The Hand of Love

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In an era of error, for the last century and a half or so, in my opinion, there is an ominous manifestation that many believers are lacking application of significant Biblical growth truths. This sad but true condition has shown itself primarily through an unawareness (thus unintentional) of preoccupation with unscriptural doctrines (yet still saved) which interfere with “being conformed to the image of His Son” (Ro 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

Conforming to the Lord Jesus’ walk in us is a separate work than that of His redemption in us, in that it’s a permanent lifestyle of godliness that manifests but not produces rebirth. One can have the Spirit but has yet to learn to “walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:25). Similarly, we can have the Son but not yet “be conformed to His image,” both of which requires time in learning the knowledge, understanding and application within the fundamentals of Biblical spiritual growth (Eph 4:15).
NC





The Hand of Love


Let us remember that God, even our God, has better thoughts for us than a portion here. He is educating us for a blessed and eternal rest, free from evil and all that would cause it, and He is intent upon the blessing of His children; and moreover He is bound by His holiness to purge us suitably (though most graciously) for the place to which He has called us. How often He allows Satan to do this painful work, and try to sift us as Job (or like Peter - Luk 22:31, e.g. “make them look like all chaff, by covering the wheat of grace with the chaff of sin”—John Gill)! But His hand and will are behind it all (Ro 8:28—NC). He gives His saints up to Satan’s hand to a certain point (e.g. Job 1:12; 2:6—NC), but only so far as to bring the heart fully to a bearing before Himself, and enter into deep questions with it, breaking down its pride (e.g. 1Co 5:5; 1Ti 1:20—NC).

But not only was the tempter absolutely limited in what he was to do to Job, it was the Lord who first proposed his case to Satan. He had His own end in it, as we see: Job gets into blessing with a knowledge of himself and of God, incomparably beyond what he had before. In all these cases, therefore, though Satan may sift and try us by a thousand trials without and thoughts within, our responsibility is to think on His hand and love who originates it all as to the ultimate purpose. By its being the enemy, the soul is sifted in it, tempted to murmur. God could not do that; and what flesh is (in relation to the “old man”—NC), is fully brought out to us, and there is a giving up of self, which enables us infinitely better to appreciate God.

Be assured then of His love. “Tribulation worketh patience: and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who is given unto us.” But for this should we murmur and complain—think God in spirit, if not in judgement, hard and wrong? With the sense of His love we are more than conquerors; none of these things separate us from it. May we know that it flows from love, a love we have known by His not sparing His only begotten Son, and by every step of His life in a world of evil.

A Jehovah of Israel stood engaged to bless, and punish in government, most patient, no doubt, but still in government which manifested outwardly the sense He had of such and such conduct. But the Father stands engaged towards much deeper work. He keeps us in His own Name as a Holy Father, and thus deals with us according to that which, as such a Father, He would work in our souls. For such a blessing He is bringing His Children in inward life to Himself. Alas, how much there is often to be done in us!

Do not faint therefore, if a rebuke is come thus. He speaks to you as a Father (and what a Father!) to a child-chastening (or training) whom He loves (Heb 12:6). Trust His love; trust it for yourself, for your family, for everything—be assured nothing escapes Him; and you will find in the end that it is not an ungracious act He has done. Let the thought of grace and of His perfect love come in between you and all your thoughts, an you will find His hand loving though it smite you, and the Lord Jesus your eternal portion in a way you never knew before.

The first feeling may be merely bowing to His hand and will; the next, the restful recognition of His hand of love; and then in a heart weaned from other things, a capacity to discover the Excellency and enjoyment of the grace of the Lord Jesus, which will cause you to bless the Day He sent it to you. Be assured His love makes no mistake with us. It is certain and infinite. We know it, sinful as we are (the old man as bad as it can be—NC), by the gift of the Son. And oh, what is our eternal portion in grace—yes, glory with Him—compared with weary trouble here below? Better to suffer in a world of sin. The manner of it must be such as makes us feel a good deal, or it would be of no use.


