The "In Christ" Doctrine

[H. Richard]

Written by: Robert Pate/ posted by H Richard

This article is probably the most important thing that I have ever learned as a Christian. When I learned the "In Christ" doctrine it made an astounding difference in the way that I viewed the Bible. After I had embraced this doctrine the Bible became alive. Verses that I had never understood before now became crystal clear. It was like I had been in the dark and someone turned on the light. Many of the scriptures that I thought were for me to do, I discovered had already been done for me by Jesus Christ.

The "In Christ" doctrine has freed me from a life of religion, subjectivism, and legalism. The "In Christ " doctrine has given me a life of peace and rest in Christ.

Paul said to the Philippians, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is of faith in Christ." Philippians 3:9.

How does one get 'In Christ?" All who have accepted Christ as their savior are "In Christ." Ephesians 1:12-13 says, "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise." All who are "In Christ" have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. You can never be unsealed. You can never lose your salvation. If you fall away from Christ you never did have faith in him, you were a counterfeit.

God broke into history in the person of Jesus Christ. He clothed himself in human flesh and became one with us, but not one of us. His mission was to provide salvation for a lost and dying world. He is the new Adam and the representative of the human race. The first Adam brought sin and death upon us. The new Adam (Christ) brings righteousness and eternal life. All that Christ is, and all that he has done was for us. He is God's great gift to humanity.

God in the person of Jesus Christ has come into the world to do for us that which we are not capable of doing for ourselves. He did not come into the world to show us the way; he came into the world to be the way. By his sinless life he has offered everything to the Godhead that the law requires. By his death on the cross he has atoned for the sins of the world and has defeated the devil.

Paul said in Romans the 6th chapter, v.6 "Knowing this that our old man (Adam) is crucified with Christ. V.3, Know you not that so many of us were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. V.4, That as Christ was raised from the dead even so we should walk in newness of life. V. 8, Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him."

This is an excellent picture of being "IN Christ" Crucified with Christ., dying with Christ, raised with Christ, living with Christ. This has nothing to do with water baptism. This is the operation of God in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:1-4 "If you have been risen with Christ seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set you affections on things above, not on things of the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory."

What are the benefits of embracing the "In Christ" doctrine?

1. The "In Christ" doctrine is a death blow to religion, subjectivism, and legalism. Christ has done it all. God accepts the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.
2. This means that we can remain sinners and still be saved. We don't have to be good enough. Christ was good enough for us.
3. It means that we don't have to do good works, rituals like baptism, to go to heaven. Christ has done all of the good works for us, including baptism.
4. It means that we don't have to practice holiness, speaking in tongues, miracles, revelations, etc. We are already holy "In Christ."
5. It means that "In Christ" we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1st Corinthians 1:30.
6. It means that by faith we can rest in the finished work of Christ.

 

[H. Richard]

OUR ARK: (the “in Christ” doctrine)

2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them since they have been atoned (paid) for by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, and are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).

This is how I see it. Is this how you see it? If it is not, then why?

Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are ""in Christ"" Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life ""in Christ"" Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
(NKJ)

It is not that we no longer live and sin in the flesh, it is that since we are in Christ we are walking in the Spirit (faith in Jesus’ work on the cross) and have no confidence in our flesh. Walking in the Spirit is the same as walking (having confidence) in the work of Christ on the cross.

Eph 1:10
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things ""in Christ,"" both which are in heaven and which are on earth-- ""in Him.""
(NKJ)

When we are placed “in Christ” we are holy and without blame because He loves us and covers our sins of the flesh with His blood shed on the cross.

Psalms 23
1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside the still waters.
3 He restores my soul; He leads me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; My cup runs over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the Lord Forever.
NKJV

In verse 4 the shadow of death is the condemnation of the Law. In verse 5 the enemy is Satan.

Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice ““in Christ“” Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
(NKJ)

Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body ""in Christ,"" and individually members of one another.
(NKJ)

Rom 16:7
7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were ""in Christ"" before me.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 1:28-31
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are ""in Christ"" Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
(NKJ)

1 Cor 3:1
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes ""in Christ.""
(NKJ)

1 Cor 15:21-23
21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so ""in Christ"" all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:16-18
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is ""in Christ,"" he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
(NKJ)

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"),
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles ""in Christ"" Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(NKJ)

Gal 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one ""in Christ"" Jesus.
(NKJ)

Gal 5:5-6
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For ""in Christ"" Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. (God’s love, not ours)
(NKJ)

The love mentioned is God’s love for us. It is our faith working through God’s love.

Eph 1:3-4
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us ""in Him"" before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
(NKJ)

Colossians 2:9-11
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
(Not Legalism but Christ)
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision “””made without hands,””” by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
NKJV

Verse 11 does not mean the WE put off the sins of the body. God does that when He puts us “”in Christ”.

 

[Episkopos]

There are many winds of doctrine....that seek to make very humanly possible the things that only God can do. To be In Christ means we are with Him where He is...in Zion which is above. Being in Christ empowers us to walk the same way He did. That is the true biblical doctrine...but it requires faith so almost no one will believe it. They will settle for a religious level of understanding...as in...you have it already (says the devil mockingly).

But the child of God seeks God for these things. If that seeking is as a child with faith...then God can give grace to that one so that they actually enter into Christ and experience the power of the life to come.

People believe they can go to Disneyworld even if they have never been before ...because that doesn't take faith. But tell a person they can walk with Christ in Zion....and any semblance of faith will go out the window.

Is God really right here and now waiting for faith so that He can translate us immediately into His presence?

They who are of faith say yes.

 

[H. Richard]

Heb 12:2
2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
NKJV

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV

The children of God have (past tense) overcome the world by their faith in the works of God's Son, Jesus, on the cross.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

H.Richard, you have got the main idea...need to ex a mine our response in sanctification a bit more.
But overall you are correct, this is at the heart of the gospel.

 

[marks]

There are many winds of doctrine....that seek to make very humanly possible the things that only God can do. To be In Christ means we are with Him where He is...in Zion which is above. Being in Christ empowers us to walk the same way He did. That is the true biblical doctrine...but it requires faith so almost no one will believe it. They will settle for a religious level of understanding...as in...you have it already (says the devil mockingly).

But the child of God seeks God for these things. If that seeking is as a child with faith...then God can give grace to that one so that they actually enter into Christ and experience the power of the life to come.

People believe they can go to Disneyworld even if they have never been before ...because that doesn't take faith. But tell a person they can walk with Christ in Zion....and any semblance of faith will go out the window.

Is God really right here and now waiting for faith so that He can translate us immediately into His presence?

They who are of faith say yes.

Colossian 3:1-4
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Can we simply believe the simple words? We are with Christ in the heavenlies. All who are born again.

To be born again is to be "in Christ". If any be in Christ, he is a new creature. Look! Old is gone, and all is new! Now all is from God.

The idea that a person is "born again", yet "not in the heavenlies with Jesus" is not allowed in Scripture. If we are born again, we have body not made with hands, that is, God made, eternal in the heavens.

The teaching that someone can be a Christian, but lacks the power to live for God is denied by Scripture:

2 Peter 1:2-4
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Or, if I'm misunderstanding, and you are talking about someone who is not a Christian, not born again, then yes, they are not seated in the heavenlies with Christ.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Preacher4Truth]

There ... that only God can do. To be In Christ means we are with Him where He is...in Zion ...

They...

Do you believe anyone other than yourself is saved?

 

[APAK]

Written by: Robert Pate/ posted by H Richard

This article is probably the most important thing that I have ever learned as a Christian. When I learned the "In Christ" doctrine it made an astounding difference in the way that I viewed the Bible. After I had embraced this doctrine the Bible became alive. Verses that I had never understood before now became crystal clear. It was like I had been in the dark and someone turned on the light. Many of the scriptures that I thought were for me to do, I discovered had already been done for me by Jesus Christ.

