, then how do you know that you have the correct doctrines?
You don’t unless you take God’s Word by faith in that it is all true. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

Again, the evidence I provided was just brushed aside by you and you simply repeated your words of unbelief again in God’s Word (Just like you do with the topic of Soteriology). You want whatever truth you prefer (Despite the reality of how things are). I believe the Bible by faith. Many today are Bible agnostics. They don’t believe there is any perfect, inerrant, infallible Word of God that they can hold in their hands and call it the book of the LORD. The Bible talks about His words being in a book and not among a jig saw puzzle of thousands of manuscripts (For us to try and piece together).

As I said I agree with much of what you posted. God’s doctrines have been preserved even in the worst translations. But I acknowledge mistakes where they exist.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I said I agree with much of what you posted. God’s doctrines have been preserved even in the worst translations. But I acknowledge mistakes where they exist.

No. God’s doctrines have not been preserved even in the worst translations. I have already demonstrated false doctrine in Modern Translations already. Please go back and carefully look at the points I made about how Modern Translations change doctrine from the KJB. In addition, the devil’s name is placed in Modern Bibles (where they do not belong), as well. The list of problems goes on and on with them. There are too many red flags to ignore. But of course people see what they desire to see. I believe the Bible. You don’t have a Bible that you can hold in your hands and call it the perfect, infallible, inerrant words of God. Therein lies the difference between us.
I have a final Word of authority. Many today do not have one. Do you have one?

Again, if you don’t have a perfect Bible, then how do you know you have the correct doctrines?
Who becomes the final arbiter of truth? You, or the Bible?
If it is the Bible… which Bible?
The Alexandrian Manuscripts come from ALEXANDRIA, Egypt.
Arianism came from Alexandria. This is why 1 John 5:7 is removed in your Bible.
In addition, Egypt is predominantly spoken as being negative and not positive.
The King James Bible comes from the Antiochian line of manuscripts.
Christians were first called Christians in Antioch.
Westcott and Hort were into Catholicism. They popularized the Modern Translation movement and Textual Criticism.
The Nestle and Aland text (using Westcott and Hort’s work) was supervised by the Vatican.
This is the NT Greek today used for most all of your Modern Bibles.

 

[RLT63]

No. God’s doctrines have not been preserved even in the worst translations. I have already demonstrated false doctrine in Modern Translations already. Please go back and carefully look at the points I made about how Modern Translations change doctrine from the KJB. In addition, the devil’s name is placed in Modern Bibles (where they do not belong), as well. The list of problems goes on and on with them. There are too many red flags to ignore. But of course people see what they desire to see. I believe the Bible. You don’t have a Bible that you can hold in your hands and call it the perfect, infallible, inerrant words of God. Therein lies the difference between us.
I have a final Word of authority. Many today do not have one. Do you have one?

Again, if you don’t have a perfect Bible, then how do you know you have the correct doctrines?
Who becomes the final arbiter of truth? You, or the Bible?
If it is the Bible… which Bible?
The Alexandrian Manuscripts come from ALEXANDRIA, Egypt.
Arianism came from Alexandria. This is why 1 John 5:7 is removed in your Bible.
In addition, Egypt is predominantly spoken as being negative and not positive.
The King James Bible comes from the Antiochian line of manuscripts.
Christians were first called Christians in Antioch.
Westcott and Hort were into Catholicism. They popularized the Modern Translation movement and Textual Criticism.
The Nestle and Aland text (using Westcott and Hort’s work) was supervised by the Vatican.
This is the NT Greek today used for most all of your Modern Bibles.

What's missing from your Bible?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot Note: The following is from a study I did and not taken from the above link. The linked article is very long but very informative. So how did we end up with changes and verses being deleted out of the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

3 tenses of salvation.

We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin. (Justification)

We are being saved from the POWER of sin. (ongoing Sanctification)

We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin. (Glorification)

What did he mean when he said not to judge people? Matthew 7:1-5

That we should take the plank out of our own eye, as more often than not, there will be one there. Who am I to judge another man's servant?
Now, back to lukewarm...??

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

MTt. 5:6
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.

 

[RLT63]

That we should take the plank out of our own eye, as more often than not, there will be one there. Who am I to judge another man's servant?
Now, back to lukewarm...??

It’s self explanatory

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What's missing from your Bible?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot Note: The following is from a study I did and not taken from the above link. The linked article is very long but very informative. So how did we end up with changes and verses being deleted out of the...

www.christianforums.com

I read a little of the article from Berean Patriot and it makes the same errors that Textual Critics always make. They desire to change the facts of manuscript evidence. It’s called Textual Criticism and that is the problem. Nobody should criticize the text of the Bible. God’s Word should change us and we should not change the Bible (When we see something we don’t like or we think it may be an error - when it may not be an error).

