The Maze

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Scott Downey

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Salvation is God finding and seeking out 'us'
It is not 'us' finding God.
We were the lost sheep that He came for, looked for, and found, and brought us back to the sheepfold with the angels all rejoicing.

Romans 10:20-21
New King James Version
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
 

Bob Estey

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I found growing up to be a confusing time for me.
Wondering why this or that.

We do not seek for God. If we are wandering in a maze, we are not looking for the real genuine true Christ, we are fooling ourselves if we thought we were. Maybe seeking for a false Christ to give us security, success in life, fame or money, a good marriage, or any other worldly pursuit, we did not care about the things of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus.

Romans 3
10 As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


God seeks out those He has foreknown as His own, those are the ones He is goading.
God in the OC, the Jews kept resisting His Holy Spirit.
We are now in a different New Covenant.
There is no Jewish old covenant relationship with God reaching out His hands to Israel all day long like he used to do, while they kept resisting Him stubbornly, as Stephen in Acts testifies of them. All that is over and out now forever.
For years I wanted to be friends with God. I hadn't yet learned that God had a will for me. So maybe when I refer to a maze, I am referring to finding out what God's will for me is.
 
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Bob Estey

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Salvation is God finding and seeking out 'us'
It is not 'us' finding God.
We were the lost sheep that He came for, looked for, and found, and brought us back to the sheepfold with the angels all rejoicing.

Romans 10:20-21
New King James Version
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
What if we reject his discipline?
 

Nancy

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What if we reject his discipline?
If we reject His discipline, we are "children of disobedience".

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."
Ephesians 5:6

"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry . . . "
1 Samuel 15:23a


"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"
Ephesians 2:2
 
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Bob Estey

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If we reject His discipline, we are "children of disobedience".

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."
Ephesians 5:6

"For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry . . . "
1 Samuel 15:23a


"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"
Ephesians 2:2

What if a child of disobedience repents of his sin?
 
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Nancy

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What if a child of disobedience repents of his sin?
Then, they are forgiven :) It's just not a place we want to get so as to take his grace for granted...we will never grow without his correction, IMHO.
 
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Scott Downey

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Can sheep backslide? Can evil people repent and become good people?
You must listen to what Christ says and believe, otherwise you are following a false Christ.
The true Christ warned about false christs who will arise and deceive many.

Jesus says, why do you call me good. The only one good is God. There are no good people.
  1. Mark 10:18
    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Luke 18:19
    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
We are justified as scripture says here about the seed.
  1. Romans 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Romans 9:7
    nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
 
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Bob Estey

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You must listen to what Christ says and believe, otherwise you are following a false Christ.
The true Christ warned about false christs who will arise and deceive many.

Jesus says, why do you call me good. The only one good is God. There are no good people.
  1. Mark 10:18
    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Luke 18:19
    So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
We are justified as scripture says here about the seed.
  1. Romans 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Romans 9:7
    nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
You say we are justified. Does that make it okay to sin?
 

Scott Downey

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Christ spoke to the people on the outside in parables, but he explained the understanding of them to His disciples

Here Christ is speaking a story about collecting bad fish , (what they dont want) versus good fish ( what they want)

The understanding though is not about what is being collected as bad versus good
It is about the wicked versus the just. Just here means those who are justified. You need to repeat in your mind this,
No one is good but One, that is, God.

Matthew 13:47-50
New King James Version
The Parable of the Dragnet
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
 
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Scott Downey

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You say we are justified. Does that make it okay to sin?
I get the feeling you think sin kills the sheep of Christ and they will go to hell for it.


Romans 4
New King James Version

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Christ has put away the sin that was against us, sin no longer reigns over us, reckon yourselves dead to sin but alive in Christ.
Those who are not the sheep are ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth of the New Covenant, that God no longer remembers our sins unto judgement that would result in our eternal condemnation.

Read Hebrews 8 about HOW THE NEW COVENANT WORKS
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Colossians 1
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


Hebrews 9
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
 

Bob Estey

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I get the feeling you think sin kills the sheep of Christ and they will go to hell for it.


Romans 4
New King James Version

1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

Christ has put away the sin that was against us, sin no longer reigns over us, reckon yourselves dead to sin but alive in Christ.
Those who are not the sheep are ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the truth of the New Covenant, that God no longer remembers our sins unto judgement that would result in our eternal condemnation.

Read Hebrews 8 about HOW THE NEW COVENANT WORKS
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Colossians 1
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.


Hebrews 9
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
No, I think the Lord disciplines us when we sin, and that can be very painful.
 
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