THE GOSPEL

[RenewedStrength316]

I wouldnt use that as gospel thats for doctrine and gaining full knowledge of our redemption
Not everybody is going to know what this means
Abraham believed God and was counted righteous...did he know he was a new creature?

DOUG, YOU JUST DISMISSED A RESURRECTION VERSE AS NON-GOSPEL.

You just said, “I wouldn’t use that as gospel.”

> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature...” — 2 Corinthians 5:17



You mean to tell me that being made a new creature in Christ isn’t core to the gospel?

That the entire point of resurrection power—the new birth, the indwelling Spirit, the death of the old man—is just optional doctrine?

Then what are you preaching, Doug?
A cleaned-up corpse?
A gospel that leaves people forgiven but unchanged?


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THE GOSPEL DOESN’T JUST JUSTIFY—IT REGENERATES.

It doesn’t just wipe a slate. It creates a new heart.

> “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you...” — Ezekiel 36:26



That’s the promise of salvation—not just pardon, but transformation.

You bring up Abraham. Yes, he was counted righteous. But what did Jesus say?

> “Before Abraham was, I AM.” — John 8:58



Abraham wasn’t the standard—Christ is.

Abraham looked forward in faith.
But we look back on a crucified and risen Savior, and we are not just declared righteous—we are made new.

If you’re still quoting Abraham to avoid transformation, you’re not preaching the cross—you’re dodging it.


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YOU SAID: “Not everybody is going to know what this means.”

Exactly. And that’s the problem. Because people are being told they’re saved without being born again.

> “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” — John 3:3



Doug, if your gospel doesn’t lead to a new creation, it’s not the gospel of Christ. It’s a decoy.

I don’t care how many verses you stack. If the cross doesn’t kill the old man, and the Spirit doesn’t raise the new one, you’re selling religion dressed in grace.


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DOUG, YOU’RE TRADING FIRE FOR FORMULAS.

You want to leave 2 Corinthians 5:17 out of the gospel? Then you’re leaving the resurrection power behind.

You want to quote Abraham instead of Christ? Then you’re preaching Old Covenant shadows, not New Covenant fire.

You want to make “new creature” an optional footnote? Then you’ve emptied the gospel of its power.

> “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” — 2 Timothy 3:5




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I say this not to shame you—but to wake you.

Because if you can brush off “new creation” and still think you’re preaching the gospel, then it’s not just your doctrine that’s off—it’s your foundation.

> “Behold, I make all things new.” — Revelation 21:5



If Christ hasn’t made you new, then you’ve met religion—not resurrection.

Repent, brother. Return to the gospel that raises the dead.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

We are told to believe the gospel

DOUG—YOU KEEP ASKING ABOUT BELIEF. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I BELIEVE.

I believe the gospel isn’t just facts to accept—it’s a fire to walk through.

You say “just believe.” But demons believe—and tremble (James 2:19).
Simon believed—and was still bound by iniquity (Acts 8:13, 23).

True belief crucifies.
It doesn’t just nod—it surrenders.
It doesn’t just agree—it dies.

> “I am crucified with Christ…” — Galatians 2:20



You ask if we need scars and surrender?
Yes.
Because grace cost blood, and if it hasn’t cost you your life, you haven’t received it.

You treat the gospel like a pamphlet—
I treat it like an altar.

> “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature…” — 2 Corinthians 5:17



That’s not theory—it’s rebirth.
And no one gets reborn without first being wrecked.


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So no, Doug—your gospel doesn’t scare the devil.

It’s safe. It’s smooth. It’s scriptural-sounding—but it’s void of surrender.

And a gospel without surrender is no gospel at all.

> “Strive to enter in at the narrow gate…” — Luke 13:24



You want to know the gospel I believe?

It kills the old man. Raises the new. And demands a crown be laid at the feet of the King.

Until that’s your gospel—
you’re still on the outside looking in.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

If you can do all that of yourself why do you need Christ's righteousness imputed to you..........[Rom 5:6 KJV] 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Doug, you just proved my point.

I can’t do it of myself.

> “When we were yet without strength…” — Romans 5:6
Exactly. That’s why true repentance is a miracle—not a mood.