Here are two articles by WayofLife Literature that dispels their false line of thinking.

Is the Received Text Based on a Few Late Manuscripts?

The Ungodly Fruit of Modern Textual Criticism

The Ungodly Fruit of Modern Textual Criticism

www.wayoflife.org

Another problem with the Berean Patriot article is that it criticizes words like “hell.”

A good article to read that makes the Textual Critics look silly is the one by Will Kinney.

Build a Free Website | VistaPrint

Design and create a professional website with the Wix website builder. Choose from customizable templates and design, then select the features that your business needs.

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(Note: Please keep in mind that I do not believe in Eternal Torment like Will Kinney. I believe in Dualistic Conditional Immortality - See this write up here to learn more about it - if you are interested).

Again.… like ALL Bible subjects… we should be able to defend our position using the Bible.
Meaning: If you approach the Bible issue (of which Bible we are to follow), then you need to back that approach up with the Word of God.
Do we see apostles and prophets looking to a more ancient language or looking to many manuscripts to understand what God said? Or do we see God preserving copies of His Word in the current language of the time?

Also, consider the uniqueness of history Involving the KJB (a special time in history), vs. the sad history of Textual Criticism (Which is tied to Modernism and the attack on beloved doctrines and verses).

There is also Biblical numerics, as well.
All these things play a factor in finding the truth.
Most just latch on to Textual Criticism because that is what they have been taught.
Sometimes you have to unlearn what men have taught you and just read the Bible for yourself and let God talk to you instead.

For you can waste your whole life trying to figure out what God said (by looking to see what is false or correct in the Bible or understanding the original languages and or finding the right manuscripts to piece together what you believe is close to the Word of God, OR… you can just believe the Bible by faith and be busy to live out the faith in doing what God commands of us (In giving glory to Him).

Side Note:

Oh, and by the way, I cannot discuss the KJB issue as being the one and only perfect Word of God in that thread link at ChristianForums you gave me. It was my passionate defense of the KJB being the Word of God that led to the board staff creating a rule in saying that it was a divisive topic at CF. In other words, I was the one who caused the KJB topic discussion to be banned at ChristianForums because of my passionate defense of God’s Word. Personally, I see it as a suppressing of the freedom of speech, and that is why I moved here at ChristianityBoard to talk about the truth.

But I know… Truth can sometimes be divisive.
For Jesus said He came not to send peace, but a sword.

Side Note 2:

Please know that I also do not share David Cloud’s viewpoint on the KJB, either.
I believe the KJB is perfect, and a divinely inspired copy of the Hebrew and Greek in 1600’s English.
I am Core KJB, and the King James Bible is my core foundation. This means I am not KJB Only (Where I would discourage others to never use a Modern Bible). I believe we must use Modern Bibles to help update the 1600’s English in the King James Bible because there are many verses and phrases that are very difficult to our modern understanding in the KJB. That said, on the other hand, Modern Bibles cannot be our final word of authority either because they change doctrines, and they have many blatant errors and problems within them (like the devil’s name being placed in them where it does not belong, etc.).

Also, keep in mind that I am not into Ruckmanism, either. I don’t believe the KJB is advanced revelation. I see it as simply saying the same thing as the Hebrew and Greek. Granted our Bible today does have the update of chapter and verse numbers and I believe that this was also a divine intervention. But the chapter and verse numbers really are not additions to the Bible in a way that changes the message but they are merely there for our reference to find different sections or specific words or sentences in the Bible. Why would I think that the chapter and verse numbers are divine. Well, I would encourage you to watch some Mike Hoggard YouTube videos on the King James Code to find out the full facts on this one. But to give you a taste: Is it just a coincidence that Exodus chapter 33 is the chapter where God shows His back parts to Moses, and yet… we have 33 bones in our spine? There are tons of things like this and it is enough to make you rock back and forth in a corner somewhere in the awe of God. Then there also the number 46 I discovered, as well.

The TRUTH About the Number 46 Meaning in the Bible

The Amazing Bible Number 46. As many of you may be aware of: In the realm of medical science, we know that there are 46 chromosomes in the human body. We know according to Scripture that under the New Covenant, our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. "Know ye not that ye are the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[RLT63]

I read a little of the article from Berean Patriot and it makes the same errors that Textual Critics always make. They desire to change the facts of manuscript evidence. It’s called Textual Criticism and that is the problem. Nobody should criticize the text of the Bible. God’s Word should change us and we should not change the Bible (When we see something we don’t like or we think it may be an error - when it may not be an error).

Here are two articles by WayofLife Literature that dispels their false line of thinking.

Is the Received Text Based on a Few Late Manuscripts?