The "In Christ" doctrine has freed me from a life of religion, subjectivism, and legalism. The "In Christ " doctrine has given me a life of peace and rest in Christ.

Paul said to the Philippians, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is of faith in Christ." Philippians 3:9.

How does one get 'In Christ?" All who have accepted Christ as their savior are "In Christ." Ephesians 1:12-13 says, "That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise." All who are "In Christ" have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. You can never be unsealed. You can never lose your salvation. If you fall away from Christ you never did have faith in him, you were a counterfeit.

God broke into history in the person of Jesus Christ. He clothed himself in human flesh and became one with us, but not one of us. His mission was to provide salvation for a lost and dying world. He is the new Adam and the representative of the human race. The first Adam brought sin and death upon us. The new Adam (Christ) brings righteousness and eternal life. All that Christ is, and all that he has done was for us. He is God's great gift to humanity.

God in the person of Jesus Christ has come into the world to do for us that which we are not capable of doing for ourselves. He did not come into the world to show us the way; he came into the world to be the way. By his sinless life he has offered everything to the Godhead that the law requires. By his death on the cross he has atoned for the sins of the world and has defeated the devil.

Paul said in Romans the 6th chapter, v.6 "Knowing this that our old man (Adam) is crucified with Christ. V.3, Know you not that so many of us were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. V.4, That as Christ was raised from the dead even so we should walk in newness of life. V. 8, Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him."

This is an excellent picture of being "IN Christ" Crucified with Christ., dying with Christ, raised with Christ, living with Christ. This has nothing to do with water baptism. This is the operation of God in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:1-4 "If you have been risen with Christ seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set you affections on things above, not on things of the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory."

What are the benefits of embracing the "In Christ" doctrine?

1. The "In Christ" doctrine is a death blow to religion, subjectivism, and legalism. Christ has done it all. God accepts the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him.
2. This means that we can remain sinners and still be saved. We don't have to be good enough. Christ was good enough for us.
3. It means that we don't have to do good works, rituals like baptism, to go to heaven. Christ has done all of the good works for us, including baptism.
4. It means that we don't have to practice holiness, speaking in tongues, miracles, revelations, etc. We are already holy "In Christ."
5. It means that "In Christ" we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1st Corinthians 1:30.
6. It means that by faith we can rest in the finished work of Christ.

@H. Richard
I'm glad you are "in Christ" and I too am...

So, then you believe you have the spirit of Christ within you? If yes, then is it a spirit of God or as many translators render it, “the Holy Spirit.’? If yes, then is not the spirit of Christ, the spirit of God of, or for Truth, as Christ is the truth? If yes, is not then the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Truth, which is a spirit of the Father, as he is the Father of all spirits; there are many others?

Just saying then, you have the spirit of Christ within you that is a spirit of the Father dedicated for our seal of salvation?


Bless you,


APAK

 

[Enoch111]

2. This means that we can remain sinners and still be saved...

Since saints are converted sinners who have turned from sins and idols to the living God and Christ (repented) , that statement is not according to Scripture.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... (Acts 3:19)

...It means that we don't have to practice holiness..

Another statement which is incompatible with Scripture.

As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. (1 Pet 1:14-16)

Christians need to make sure that no matter who is saying what, their statements must have a foundation in Scripture. So your OP is partially helpful, and partially misleading. Robert Pate sounds like a Hyper-Grace teacher.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you believe anyone other than yourself is saved?

Faulty assessments bring faulty conclusions. And no one is "saved" finally until the end of the race. To whom much is given more is required.

Your indulging in your ego just muddies the water for you to understand the truth. Look to yourself for error.

 

[Episkopos]

The"in Christ" doctrine as described in the OP is the sign of the times. It is falsehood on such a scale that it can be believed by the carnal man. The natural man always looks for a way out....a way to survive. But to be in Christ in truth means the letting go of the survival instinct and it's sinful nature. Grace is another way...a way to live the life OF Jesus by being IN Jesus.

Why would people settle for a false "saved" status for the flesh when eternal life is being offered by God?

