The Law is Established by Faith

[robert derrick]

"The Law is Established by Faith"
What exactly is your point? The whole point of the New Covenant is to make the Ten Commandments into the Law of Christ. Which is the Law of Love.

The law of love?

God is love. There is the law of the Spirit. The law of Christ. The perfect law of liberty.

The 1st greatest commandment is still love God with all the heart... and the 2nd is to love neighbor as self.

But don't read of the 'law of love'.

As Love fulfills the law (Rom 13), so by faith we establish the law. (Rom 3)

Love from the heart by faith does the righteousness of the law, rather than making the law void. We don't do away with the Law of God by faith, but rather establish it's righteousness.

We are not saved by doing the works of the law, but by the faith of God in our hearts we can then do the righteousness of the law.

We don't try and put the cart of righteousness, before the horse of faith...

 

[robert derrick]

1. Paul had to respond to an obvious objection : "Oh yeah? You're nullifying the Law and Its righteous requirements? False prophet! You're leading us away from God! God is testing us! Deuteronomy 13:1-11!" That is an obvious thought anyone will have--"If we are not under Law, doesn't that mean we can live in sin?" "No," Paul responds, "that's not what I mean. This message of peace with God by His Grace through faith doesn't mean the Law is nullified, in fact It's established (in part because Grace makes us able to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law Romans 8:4).

2. I never said believers were under the Law. You should read what I believe (eg, the OP) before trying to argue against what I believe.

Believers in the Old Covenant were underneath the law, as in a prison dug down with the law as the prison door above us.
Believers in the New Covenant are with the law, as in standing upon it to keep it: to establish it.

Rebellious children see the law of the house as a prison guard. Grown up adults see the law of the as the thing to guard, to keep, to establish, to confirm for the good of the house.

By the faith of Jesus we keep the law of Christ from the heart, and also guard it, defend it against those that would mishandle it. (Phillip 1)

 

[GracePeace]

Believers in the Old Covenant were underneath the law, as in a prison dug down with the law as the prison door above us.

Nope, the Greek for "under" means "under the jurisdiction of"--and, besides, if we granted your definition, then we'd have to apply the same to the "under" in "under Grace", which would render us "underneath, as in a prison dug down with Grace as the prison door above us" and that doesn't work in context because it's supposed to explain how sin won't have mastery over us.

Believers in the New Covenant are with the law, as in standing upon it to keep it: to establish it.

We're not under Law, we're under Grace--and by Grace the Law is established because we fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law if we walk after the Spirit (since thereby we will not walk after the flesh).

Rebellious children see the law of the house as a prison guard. Grown up adults see the law of the as the thing to guard, to keep, to establish, to confirm for the good of the house.

We're under Grace, not under Law--Paul even says he is DEAD to the Law... but only so that he might be alive to God Galatians 2:19.

By the faith of Jesus we keep the law of Christ from the heart, and also guard it, defend it against those that would mishandle it. (Phillip 1)

"Faithfulness of Jesus" not "faith of Jesus"--but, yes, He and the Father send their Spirit into our hearts, and we obtain new hearts, and the Spirit causes us to walk in God's statutes according to Ezekiel.

 

[robert derrick]

That’s blatantly obvious. The law is still in place, but not for Christians who’ve died to the law.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

The law is not for the righteous (1 Tim 1), because the law does not make anyone righteous. The law is only made to define what sin is (Rom 4), it is not made with power to deliver from sin, but rather only power to punish transgression.

We die to the law in that we die to the sin of the law, so that the law has no more power over us, since sin does not reign over us.

The law was weak, in that it did not deliver, but only punish (Rom 8). The law of the Spirit of Life by faith is powerful to deliver from the sin that the law punishes: to deliver us from the law of sin and death. By the Spirit through faith we have power to fulfill the law of God naturally, but without faith, can no man please Him nor fulfill the law of God.

We are no more under the law, but rather guardians thereof. We are able to say as David, "I love the law of the Lord". (Psalm 119)

The law of God is enmity with the carnal mind, but it is good and true to them born of His Spirit by faith.