The Ungodly Fruit of Modern Textual Criticism

The Ungodly Fruit of Modern Textual Criticism

www.wayoflife.org

Another problem with the Berean Patriot article is that it criticizes words like “hell.”

A good article to read that makes the Textual Critics look silly is the one by Will Kinney.

Build a Free Website | VistaPrint

Design and create a professional website with the Wix website builder. Choose from customizable templates and design, then select the features that your business needs.

brandplucked.webs.com

(Note: Please keep in mind that I do not believe in Eternal Torment like Will Kinney. I believe in Dualistic Conditional Immortality - See this write up here to learn more about it - if you are interested).

Again.… like ALL Bible subjects… we should be able to defend our position using the Bible.
Meaning: If you approach the Bible issue (of which Bible we are to follow), then you need to back that approach up with the Word of God.
Do we see apostles and prophets looking to a more ancient language or looking to many manuscripts to understand what God said? Or do we see God preserving copies of His Word in the current language of the time?

Also, consider the uniqueness of history Involving the KJB (a special time in history), vs. the sad history of Textual Criticism (Which is tied to Modernism and the attack on beloved doctrines and verses).

There is also Biblical numerics, as well.
All these things play a factor in finding the truth.
Most just latch on to Textual Criticism because that is what they have been taught.
Sometimes you have to unlearn what men have taught you and just read the Bible for yourself and let God talk to you instead.

For you can waste your whole life trying to figure out what God said (by looking to see what is false or correct in the Bible or understanding the original languages and or finding the right manuscripts to piece together what you believe is close to the Word of God, OR… you can just believe the Bible by faith and be busy to live out the faith in doing what God commands of us (In giving glory to Him).

Side Note:

Oh, and by the way, I cannot discuss the KJB issue as being the one and only perfect Word of God in that thread link at ChristianForums you gave me. It was my passionate defense of the KJB being the Word of God that led to the board staff creating a rule in saying that it was a divisive topic at CF. In other words, I was the one who caused the KJB topic discussion to be banned at ChristianForums because of my passionate defense of God’s Word. Personally, I see it as a suppressing of the freedom of speech, and that is why I moved here at ChristianityBoard to talk about the truth.

But I know… Truth can sometimes be divisive.
For Jesus said He came not to send peace, but a sword.

Side Note 2:

Please know that I also do not share David Cloud’s viewpoint on the KJB, either.
I believe the KJB is perfect, and a divinely inspired copy of the Hebrew and Greek in 1600’s English.
I am Core KJB, and the King James Bible is my core foundation. This means I am not KJB Only (Where I would discourage others to never use a Modern Bible). I believe we must use Modern Bibles to help update the 1600’s English in the King James Bible because there are many verses and phrases that are very difficult to our modern understanding in the KJB. That said, on the other hand, Modern Bibles cannot be our final word of authority either because they change doctrines, and they have many blatant errors and problems within them (like the devil’s name being placed in them where it does not belong, etc.).

Also, keep in mind that I am not into Ruckmanism, either. I don’t believe the KJB is advanced revelation. I see it as simply saying the same thing as the Hebrew and Greek. Granted our Bible today does have the update of chapter and verse numbers and I believe that this was also a divine intervention. But the chapter and verse numbers really are not additions to the Bible in a way that changes the message but they are merely there for our reference to find different sections or specific words or sentences in the Bible. Why would I think that the chapter and verse numbers are divine. Well, I would encourage you to watch some Mike Hoggard YouTube videos on the King James Code to find out the full facts on this one. But to give you a taste: Is it just a coincidence that Exodus chapter 33 is the chapter where God shows His back parts to Moses, and yet… we have 33 bones in our spine? There are tons of things like this and it is enough to make you rock back and forth in a corner somewhere in the awe of God. Then there also the number 46 I discovered, as well.

The TRUTH About the Number 46 Meaning in the Bible

The Amazing Bible Number 46. As many of you may be aware of: In the realm of medical science, we know that there are 46 chromosomes in the human body. We know according to Scripture that under the New Covenant, our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit. "Know ye not that ye are the...

www.christianforums.com

Did you read my post? It’s not based on the Berean Patriot article that I linked.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did you read my post? It’s not based on the Berean Patriot article that I linked.

Before I try to unravel your position by reading an overly lengthy article (that may not always reveal what you believe), please give me a summary here of your position.

#1. Are you TRO (Textus Receptus Only)? (Note: This is misconception of those who claim to be TRO because it was not the Textus Receptus alone that was used to translate the KJB).
#2. Are you for Textual Criticism and yet you don’t agree with Westcott and Hort?
#3. Are you for Textual Criticism and you agree with Westcott and Hort?
#4. Do you see the Alexandrian manuscripts as more superior to the King James Bible line of manuscripts?