—J N Darby (1800–1882)


MJS daily devotional: None But The Hungry Heart

 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
4,733
2,358
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In an era of error, for the last century and a half or so, in my opinion, there is an ominous manifestation that many believers are lacking application of significant Biblical growth truths. This sad but true condition has shown itself primarily through an unawareness (thus unintentional) of preoccupation with unscriptural doctrines (yet still saved) which interfere with “being conformed to the image of His Son” (Ro 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

Conforming to the Lord Jesus’ walk in us is a separate work than that of His redemption in us, in that it’s a permanent lifestyle of godliness that manifests but not produces rebirth. One can have the Spirit but has yet to learn to “walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:25). Similarly, we can have the Son but not yet “be conformed to His image,” both of which requires time in learning the knowledge, understanding and application within the fundamentals of Biblical spiritual growth (Eph 4:15).
NC





The Hand of Love


Let us remember that God, even our God, has better thoughts for us than a portion here. He is educating us for a blessed and eternal rest, free from evil and all that would cause it, and He is intent upon the blessing of His children; and moreover He is bound by His holiness to purge us suitably (though most graciously) for the place to which He has called us. How often He allows Satan to do this painful work, and try to sift us as Job (or like Peter - Luk 22:31, e.g. “make them look like all chaff, by covering the wheat of grace with the chaff of sin”—John Gill)! But His hand and will are behind it all (Ro 8:28—NC). He gives His saints up to Satan’s hand to a certain point (e.g. Job 1:12; 2:6—NC), but only so far as to bring the heart fully to a bearing before Himself, and enter into deep questions with it, breaking down its pride (e.g. 1Co 5:5; 1Ti 1:20—NC).

But not only was the tempter absolutely limited in what he was to do to Job, it was the Lord who first proposed his case to Satan. He had His own end in it, as we see: Job gets into blessing with a knowledge of himself and of God, incomparably beyond what he had before. In all these cases, therefore, though Satan may sift and try us by a thousand trials without and thoughts within, our responsibility is to think on His hand and love who originates it all as to the ultimate purpose. By its being the enemy, the soul is sifted in it, tempted to murmur. God could not do that; and what flesh is (in relation to the “old man”—NC), is fully brought out to us, and there is a giving up of self, which enables us infinitely better to appreciate God.

Be assured then of His love. “Tribulation worketh patience: and patience, experience; and experience, hope: and hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who is given unto us.” But for this should we murmur and complain—think God in spirit, if not in judgement, hard and wrong? With the sense of His love we are more than conquerors; none of these things separate us from it. May we know that it flows from love, a love we have known by His not sparing His only begotten Son, and by every step of His life in a world of evil.

A Jehovah of Israel stood engaged to bless, and punish in government, most patient, no doubt, but still in government which manifested outwardly the sense He had of such and such conduct. But the Father stands engaged towards much deeper work. He keeps us in His own Name as a Holy Father, and thus deals with us according to that which, as such a Father, He would work in our souls. For such a blessing He is bringing His Children in inward life to Himself. Alas, how much there is often to be done in us!

Do not faint therefore, if a rebuke is come thus. He speaks to you as a Father (and what a Father!) to a child-chastening (or training) whom He loves (Heb 12:6). Trust His love; trust it for yourself, for your family, for everything—be assured nothing escapes Him; and you will find in the end that it is not an ungracious act He has done. Let the thought of grace and of His perfect love come in between you and all your thoughts, an you will find His hand loving though it smite you, and the Lord Jesus your eternal portion in a way you never knew before.

The first feeling may be merely bowing to His hand and will; the next, the restful recognition of His hand of love; and then in a heart weaned from other things, a capacity to discover the Excellency and enjoyment of the grace of the Lord Jesus, which will cause you to bless the Day He sent it to you. Be assured His love makes no mistake with us. It is certain and infinite. We know it, sinful as we are (the old man as bad as it can be—NC), by the gift of the Son. And oh, what is our eternal portion in grace—yes, glory with Him—compared with weary trouble here below? Better to suffer in a world of sin. The manner of it must be such as makes us feel a good deal, or it would be of no use.