The mystery has come full circle.

 

[APAK]

@Episkopos, I just read your Post #10: Not to be contentious here at all, although I'm really curious, as I think you are saying that you cannot know your state of salvation under after your death (the 'race' is over).

Can you explain this a bit more as it goes against the grace that God has given toward salvation in my view? And maybe this also indicates a different kind of Grace of God that you believe in, different from mine? And then I've heard you state similar words before and I keep thinking you believe we are not justified in the eyes of God ever, until he decides after the race is completed, as you might say. Then you have said in the past in similar words, that after the 'race' as in this last post, rewards are given out to those that must then have been saved all along? It's a bit confusing for me...now I do know that salvation is not fully realized until we possess new glorious bodies....

I'll leave another subject of your post #11, on how one actually loses (I guess completely?) their sin nature for another time, that I'm also curious about.

Just saying...

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

@H. Richard ...more to add from my Post #8

2 Tim 1:7 For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

So, the spirit of Christ within us is a spirit of fearlessness, power and self-control. This is another indication you are ‘in Christ.’

1 Tim 1:13-15 Though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

So, the spirit of Christ within us, also gives us faith and love. So, in this ‘Ark’ of Christ, given by the Father, for our spiritual security, we are shut in with him, his spirit, with faith and love. Not a love and faith of carnality or from the natural man/woman of our previous selves, but one injected by/from the Father that is pure and true and in Christ, thus us. How special and peculiar we really are in the eyes of the world, of the 'dead.'

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos, I just read your Post #10: Not to be contentious here at all, although I'm really curious, as I think you are saying that you cannot know your state of salvation under after your death (the 'race' is over).

Can you explain this a bit more as it goes against the grace that God has given toward salvation in my view? And maybe this also indicates a different kind of Grace of God that you believe in, different from mine? And then I've heard you state similar words before and I keep thinking you believe we are not justified in the eyes of God ever, until he decides after the race is completed, as you might say. Then you have said in the past in similar words, that after the 'race' as in this last post, rewards are given out to those that must then have been saved all along? It's a bit confusing for me...now I do know that salvation is not fully realized until we possess new glorious bodies....

I'll leave another subject of your post #11, on how one actually loses (I guess completely?) their sin nature for another time, that I'm also curious about.

Just saying...

Bless you,

APAK

Salvation is a daily enterprise. We need to be saved every day from the influence of the world, from evil, from temptations. We look to Christ to deliver us moment by moment.

What you are talking about is this modern church idea of a saved status. That's not salvation...that's an immunity from being responsible for your actions. That is not biblical grace.

Christianity is a walk...a race....not a one step.

We can walk IN His salvation by entering into Him and experiencing life from above....which is pure as God is pure. But there is no guarantee that I will always walk the same way every day. Our lives are a accumulation of good days and bad days.

Godly character is being worked into us....and spiritual fruit....hopefully. Only God can judge His servants and what we are supposed to be doing at this stage in our lives.

I think it is foolish to judge oneself let alone to justify oneself because of a doctrinal bent we happen to want for ourselves.

It is the flesh justifying itself in a "saved" status...as you see so much on this forum and in the churches in general. Utter foolishness.

Wisdom and the fear of the Lord are far better.

 

[APAK]

Salvation is a daily enterprise. We need to be saved every day from the influence of the world, from evil, from temptations. We look to Christ to deliver us moment by moment.

What you are talking about is this modern church idea of a saved status. That's not salvation...that's an immunity from being responsible for your actions. That is not biblical grace.

Christianity is a walk...a race....not a one step.

We can walk IN His salvation by entering into Him and experiencing life from above....which is pure as God is pure. But there is no guarantee that I will always walk the same way every day. Our lives are a accumulation of good days and bad days.

Godly character is being worked into us....and spiritual fruit....hopefully. Only God can judge His servants and what we are supposed to be doing at this stage in our lives.

I think it is foolish to judge oneself let alone to justify oneself because of a doctrinal bent we happen to want for ourselves.