Keep in mind I don’t believe the New Testament KJB is exclusively is just from the Textus Receptus line.
There are 4 different variations of the Textus Receptus.

I believe the KJB comes from the BYZANTINE line (Majority Text) of manuscripts.
This is….

#1. Textus Receptus (NT) (This would include Textus Receptus English bibles and Erasmus’ work).
#2. Syriac Peshitta (2nd Century witness).
#3. Old Latin (2nd Century witness).
#5. Various papyri (In small number).

This is also known as the Antiochian line of manuscripts. Believers were first called Christians at Antioch.
Egypt is the place where the Alexandrian manuscripts come from.
Alexandria is the birth place of gnosticism and they denied the Godhead (Trinity), and that Jesus is God.
So it makes sense that the Alexandrian manuscripts would remove 1 John 5:7, and they attack the deity of Jesus Christ.

I know your position is one that seeks to attack the King James Bible as being the pure Word of God.
That’s all I know. Clarity on your position further would be helpful of how I would reply to you further.
Please do not tell me to read the article to learn of your position.
Tell it to me straight right and right now as a brief summary of your position.
If you want to be mysterious about your belief, then that really does not help anyone.
So far, you have not dealt with various verses I have put forth towards you that refutes the popular Christian view of Belief Alone Salvationism. You repeat their same mantras and sayings and yet you act like you didn’t reveal what you believed at one point on your view of Soteriology when in reality you did reveal what you believed on the forums publicly.
So I am not looking to play games here. Tell it to me straight on your position involving your approach of how you believe the Bible.
What manuscripts do you see as God’s Word, or what method do use to try and piece together someday what you may think is the Bible. What Lexicons do you use? Not all are the same. What is your final word authority when it comes to the truth in the Bible? How do you know which manuscripts are the best? Do you rely on scholars?

 

[RLT63]

Before I try to unravel your position by reading an overly lengthy article (that may not always reveal what you believe), please give me a summary here of your position.

#1. Are you TRO (Textus Receptus Only)? (Note: This is misconception of those who claim to be TRO because it was not the Textus Receptus alone that was used to translate the KJB).
#2. Are you for Textual Criticism and yet you don’t agree with Westcott and Hort?
#3. Are you for Textual Criticism and you agree with Westcott and Hort?
#4. Do you see the Alexandrian manuscripts as more superior to the King James Bible line of manuscripts?

Keep in mind I don’t believe the New Testament KJB is exclusively is just from the Textus Receptus line.
There are 4 different variations of the Textus Receptus.

I believe the KJB comes from the BYZANTINE line (Majority Text) of manuscripts.
This is….

#1. Textus Receptus (NT) (This would include Textus Receptus English bibles and Erasmus’ work).
#2. Syriac Peshitta (2nd Century witness).
#3. Old Latin (2nd Century witness).
#5. Various papyri (In small number).

This is also known as the Antiochian line of manuscripts. Believers were first called Christians at Antioch.
Egypt is the place where the Alexandrian manuscripts come from.
Alexandria is the birth place of gnosticism and they denied the Godhead (Trinity), and that Jesus is God.
So it makes sense that the Alexandrian manuscripts would remove 1 John 5:7, and they attack the deity of Jesus Christ.

I know your position is one that seeks to attack the King James Bible as being the pure Word of God.
That’s all I know. Clarity on your position further would be helpful of how I would reply to you further.
Please do not tell me to read the article to learn of your position.
Tell it to me straight right and right now as a brief summary of your position.
If you want to be mysterious about your belief, then that really does not help anyone.
So far, you have not dealt with various verses I have put forth towards you that refutes the popular Christian view of Belief Alone Salvationism. You repeat their same mantras and sayings and yet you act like you didn’t reveal what you believed at one point on your view of Soteriology when in reality you did reveal what you believed on the forums publicly.
So I am not looking to play games here. Tell it to me straight on your position involving your approach of how you believe the Bible.
What manuscripts do you see as God’s Word, or what method do use to try and piece together someday what you may think is the Bible.

I’ve already stated I didn’t believe the Alexandrian texts are superior to the Byzantine. You are really one to talk about lengthy posts. If you don’t want to read posts by other people don’t expect them to read yours. It’s interesting you bring up 1John 5:7. Your previous posts claim that modern Bible versions are part of a Catholic conspiracy but they all remove 1John 5:7, a verse that Unitarians and others claim was added to the KJV because of pressure from the Catholic Church. Johannine Comma - Wikipedia and here is the best article I have read on the subject. The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8: Added or Removed? - Berean Patriot The article supports the Comma as being authentic, The question is why would the Catholic Church want to remove a verse that supports the doctrine of the Trinity?