—J N Darby (1800–1882)


MJS daily devotional: None But The Hungry Heart
Wow, as I was reading, I thought this guy is good, poetic, kind of communicating in old English but I liked it. Then I saw it wasn't written by you, but Darby. I have never read Darby - good stuff, thanks for sharing. I like when teachers put God's chastisement, trials and tribulations, even to the point that Satan is used, to refine us, sanctify us, conform us into the likeness of Christ. We all experience evil for a purpose, so that can know and appreciate God's attributes, what is good.
I always thought that God is sovereign, has a perfect plan and it has been will continue to be carried out. He factors in our flaws (fleshy acts) into His plan in each of us - how awesome is that.
In response to your opening statement about the last century or so, the condition of the church and our walk, etc., wasn't the first century or any other no different? The Letters to the Seven Churches prove the same conditions existed back then. Two churches were faithful, the rest received rebuke and were warned to repent or else.
Someday soon we will escape the flesh and be translated. Until then, some will grow to produce much fruit and some little. The workers are few, but the job will be done.
God Bless and Happy Ressurectiom Day
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and Nancy

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
37,280
24,327
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do not faint therefore, if a rebuke is come thus. He speaks to you as a Father (and what a Father!) to a child-chastening (or training) whom He loves (Heb 12:6). Trust His love; trust it for yourself, for your family, for everything—be assured nothing escapes Him; and you will find in the end that it is not an ungracious act He has done. Let the thought of grace and of His perfect love come in between you and all your thoughts, an you will find His hand loving though it smite you, and the Lord Jesus your eternal portion in a way you never knew before.
Amen!!!

There is NO shadow of turning with Thee! Thou changest not, Thy compassions they fail not . . .

Much love!
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,308
2,612
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In an era of error, for the last century and a half or so, in my opinion, there is an ominous manifestation that many believers are lacking application of significant Biblical growth truths. This sad but true condition has shown itself primarily through an unawareness (thus unintentional) of preoccupation with unscriptural doctrines (yet still saved) which interfere with “being conformed to the image of His Son” (Ro 8:29; 2Co 3:18).

Conforming to the Lord Jesus’ walk in us is a separate work than that of His redemption in us, in that it’s a permanent lifestyle of godliness that manifests but not produces rebirth. One can have the Spirit but has yet to learn to “walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:25). Similarly, we can have the Son but not yet “be conformed to His image,” both of which requires time in learning the knowledge, understanding and application within the fundamentals of Biblical spiritual growth (Eph 4:15).
NC

I don't care much for Darby, because I've known of his lack of tolerance and generosity on matters of his eschatological preferences, namely Pretrib Doctrine. I've heard that he was mean-spirited and hard-hearted towards those who disagreed with him. But this quote shows a more refined character and a certain spiritual sensitivity, and I appreciate that. We all suffer from our own "carnality" and lack of perception about ourselves.

But the subject itself is interesting to me, because I've been thinking back over my long life. I grew up in the Christian church, but in a tradition that had lost the holiness that you speak of. Until I learned about our need to "immerse" ourselves in the life of Christ, I wandered in and out of spirituality and carnality without much sense of the difference. I meandered about further as I got into my teens, and began to note that I had left my Christian upbringing and had compromised with the pagan world.

The testimony of Christian tracts and friends in the Jesus People movement brought me back to my senses when things got tough for me, and those "trials" that Darby spoke of began to discipline me and force me into recognition of my sad state of affairs. And so, yes, I thank God for that tough time that brought me face to face with a need for biblical "holiness," without which nobody will see the Lord. If we are wandering back and forth between obeying the Lord and compromising with sin, we need to fully "immerse" ourselves in a spiritual baptism, so that we live by his spiritual life, and not by our own ways.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We all experience evil for a purpose, so that can know and appreciate God's attributes, what is good.
I always thought that God is sovereign, has a perfect plan and it has been will continue to be carried out. He factors in our flaws (fleshy acts) into His plan in each of us - how awesome is that.
Hi and thanks for your reply and comments, to which I agree and like, esp. that all experience evil for a purpose. It's my understanding that the purpose for the tree of knowledge was for man to know his nature and be able to contrast it with God's holiness, so we would know His holiness. If there wasn't experience with this contrast, there couldn't have been a way to know what He wants us to know. They knew right and wrong by His commands, but this did not reveal the character of good and evil, until they partook, which in my understanding was suppose to occur, because it's not like God didn't know what they would do after commanding them. I see it that this was the way He desired to start teaching us.