God grants it.
The Spirit convicts.
The Word cuts.
And the old man dies—not politely, but violently.

Repentance isn’t me polishing myself up. It’s God tearing me down.

> “Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation…” — 2 Corinthians 7:10
It’s not human effort—it’s divine invasion.



So stop acting like repentance is a self-improvement seminar.
It’s a funeral.
And the corpse is me.


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You want to talk about Christ’s righteousness?

Then let me say this:

Christ doesn’t clothe the unbroken.
He clothes the crucified.

> “Blessed are the poor in spirit… they that mourn… the meek…” — Matthew 5



You skip the cross to get to the credit.

But God doesn’t impute righteousness until the sinner bows low, stripped of self, wrecked in the dust.

Until that happens, all you’ve got is theology—not transformation.

And Satan’s fine with that.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Did you miss what I said.................
[2Co 7:10 KJV] 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

We are to acknowledge our sin as shown to us by the Word of God and repent to obey the Word
To change our mind which changes behavior is Godly sorrow not just being sorry for it

You dont have to drum up emotions to obey God in regard to sin

Doug, I didn’t miss what you said. I pierced through it.

You reduced godly sorrow to a mental nod and a behavioral tweak.

But Scripture says it “worketh repentance to salvation”—not just improved conduct. Not a cleaned-up mind. Salvation.

That’s not minor. That’s life from the dead.

> “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” — Psalm 51:17



You keep trying to make salvation clinical, mechanical, safe.

But it’s not.

It is blood. It is fire. It is soul-deep brokenness.

It doesn’t come through acknowledgment. It comes through collapse—when a man is stripped of self and falls before the throne crying, “Woe is me, I am undone!”

You say, “We don’t have to drum up emotions.”

And I say: No one weeps over sin because they’re drumming it up. They weep because they finally see God.

> “Mine eyes have seen the King.” — Isaiah 6:5



And until you see Him, Doug, you’ll keep mistaking Bible knowledge for rebirth.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

i am being serious did you not ever notice how Paul goes thru everything like a lawyer.....logical and methodical
I think God puts forth reason not emotion
[Isa 1:18 KJV] 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
[Act 18:4 KJV] 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Doug, yes—Paul reasoned like a lawyer. But his logic was born from a broken heart and a desperate soul.

He didn’t just argue; he wept (Acts 20:31). He pleaded (2 Corinthians 5:11). He bore the marks of Christ—scars no courtroom can fake.

Reason without reverence and repentance is cold, dead, and useless.

> “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom” (Proverbs 9:10)—not mere debate.



God’s invitation to “reason together” is not a call to intellectual pride—it’s a summons to submit, to yield, to fall on your face before His holiness.

You can have every argument—yet miss the point if your heart is untouched.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

this cant be accomplished without regeneration of faith and the renewing of the mind that follows believing the gospel

Exactly. Regeneration isn’t a separate step or a magic moment—it’s the fruit of true faith—a faith that kills the old man and raises the new.

Faith isn’t mental assent. It’s death to self and resurrection in Christ. The renewing of the mind follows because the heart is crucified.

If regeneration doesn’t flow from faith, it’s dead religion masquerading as salvation.

The gospel I preach is the gospel that changes everything or it changes nothing.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Israel had to be righteous by keeping his commands to enter the earthly kingdom on earth and reign with Christ for a thousand years

Yes, Israel must be righteous to enter the earthly kingdom—but righteousness isn’t self-made, nor earned by mere external obedience. It’s the righteousness of Christ imputed and imparted, birthed by faith and powered by the Spirit.

No one keeps God’s commands perfectly apart from the grace that transforms from the inside out. Without the cross, the Law only condemns.

Your view risks turning the kingdom into a human achievement rather than God’s sovereign gift.

Jesus said, “Except your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:20).

That righteousness comes only by the crucified and risen King—not by fleshly works.

 

[Doug]

> “If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” — Luke 9:23
“He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me… and he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me.” — Matthew 10:37–38

You are relying on scripture directed to Israel
You cant follow Christ from Matthew Mark Luke and John nor from Peter and the eleven
we cant physically follow him.....we cant drop our nets and follow him
We shouldnt sell all we have as Jesus commanded Israel
We shouldnt forsake family (Matthew 19:29}
We are to follow Paul who follows Jesus.......[1Co 11:1 KJV] 1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.