 

[robert derrick]

Nope, the Greek for "under" means "under the jurisdiction of"--and, besides, if we granted your definition, then we'd have to apply the same to the "under" in "under Grace", which would render us "underneath, as in a prison dug down with Grace as the prison door above us" and that doesn't work in context because it's supposed to explain how sin won't have mastery over us.


We're not under Law, we're under Grace--and by Grace the Law is established because we fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law if we walk after the Spirit (since thereby we will not walk after the flesh).


We're under Grace, not under Law--Paul even says he is DEAD to the Law... but only so that he might be alive to God Galatians 2:19.


"Faithfulness of Jesus" not "faith of Jesus"--but, yes, He and the Father send their Spirit into our hearts, and we obtain new hearts, and the Spirit causes us to walk in God's statutes according to Ezekiel.

Thought I was helping you clarify your position of establishing the law by faith.

Where did I say we are under the law in the new covenant, even as they were indeed under the law in the Old? Believers are no more under the law, as under a hard taskmaster and prison guard, but rather we are guardians of the law to keep it by nature (Rom 2), and love it by the Spirit.

The law of Christ was not written to condemn the righteous, but rather the unrighteous. That does not mean the law of Christ is made void or done away. The law of God still exists to condemn those that transgress. As we too shall be condemned if we turn from faith in God to transgress His law.

Christians fulfill the law naturally, and do not need be reminded daily not to be a drunkard, fornicator, covetous etc..., but if we do such things, then we are even more guilty that the unbeliever, even as the child born of the house is more guilty than a servant in the house.

""Faithfulness of Jesus" not "faith of Jesus..." ??

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." (Gal 2)

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Rev 14)

 

[GracePeace]

Thought I was helping you clarify your position of establishing the law by faith.

Where did I say we are under the law in the new covenant, even as they were indeed under the law in the Old? Believers are no more under the law, as under a hard taskmaster and prison guard, but rather we are guardians of the law to keep it by nature (Rom 2), and love it by the Spirit.

The law of Christ was not written to condemn the righteous, but rather the unrighteous. That does not mean the law of Christ is made void or done away. The law of God still exists to condemn those that transgress. As we too shall be condemned if we turn from faith in God to transgress His law.

Christians fulfill the law naturally, and do not need be reminded daily not to be a drunkard, fornicator, covetous etc..., but if we do such things, then we are even more guilty that the unbeliever, even as the child born of the house is more guilty than a servant in the house.

""Faithfulness of Jesus" not "faith of Jesus..." ??

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." (Gal 2)

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Rev 14)

If you are just agreeing with me I have no obligation to correct your myriad errors.
Good night.

 

[robert derrick]

If you are just agreeing with me I have no obligation to correct your myriad errors.
Good night.

Thanks. I'm just glad it wasn't myriad of myriad errors.

 

[GracePeace]

Thanks. I'm just glad it wasn't myriad of myriad errors.

I'm tired. Anything I don't have to do I won't right now.

 

[GracePeace]

I have given you several answers and with supporting scriptures and have proved you wrong with scriptures.
As the English say, "You are boring me now!"
At this point the ignorance of your thinking has lost its entertainment value. Good bye

Odd "coincidence" that--you got "bored" at the same time you were thoroughly debunked.
"Coincidence"--yes, nothing more than happy "coincidence".

 

[Enoch111]

The 1st greatest commandment is still love God with all the heart... and the 2nd is to love neighbor as self. But don't read of the 'law of love'.

And that is not the Law of Love? Love God + Love Neighbor? Or do you enjoy splitting hairs?

 

[robert derrick]

And that is not the Law of Love? Love God + Love Neighbor? Or do you enjoy splitting hairs?

I apologize. You are correct. Sometimes I get too sticky about correct wording with Scripture.

I will say that the Law of Love can go anywhere. From the free sex-love-peace movement to the love 'anything and everything' of the Krishna movement.