Blessed Holyday to you too! God bless and God be blessed!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,308
2,612
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi and thanks for your reply and comments, to which I agree and like, esp. that all experience evil for a purpose. It's my understanding that the purpose for the tree of knowledge was for man to know his nature and be able to contrast it with God's holiness, so we would know His holiness. If there wasn't experience with this contrast, there couldn't have been a way to know what He wants us to know. They knew right and wrong by His commands, but this did not reveal the character of good and evil, until they partook, which in my understanding was suppose to occur, because it's not like God didn't know what they would do after commanding them. I see it that this was the way He desired to start teaching us.

Blessed Holyday to you too! God bless and God be blessed!

I don't at all agree that God planned for us to "fall" into sin! However, you make a very interesting statement--one that I had not thought of before! God seems to have had an alternative plan in place, in the event man fell. The tree of knowledge seems to have been planned as a path back towards redemption, should man choose this wrong path.

And in a very real sense, seeking the knowledge of God *apart from obedience* does contrast our own ways with God's ways. It is at once the knowledge of both good and evil--good because it shows us what God is like, and what we should be doing. But it also shows us evil because we're going about trying to be like God on our own, apart from obeying His word.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't at all agree that God planned for us to "fall" into sin! However, you make a very interesting statement--one that I had not thought of before! God seems to have had an alternative plan in place, in the event man fell. The tree of knowledge seems to have been planned as a path back towards redemption, should man choose this wrong path.
Always appreciate your comments, they are always applicable to the issues. Understanding God's omniscience causes me to realize that since everything that occurs in this life from beginning to end is foreknown by Him, whatever happens is suppose to happen, or He would have worked or allowed another way. Remember, He is using everything for good, even the evil, to manifest the good.

God knew they would sin even when He was telling them not to sin!
 

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,281
3,101
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I don't at all agree that God planned for us to "fall" into sin! However, you make a very interesting statement--one that I had not thought of before! God seems to have had an alternative plan in place, in the event man fell. The tree of knowledge seems to have been planned as a path back towards redemption, should man choose this wrong path.

"O truly necessary sin of Adam,
destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault
that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!"

Exsultet - Wikipedia

Peace be with you!
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,308
2,612
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"O truly necessary sin of Adam,
destroyed completely by the Death of Christ!

O happy fault
that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!"

Exsultet - Wikipedia

Peace be with you!

Happy Easter! :)

Yea, we disagree that the Fall of Adam was necessary. That's okay--it doesn't make any difference in our lives. Adam did Fall, and that's all there is to it! ;)

I personally believe that saying "God knows everything" is a sort of naïve statement. We really don't know what that means. It's sort of like asking, "Can God make a rock so big He can't lift it?" These are artificial problems that should be dealt with by asking, "What won't God do?" For example, we know He won't deny Himself. He won't be inconsistent with who He is.

My sense is that God can give us freedom to choose either of 2 paths, neither of which God knows until free agencies have played their role. This doesn't mean He's not omniscient. It just means that He knows the course of each option, even though He has given us free rein to choose as we see fit. Whatever option we choose, God has in place a remedy or consequence.

But it's beyond us to know what God knows. What really matters is what is. And we know that Man did fall, and that God from the start already had a provision in place, should we capitulate to the evil one, or even if we devise a strategy, like Satan, to freely rebel.

I personally believe that Adam could not have completely fallen like Satan, because God's word cannot fail. Adam was predetermined to fill the earth with God's children. Some, however, will fail to be in that number.
 

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
8,308
2,612
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Always appreciate your comments, they are always applicable to the issues. Understanding God's omniscience causes me to realize that since everything that occurs in this life from beginning to end is foreknown by Him, whatever happens is suppose to happen, or He would have worked or allowed another way. Remember, He is using everything for good, even the evil, to manifest the good.

God knew they would sin even when He was telling them not to sin!

I continue to appreciate your comments, even though we disagree on the necessity of sin. It really doesn't make any difference in our lives, regardless, and I consider the issue more a curiosity than a doctrine.
 

Netchaplain

Ordained Chaplain
Oct 12, 2011
2,388
901
113
Missouri
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I continue to appreciate your comments, even though we disagree on the necessity of sin. It really doesn't make any difference in our lives, regardless, and I consider the issue more a curiosity than a doctrine.
True, this issue is nonessential to the receiving of salvation. Blessed Holyday to your Family!