 

[Doug]

Doug, if you truly believe you're a condemned rebel under wrath, then stop handling holy fire like it’s a textbook.

Bow.
Weep.
Tremble.

with all respect our salvation could be in danger by placing our response above what the gospel says

 

[Doug]

You mean to tell me that being made a new creature in Christ isn’t core to the gospel?

Not core to the gospel given to save people
Its for doctrine

 

[Doug]

is just optional doctrine?

Never said it was optional doctrine

 

[RenewedStrength316]

You are relying on scripture directed to Israel
You cant follow Christ from Matthew Mark Luke and John nor from Peter and the eleven
we cant physically follow him.....we cant drop our nets and follow him
We shouldnt sell all we have as Jesus commanded Israel
We shouldnt forsake family (Matthew 19:29}
We are to follow Paul who follows Jesus.......[1Co 11:1 KJV] 1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.

Doug,

You’ve just said we shouldn’t follow Jesus.

Read your words again. Let them burn.

> “You can’t follow Christ from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John… we are to follow Paul.”



That’s not right division. That’s open rebellion. That’s severing the Head from His body. Paul isn’t your Savior. Paul didn’t die for your sins. Paul didn’t hang between heaven and earth and absorb the wrath of God for your filth and mine.

Jesus did.

And Jesus said:

> “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.” — John 10:27



So I ask you—whose sheep are you, Doug, if the voice of Jesus is now “not for you”?

You say, “We can’t physically follow Him.” That’s exactly why He said:

> “If any man would come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” — Luke 9:23



That’s not about walking Galilee’s dirt roads. That’s about dying to self. Every. Single. Day.

You call these words “for Israel”? Then why does the Holy Spirit speak them through the Gospels to every generation? Why did Paul himself say:

> “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus…” — Philippians 2:5
“They that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” — Galatians 5:24



You talk like Jesus’ words are outdated—like He passed the baton to Paul and stepped aside.

But Paul didn’t preach another Christ. He said:

> “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith… Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” — 2 Corinthians 13:5



And here’s the terrifying truth:

If the words of Christ don’t apply to you—neither does His cross.

Don’t pit Jesus against Paul. Paul was crucified with Christ. Paul bore the marks of Christ. Paul never said to abandon the Master—he said to follow him as he follows the Master.

But you? You want Paul instead of Jesus.

That’s not discipleship. That’s delusion.

You say, “We shouldn’t forsake family.” But Jesus said:

> “He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me.” — Matthew 10:37



You say, “We shouldn’t sell all.” But Jesus said:

> “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple.” — Luke 14:33



So which is it, Doug? Do you follow Paul’s name or Christ’s command?

Because the true gospel isn’t a system. It’s a Kingdom—and Christ is King.


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FINAL WARNING

You’re mutilating the sword to dodge its edge. You’re preaching a gospel with no cross, a Savior with no lordship, a grace with no surrender. That’s not good news. That’s a counterfeit.

Return to Christ.

Or keep following Paul as an idol—and find out the hard way that no apostle can save you.

> “If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.” — 1 Corinthians 16:22



Wake up. Repent. And stop preaching a gospel that strips Christ of His crown.

Because the next time He speaks—it won’t be as the Lamb.

It will be as the Lion.

️ “Is not My word like fire,” saith the LORD, “and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?” — Jeremiah 23:29

 

[RenewedStrength316]

with all respect our salvation could be in danger by placing our response above what the gospel says

Doug—
You say our salvation is in danger if we "place our response above what the gospel says." But brother, the gospel demands a response.

Not just belief—but obedience of faith (Romans 1:5).
Not just hearing—but repenting (Acts 17:30).
Not just mental assent—but losing your life to find it (Luke 17:33).

The cross was not an idea. It was an execution.

The moment we strip away sorrow, trembling, repentance, and surrender, we’ve turned the gospel into a contract instead of a covenant.

> “To this man will I look: even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” — Isaiah 66:2



You warn me not to elevate our response—but the Word commands it.

