The Law & The Gospel

[StanJ]

Obviously, you did not read the entire post. What I actually said is that the Bible is intended for simple people, like fishermen, or carpenters, or housewives. I certainly never said that we do not need to study the Bible. Of course, we need to study it....the entire Bible, not just a hand full of "feel good" passages. If you had actually read my entire post, you would have seen that every passage quoted is from the Gospels. They are words that were spoken by the Lord, Himself. You remember Him...men call Him Jesus.

Indeed....the vernacular was even in the common language of the day, Koine Greek, so understood by the majority of Jews and Gentiles as the OT at that time was the LXX, written in Greek.

 

[OzSpen]

Jun2u,

I am flabbergasted that I provided an extended examination of the context to demonstrate the nature of the salvation that the people of Heb 6:4-6 (ESV) had. You refuted not a word of this, but then give this red herring:


FYI, the gist of Hebrews 6:4-6 is about someone who was brought so close to salvation but rejected it!


Could I be wasting my time in providing you with an exposition in context? Seems so!

Oz

 

[Barrd]

You are not only spiritually blind but physically blind as well!
My previous post above said: only the true believers can hear and follow the Word (Bible), and the rest are delusional.
Please don't twist what I say!!!
Peter was a child of God and therefore, could never have said that a child of God can fall away.
It is your lack of understanding the scriptures that is the problem.

1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Here, Peter not only says that it is possible for Christians to put away their good conscience, and shipwreck their faith, he names to men who have done so. Hymenaeus and Alexander evidently were former Christians who had blasphemed, and Paul had delivered them to Satan. Here, he warns Timothy to hold to his faith and his good conscience.

This passage and many others would be a ridiculous waste of ink if it were not possible for a Christian to lose his or her faith.

 

[Jun2u]

1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Here, Peter not only says that it is possible for Christians to put away their good conscience, and shipwreck their faith, he names to men who have done so. Hymenaeus and Alexander evidently were former Christians who had blasphemed, and Paul had delivered them to Satan. Here, he warns Timothy to hold to his faith and his good conscience.

This passage and many others would be a ridiculous waste of ink if it were not possible for a Christian to lose his or her faith.

To begin with, It was Timothy and not Peter who wrote I & 2 Timothy.

Just because someone goes to church does not mean he/she is a Christian and such were Hymenaeus and Alexander whom Paul excommunicated (delivered to Satan) for blaspheming the faith.

To God Be The Glory

 

[FHII]

To begin with, It was Timothy and not Peter who wrote I & 2 Timothy.

Just because someone goes to church does not mean he/she is a Christian and such were Hymenaeus and Alexander whom Paul excommunicated (delivered to Satan) for blaspheming the faith.

To God Be The Glory

No, it was paul who wrote it. It was a letter TO Timothy. Barrd got it wrong but I think it was just a mental error, ad she later noted it was Paul. Maybe you simply made the same error.

But, you are correct. The two in question may have been in the flock, but that doesn't mean they were of the flock. 1 john 2:19 explains why, and I'm not sure why some don't see this.

 

[ladodgers6]

One question for Barrd. Is the Sermon on the Mount, Gospel or Law???

 

[Barrd]

One question for Barrd. Is the Sermon on the Mount, Gospel or Law???

Yes.

 

[Barrd]

No, it was paul who wrote it. It was a letter TO Timothy. Barrd got it wrong but I think it was just a mental error, ad she later noted it was Paul. Maybe you simply made the same error.

But, you are correct. The two in question may have been in the flock, but that doesn't mean they were of the flock. 1 john 2:19 explains why, and I'm not sure why some don't see this.

Excuse me? Where did Barrd get it wrong? If I made an error, I'd like to know about it, so that I might correct it.

It was definitely Paul who wrote to Timothy...

And why are we assuming that the two in question were not "of the flock"?


EDIT....Ahh, I see. I said "Peter" when I meant "Paul".
Oops....

 

[FHII]

And why are we assuming that the two in question were not "of the flock"?
...

Well, as I mentioned, 1 john 2:19 gives the explanation. Hymeneiaus and Alexander went out from Paul's church, but they were not of the church. If they were of the church they would have not doubt continued with them. But they left so it was made manifest that they were not of them.

 

[StanJ]

Well, as I mentioned, 1 john 2:19 gives the explanation. Hymeneiaus and Alexander went out from Paul's church, but they were not of the church. If they were of the church they would have not doubt continued with them. But they left so it was made manifest that they were not of them.

These are two different issues, and a good example of why you can't just pluck something OUT of context and use it somewhere else that is NOT the same context.

John dealt with antichrists and Paul was dealing with men who refused to submit to his Apostolic authority.

 

[FHII]

These are two different issues, and a good example of why you can't just pluck something OUT of context and use it somewhere else that is NOT the same context.

John dealt with antichrists and Paul was dealing with men who refused to submit to his Apostolic authority.

Both left, both denied christ, both damned. So what?

 

[StanJ]

Both left, both denied christ, both damned. So what?

Not correct. Those in John left to preach false antichrist teachings, and those in Timothy were kicked out to be sifted by Satan so they would learn to trust in God. Two DIFFERENT scenarios.

 

[ladodgers6]

These are two different issues, and a good example of why you can't just pluck something OUT of context and use it somewhere else that is NOT the same context.

John dealt with antichrists and Paul was dealing with men who refused to submit to his Apostolic authority.

LOL...I often find myself scratching my head, when people cannot just admit when they are wrong. Christ says THAT HIS SHEEP WILL NEVER PERISH. And people with no theological rebuttal will make no case because the argument is won with that passage. They would rather just throw rocks of non-sense then to admit they are wrong. What Christ's says there in John is a PROMISE. The Promise God made with Abraham. But go figure I know you will find something absurd to say about this.

 

[FHII]

Not correct. Those in John left to preach false antichrist teachings, and those in Timothy were kicked out to be sifted by Satan so they would learn to trust in God. Two DIFFERENT scenarios.

Bible never says they were kicked out. They (in Timothy) believed false doctrines and actually led some astray.

 

[StanJ]

LOL...I often find myself scratching my head, when people cannot just admit when they are wrong. Christ says THAT HIS SHEEP WILL NEVER PERISH. And people with no theological rebuttal will make no case because the argument is won with that passage. They would rather just throw rocks of non-sense then to admit they are wrong. What Christ's says there in John is a PROMISE. The Promise God made with Abraham. But go figure I know you will find something absurd to say about this.

so how exactly does John 10:28 relate to the verses in question here and now? You insinuate them into the conversation, but offer no exposition as to how they apply.

 

[StanJ]

Bible never says they were kicked out. They (in Timothy) believed false doctrines and actually led some astray.

So you don't think that Paul saying, "whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme", doesn't mean they kicked them out of where they were shipwrecked in their faith?
What happened to those two men is indicated in v19, where Paul commanded Timothy in; "holding on to faith and a good conscience".
He says nothing about them being false teachers. You can't make it say what it doesn't.

 

[FHII]

......He says nothing about them being false teachers. You can't make it say what it doesn't.

I Tim 1 isn't the only time they are spoken of.