The Law 430 years later did not...

[Hiddenthings]

Again, the language that you have used does not reflect the language that Christ used when He refreshed the Salvation Covenant and the "Law." Without the "Law," mankind has no gauge by which he can determine whether or not he, i.e. mankind, has sinned, by tuning away from God.

The sin of turning away from God is like having a line in the sand which disappears as the winds of time hides the line in the sand and we step over that line in the sand without realising that we have. When we step over this line in the sand, we lose our moral compass, and the "moral" aspects of the Law reveals to us that we have actually turned away from God and begun to act God like in our own strength.

The traveller encourages us to turn away from God, to become like him, in our quest to become more like God.

Can I ask you a question in the hope of clarifying both positions.

Is the Mosaic Law today an enforceable Covenant?

 

[Jay Ross]

Can I ask you a question in the hope of clarifying both positions.

Is the Mosaic Law today an enforceable Covenant?

It provides the moral compass for the Salvation Covenant from the time of Adam.

If we break the first two commandments of the Ten Commandment, then our breaking of the other eight commandments of the ten commandment is our confirmation of breaking the first two commandments of turning away from God.

Matt 5:17-20: - Christ Fulfills the Law

17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

NKJV​

Matt 15:1-11: - 15 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."

3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God" — 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 "These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"

10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, "Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

NKJV​

Matt 19:16-22: - 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

18 He said to Him, "Which ones?"

Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"

21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

NKJV​

Matt 22:36-40: - 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"

37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

NKJV​

I believe scripture answered your question, "Is the Mosaic Law today an enforceable Covenant?", with a YES.

 

[Hiddenthings]

KJV
I believe scripture answered your question, "Is the Mosaic Law today an enforceable Covenant?", with a YES.

The answer is yes & no.

Christ teaches the following points:

“Elijah must restore all things” refers to the prophecy in Malachi 4:5–6 and Jesus’ confirmation of it (Matt. 17:10–11)

Restoration, Not Replacement: Jesus affirms that Elijah will “restore all things,” and the passage clarifies that what needs restoring is the Law of Moses, not Gentile customs or practices. The Law itself remains valuable, but it must be understood in light of the New Covenant.

Compatibility with the New Covenant: The Law’s statutes and judgments, the civil and national aspects of Israel’s law are compatible with faith in the blood of the New Covenant. In other words, the Law is not discarded, but its application is “amended” or fulfilled in Christ.

Faith as the Lens: The restoration of the Law involves aligning it with faith in Christ’s atoning work. This transforms the Law from a rigid set of regulations into a framework that is faith-compatible, recognizing the New Covenant as the ultimate means of salvation.

Civil and Ecclesiastical Law: Israel’s national laws (civil) and religious laws (ecclesiastical), indicating that both are part of what is to be restored not to reinstate old legalism, but to integrate them faithfully into God’s covenant plan.

Jay, like @dak, your view is too narrow!

The Law of Moses is not obsolete, yes! however, it is to be restored and fulfilled in a way that aligns with the New Covenant, particularly in its civil and moral aspects, so that it complements faith in Christ rather than contradicts it.

Do not expect the Law of Moses in its current form to be the Law which goes forth from Zion - it will not be - ever!

If you lack the understanding to see "an amended" Law - you ought to study Christ and the Apostles as they will show you the way.

 

[dak]

Jay, like @dak, your view is too narrow!
The Law of Moses is not obsolete, yes! however, it is to be restored and fulfilled in a way that aligns with the New Covenant, particularly in its civil and moral aspects, so that it complements faith in Christ rather than contradicts it.

And yet when I have explained the answer to this, so many times, you utterly outright reject it every time, no doubt because you love your paradigm king more than the Master and his teachings. You do not even believe that what you mistakenly call the new covenant is even in effect today, and rather, you claim it to be coming sometime in the unknown future. How many times have I said to you that the Master has already RENEWED the covenant in all his Testimony, which is Spirit, (John 6:63), just as the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14a). I count you now, after all these rejections of the Word, a non-believer, unworthy of my time, which is why most of the time I now ignore you.

You can pretend that I am not able to answer your ridiculous posts, but the matter of fact is that I've already now heard most of it and have refuted it with scripture that you choose not to believe: you simply haven't caught up to that reality yet, nor will you, because you have made yourself willingly blind by rejecting the Testimony of the Master and that of his apostles written in the Renewed Covenant.

 

[Hiddenthings]

And yet when I have explained the answer to this, so many times, you utterly outright reject it every time, no doubt because you love your paradigm king more than the Master and his teachings.

You have never presented the Torah as a Law which must conform to the Law of Christ or the promises its based on. Don't pretend you have dak!

You do not even believe that what you mistakenly call the new covenant is even in effect today, and rather, you claim it to be coming sometime in the unknown future.

I've never said this once, not once dak...if you can present evidence by all means - the New Covenant is in force now!