It is the flesh justifying itself in a "saved" status...as you see so much on this forum and in the churches in general. Utter foolishness.

Wisdom and the fear of the Lord are far better.

Epi:
Without really look at your words in detail, thus far, I do see a very strange similarity or resemblance with what Roman Catholicism preaches. It 's kinda like a neo/pseudo form of sanctification/holiness that comes first and then we need to get saved cyclically and walk to prove our justification (even though the merits of Christ alone were sufficient) all throughout our lives by our own efforts. Sounds very morbid and very non-scriptural, imo. Where did you learn such a doctrine if I'm even 50 percent on target? And why do you think it is scriptural? Not asking you to write a tome, just asking for more insight and basis. Does this rid ourselves of our human nature in the process then?

Thanks

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

Epi:
Without really look at your words in detail, thus far, I do see a very strange similarity or resemblance with what Roman Catholicism preaches. It 's kinda like a neo/pseudo form of sanctification/holiness that comes first and then we need to get saved cyclically and walk to prove our justification (even though the merits of Christ alone were sufficient) all throughout our lives by our own efforts. Sounds very morbid and very non-scriptural, imo. Where did you learn such a doctrine if I'm even 50 percent on target? And why do you think it is scriptural? Not asking you to write a tome, just asking for more insight and basis. Does this rid ourselves of our human nature in the process then?

Thanks

Bless you,

APAK

There's what God does...and then is our response. Kind of like an Asdic ping trying to locate a submarine. The response is a ping in return. So we return God's love...IF we are responding.

We are meant to grow into the likeness of Christ in character. THAT is salvation...to be as Jesus in character...to learn to love and to submit to God in all things.

Then there is what God does. He gives grace and carries us so we can learn to draw life from Him and walk in His love.

God gets the ball rolling. He gives us grace to become a new creation. But He expects growth and fruit on our part. That doesn't always happen. It depends on our soil...it depends on our attitude and focus.

So then salvation is to be IN Christ....moment by moment AND it is a process towards sanctification. If we endure to the end and run legally, we will be saved. If we grow in Him, then we will get a reward.

I have learned through interaction with the Spirit. Hard lessons...and times of revival in the Spirit. Being fashioned into His likeness.

 

[APAK]

There's what God does...and then is our response. Kind of like an Asdic ping trying to locate a submarine. The response is a ping in return. So we return God's love...IF we are responding.

We are meant to grow into the likeness of Christ in character. THAT is salvation...to be as Jesus in character...to learn to love and to submit to God in all things.

Then there is what God does. He gives grace and carries us so we can learn to draw life from Him and walk in His love.

God gets the ball rolling. He gives us grace to become a new creation. But He expects growth and fruit on our part. That doesn't always happen. It depends on our soil...it depends on our attitude and focus.

So then salvation is to be IN Christ....moment by moment AND it is a process towards sanctification. If we endure to the end and run legally, we will be saved. If we grow in Him, then we will get a reward.

I have learned through interaction with the Spirit. Hard lessons...and times of revival in the Spirit. Being fashioned into His likeness.

Copy that Epi..let me write what I see....

When you said, “We are meant to grow into the likeness of Christ in character. THAT is salvation...to be as Jesus in character...to learn to love and to submit to God in all things.” All those words of yours I agree with one notable exception.

There words that you said are all about what I consider the process of the sanctification walk of one already in a saved heart condition, AFTER the sealing of Christ’s spirit within us. We cannot truly cooperate or continue to walk in love in holiness without Christ’s spirit resident in us first. No works of person can force the Father to bring in Christ’s spirit as you seem to be suggesting. In fact, you have not said anything about receiving the spirit of Christ in any of this salvage process of the sinful carnal heart.


So, let me be simplistic and try to make your doctrine of salvation as a process that I can understand.

1. God pings you with love, then in your heart. And then he expects you should ping him back with the love he just gave you. It is all up to you I guess, respond or not.