Jesus never said, “Believe these facts and carry on.”
He said, “Deny yourself. Take up your cross. Follow Me.”

If you’ve never trembled… never wept… never truly bowed under the weight of His mercy…
Then don’t fear for my salvation, Doug.

Fear for your own.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Not core to the gospel given to save people
Its for doctrine

Doug—

So you're telling me the miracle of becoming a new creature in Christ is just doctrine?

Then what did you get saved into?

A system?
A checklist?
A theological category?

The gospel doesn't just declare righteousness—it creates it.
It doesn't just inform—it transforms.

If you're not a new creature, you're not saved. Period.

> “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” — John 3:3



You can recite Paul all day long, but if you reject regeneration as “non-essential,” then you’ve gutted the gospel and replaced it with dead information.

That’s not rightly dividing. That’s spiritually dissecting a living Christ and calling the corpse salvation.

Salvation is not a file to be opened.
It’s a resurrection to be lived.

If your gospel leaves a man unchanged, it didn’t save him. It deceived him.

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Never said it was optional doctrine

If it’s not optional, then it’s essential.

And if it’s essential, then how can it be separated from the gospel that saves?

You can’t call it “not core to the gospel” and then say it’s not optional. That’s double-talk.

Being made a new creature is salvation’s evidence.
Not an upgrade. Not a bonus doctrine. It’s what happens when the real gospel hits dead men.

> “You must be born again.” — Jesus (John 3:7)



So I’ll ask plainly:

If someone believes your gospel, but never becomes a new creature… were they ever saved?

Answer that without dodging.

 

[Doug]

> “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you...” — Ezekiel 36:26

Once again this is for Israel read more and see its when Israel comes into all the promised land

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Once again this is for Israel read more and see its when Israel comes into all the promised land

Doug, you treat Ezekiel like it’s off-limits. But Peter didn’t. On the day of Pentecost, Peter said:

> “This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel...” — Acts 2:16
And what did Joel say?
“I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh...” — Joel 2:28
So was that only for Israel too?





> You say Ezekiel 36 is just for national Israel—but the Holy Spirit doesn’t wait for borders or dispensations. He comes where repentance is real and faith is alive.



> > “A new heart will I give you...” — and He’s already given it to every blood-washed believer. Not because we claim Israel’s land, but because we’re grafted into Israel’s promise (Romans 11:17).





> Don’t tell me the cross of Christ can’t reach back into the prophets and make their words blaze with power.



> Paul preached from the Law and the Prophets:

> “But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.” — Romans 3:21
“Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures...” — 1 Corinthians 15:3





> The same Spirit that Ezekiel prophesied is the Spirit that raised Christ from the dead—and He now dwells in all who believe:

> “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.” — Romans 8:9





> If you won’t let the Old Testament speak life to the Body, then you’re not rightly dividing—you’re violently dissecting.

 

[Doug]

That’s the promise of salvation—not just pardon, but transformation.

Yes but we have to be saved first....transformation comes after

 

[Doug]

> “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” — John 3:3

Once again you are mixing Paul and Israel

 

[RenewedStrength316]

Once again you are mixing Paul and Israel

You keep retreating behind dispensational lines as if they shield you from the heart of the gospel. But the truth is this: Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith, declared that no one can see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again (John 3:3). That’s not Israel-only doctrine. That’s eternal, unchanging truth.

Paul didn’t invent a new gospel; he revealed the fullness of what Jesus began. To pit them against each other is to fracture the Word and weaken the power of salvation.

Repentance, new birth, surrender, and transformation are not optional doctrines or cultural relics. They are the essence of what it means to be saved. Without them, faith is dead—just belief without life, a name without power.

You say “once again, you’re mixing Paul and Israel,” but God’s Word doesn’t contradict. The kingdom Jesus preached is for all who are born again—Jew and Gentile alike. No fence-sitting. No loopholes.

I urge you to stop hiding behind theological fences and face the fire of Scripture head-on. Salvation isn’t a checkbox or an intellectual exercise. It is the death of the old man and the birth of the new—a total surrender to Christ, the King.

Will you step into that fire, or keep trying to warm yourself on the embers of half-truths?