How many times have I said to you that the Master has already RENEWED the covenant in all his Testimony, which is Spirit, (John 6:63), just as the Torah is spiritual, (Rom 7:14a).

Eventually you will understand the Torah must submit to the Law of Christ - it's not just a renewed Covenant as you cannot discern its differences. You will!

I count you now, after all these rejections of the Word, a non-believer, unworthy of my time, which is why most of the time I now ignore you.

Yeah yeah - puff and wind!

You can pretend that I am not able to answer your ridiculous posts, but the matter of fact is that I've already now heard most of it and have refuted it with scripture that you choose not to believe: you simply haven't caught up to that reality yet, nor will you, because you have made yourself willingly blind by rejecting the Testimony of the Master and that of his apostles written in the Renewed Covenant.

You have been shown the truth, yet you continue to cling to the Old Covenant with all its limitations, and throughout, I have seen a persistent failure to grasp the essence of the Abrahamic Covenant.

I've repeatedly asked you for your understanding of the Abrahamic Covenant and in your persistence, you have not once revealed it.

God through Christ fulfilled all the Covenants but there is only one Law of Christ and all Covenants conform to him.

This post demonstrates that truth!

The Law 430 years later did not...

Again, the language that you have used does not reflect the language that Christ used when He refreshed the Salvation Covenant and the "Law." Without the "Law," mankind has no gauge by which he can determine whether or not he, i.e. mankind, has sinned, by tuning away from God. The sin of...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[dak]

I've never said this once, not once dak...if you can present evidence by all means - the New Covenant is in force now!

You posted the statement in a place which I cannot even quote, (because I have no posting privileges there), but here it is copied and pasted with a link to the post from the actual web address:

Quote:]
And yet you know and not once have you spoken to Jeremiah 31 and the New Covenant which He will write on their hearts.

31:29 “When that time comes, people will no longer say, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, but the children’s teeth have grown numb.’ 31:30 Rather, each person will die for his own sins. The teeth of the person who eats the sour grapes will themselves grow numb. 31:31 “Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 31:32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord. 31:33 “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people. 31:34 “People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the Lord. “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done.” Je 31:29–34.

Wow Jane, I have found your evasiveness highly interesting to watch as I know you are bound by the beliefs of a body who walked away from the Prophets teaching and took to themselves their own prophets.

Facts:

1. God will write the NC on their hearts as He has stated! Your God fails...mine does not!
2. It is not speaking to the OC!
3. These Jews will be broken in spirit and will be refined and purged of their gods and disobedience
4. Christ will be their King as promised to his father David (on earth)
5. All of them will be taught of the true Saints (Jer 3:15) who understand the true Gospel of God with Power.

Only then will you see the Israel & the Gentiles fullfill the saying in Matthew 19:30, Mark 10:31, and Luke 13:30 "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
[End Quote.

What do you think was God`s Purpose in making - the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

Of course, as Adam said…she had to “become the mother of everyone living”. (Gen 3:20) As ancient servants of God proved faithful and obedient, even when God asked difficult things of them….what excuse did Israel have? It wasn’t that they had no good examples…. Noah was asked to build an...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Hiddenthings]

You posted the statement in a place which I cannot even quote, (because I have no posting privileges there), but here it is copied and pasted with a link to the post from the actual web address:

Quote:]
And yet you know and not once have you spoken to Jeremiah 31 and the New Covenant which He will write on their hearts.

31:29 “When that time comes, people will no longer say, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, but the children’s teeth have grown numb.’ 31:30 Rather, each person will die for his own sins. The teeth of the person who eats the sour grapes will themselves grow numb. 31:31 “Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 31:32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord. 31:33 “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people. 31:34 “People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the Lord. “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done.” Je 31:29–34.

Wow Jane, I have found your evasiveness highly interesting to watch as I know you are bound by the beliefs of a body who walked away from the Prophets teaching and took to themselves their own prophets.

Facts:

1. God will write the NC on their hearts as He has stated! Your God fails...mine does not!
2. It is not speaking to the OC!
3. These Jews will be broken in spirit and will be refined and purged of their gods and disobedience
4. Christ will be their King as promised to his father David (on earth)
5. All of them will be taught of the true Saints (Jer 3:15) who understand the true Gospel of God with Power.

Only then will you see the Israel & the Gentiles fullfill the saying in Matthew 19:30, Mark 10:31, and Luke 13:30 "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."
[End Quote.

What do you think was God`s Purpose in making - the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

Of course, as Adam said…she had to “become the mother of everyone living”. (Gen 3:20) As ancient servants of God proved faithful and obedient, even when God asked difficult things of them….what excuse did Israel have? It wasn’t that they had no good examples…. Noah was asked to build an...

www.christianityboard.com

Dak, this is speaking to the future work God will do with His People Israel. There are millions of people who already have that NC written on their hearts - you do no doubt! God knows!

Do you understand the prophetical works in the OT concerning Israel being brought back in the olive tree? Romans 11?

Why do you always resist?