2. So, say we ping back God’s love. Then we begin into growing in the likeness of Christ – without Christ’s spirit actually within our spirit of heart it seems? And then this is the stage that you call salvation. This growing love then brings humility as Christ.

3. Then God give a type of Grace to the one that keeps pinging back to God – we walk in a learning grace of love.

4. God’s expectation then, during this walk of love, is a type of grace for us to show fruit. I guess of the spirit of Christ, although you never mention how we can do this without his spirit in us, unless we go directly to God eh and bypass Christ’ spirit altogether. Our ‘soil’ is something we cultivate within our heart then by ourselves or with the help of God? And not God through Christ I presume? We must work to keep this soil spiritually healthy and rich for grow of fruit etc

5. The goal then is to be in Christ which according to you means salvation after following the cyclic process of points 1 to 4, and keep improving until we die?

6. If we succeed in growing into Christ (although I have not the foggiest how you can know this yourself as you are setting the spiritual standards of success on your own) then we finish the race with rewards in the Kingdom

Epi: It still smells of a novel form of Roman Catholicism doctrine for salvation, that you never know your spiritual status with God, with a pinch of Protestant Luther-ism to boot ,of a type of ‘Grace’ that is alien to me right now.

Bless you,


APAK

 

[Episkopos]

1. God pings you with love, then in your heart. And then he expects you should ping him back with the love he just gave you. It is all up to you I guess, respond or not.

Or to the degree we respond. But many walk away and seek to continue their own lives on their own terms having become convinced that their eternal welfare is taken care of. A very Protestant attitude.
Being born again is receiving Christ in us...a potential that needs to be opened up into through the power of the cross. As we bear His death, His life is also manifested in our bodies. We have this treasure in earthen vessels.

2. So, say we ping back God’s love. Then we begin into growing in the likeness of Christ – without Christ’s spirit actually within our spirit of heart it seems? And then this is the stage that you call salvation. This growing love then brings humility as Christ.

Salvation is to enter into Christ by the Spirit. As long as we abide in His presence we experience His life which is eternal life. This is for our training into His kind of life....a life that is love.

We go from Christ being IN us...to us being in Christ. That is the ping.

3. Then God give a type of Grace to the one that keeps pinging back to God – we walk in a learning grace of love.

Yes...we are growing from grace to grace...faith to faith. This is the process of sanctification.

4. God’s expectation then, during this walk of love, is a type of grace for us to show fruit. I guess of the spirit of Christ, although you never mention how we can do this without his spirit in us, unless we go directly to God eh and bypass Christ’ spirit altogether. Our ‘soil’ is something we cultivate within our heart then by ourselves or with the help of God? And not God through Christ I presume? We must work to keep this soil spiritually healthy and rich for grow of fruit etc

I am assuming that we have all experienced the spiritual deposit of Christ by being born anew by the Spirit. it is a sample that if we go to God He will cause Christ's love to flow out of us continually. But most have been taught that the initial grace deposit is eternal salvation of itself...thus spoiling their walk so that they become disqualified from the kingdom race in the worst cases.

God has given us His Spirit that cries Abba ...so we keep returning to God (or not) to be filled again with His Spirit...which is to abide in Him. Being filled with the Spirit IS to abide in Christ. Being IN the Spirit is being IN Christ. The Spirit of Christ.

There is a major difference between Christ in us...a gift of grace at the beginning...and the continued walk in grace by us entering into Christ as we seek the face of God.

5. The goal then is to be in Christ which according to you means salvation after following the cyclic process of points 1 to 4, and keep improving until we die?

Yes, until we mature to the full stature of Christ. Then we no longer need to be outside of His presence as we have learned to forsake all others and all other things.

6. If we succeed in growing into Christ (although I have not the foggiest how you can know this yourself as you are setting the spiritual standards of success on your own) then we finish the race with rewards in the Kingdom

We know we are in Christ because of the power of life we are living in...the fruit of the Spirit is all powerful in us...filled with love, joy, and peace and even the supernatural light of the presence of God. No one can not realize they are walking with Jesus when they walk in the light in Zion.

Epi: It still smells of a novel form of Roman Catholicism doctrine for salvation, that you never know your spiritual status with God, with a pinch of Protestant Luther-ism to boot ,of a type of ‘Grace’ that is alien to me right now.

Bless you,

You know the life of God when you enter into Christ to abide in Him. Then it is His life in you. It is not possible to sin when you abide in Christ. But few if any can remain in that place for any length of time...until one grows in maturity.

So it is HIS purity mixed with OUR maturity. We can only hang on to HIS purity as we grow in maturity. So we work together in relationship towards the high calling of God in Christ.

Until then we go IN and OUT of the Spirit...as Jesus said in John 10. That is the process like breathing so that we learn to become spiritually mature in Christ in character. THIS is the will of God for us all. Otherwise we frustrate God's grace and purpose. We are to grow in grace and in continuity of presence with God.

I'm not concerned with what this sounds like...it is both biblical and experiential in my life.

Peace

 

[APAK]

@Episkopos ...
Epi, you said “Until then we go IN and OUT of the Spirit...as Jesus said in John 10. That is the process like breathing so that we learn to become spiritually mature in Christ in character. THIS is the will of God for us all. Otherwise we frustrate God's grace and purpose. We are to grow in grace and in continuity of presence with God.”

I completely disagree with the first word 'Until,' and your meaning of going IN and OUT, and your meaning of HOW one becomes spiritually mature. You are referring to John 10:9 as your basis of ‘going in and out’ of salvation to spiritual maturity. I believe you have misunderstood this parable completely, and to me, in a very dire fashion.

We do not go IN and OUT of Christ’s spirit. We stay in his spirit always, and never leave it. We go in and out as we must continue our lives with Christ, always in us. John 10: 3 says that CHRIST LEADS US OUT. We are led by Christ into this new life with Christ in this world. We are always becoming more and more as Christ as new spirits, or as He, not us, creates a new creature within us. Our hearts are conditioned to yield to his spirit within us more and more as we are BEING saved or are maturing in sanctification continually until the race is completed. We go in and out as we have freedom to roam as sheep and always live in the Father’s house or the Shepard’s domain. No true believer I know of, including myself, stays in behind the door of Jesus, ever. That is impossible. Not happening. I believe you have miscued in understanding this expression.

(Joh 10:9) I am the door. By me if anyone enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture.

Let me present the verse meaning of it imo and my own version…

Into Christ, the spirit of Christ, as the only door to salvation is clear I would think to all believers. The beginning of Verse 9b is an old Hebrew expression of safety and security in one’s life under God’s roof of protection. Notice that one has FIRST to be, in Christ, initially to be saved, or in the beginning process and then walking in maturing salvation. We start by going through, into or be immersed into (baptized into) Christ. And we stay baptized! As if, one who is first a new saved person goes into the relationship with Christ, close to his protection of the Shepard or Christ. This is the safest pasture or area away from the wolves and other prey. We start as babes in Christ. Then as you described as breathing, which is appropriate, a saved or being saved person that is sealed for salvation matures in Christ in their life, going out to the fields or living in the world. This is inevitable. The kicker is that even though we MUST go out, the Shepard or Christ knows his sheep and they listen to him and his calling. They are never really away from his protection and security. They are always IN Christ ( he is the new temple and is carried within us – we are the temple of God) whether they need his protection or not, they are simultaneously in the field of life and back into the secure location where they first began as a new lamb of the Shepard, or Christ. They never actually move away for Christ or salvation.

This never means a lamb/sheep goes out of the door he or she is considered unsaved. That would be nonsense imo

There is no scripture I know of that says we go in and out of salvation in our growth to gaining some type of full (justification) for ‘salvation.’

(Joh 10:2) But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

(Joh 10:3) To him the gatekeeper opens the gate, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his sheep by name and leads them out.

(Joh 10:14) I am the good shepherd, and I know my own and my own know me.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[H. Richard]

The Judgement seat of Jesus;

1 Cor 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV