Your error is twofold: it is justification and being made righteous that is spoken of by Scripture, not of imputed righteousness by faith. You are also speaking only of morally obeying the law, as though it were the the only works, but do not acknowledge the works of faith in personal matters at hand: where is the law of offering up one's own son? Where is the law of Rahab hiding the spies?
Where is the law of salvation by works of any kind? Where is the law of sinless perfection? Apparently, you reject imputed righteousness by faith. (Romans 4:2-6) No surprise there.
The point being made is simple: obedience to the law as written, such as not committing adultery, is common to all believers in the law, and not being a transgressor is not enough to be justified. Obedience to the law is only the first step and principles of the law of Christ to repent, but is not yet going on to perfection of obeying the word of the Lord in one's own life, so as to crucify all the flesh for the sake of Jesus, even when that goes against our physical blessing from God in Isaac, and physical safety in Rahab.
After sifting through all of your psycho babble, the end result is always the same. Performance based works salvation/sinless perfection/self performance/self righteousness.
The stumbling block for faith only salvationists is to reject James 2:24 as written: A man is justified by works, and not by faith only. You can talk around it all you want, but if you reject that simple statement, then you reject all Scripture to be plainly true as written.
I don't reject James 2:24 in CONTEXT. The stumbling block for works-salvationists is to reject James 2:24 in CONTEXT and merely read it at face value in contradiction with Romans 4:2-3.
This thread shows the mystery of the apparent contradiction between Romans 3 and James 2. They are reconciled by the fact that Romans 3 addresses works pertaining to flesh as by law in circumcision, and James 2 pertains to works against the flesh as by faith in Isaac and Rahab.
False. Roman Catholics make the same error that you do in an attempt to "get around" the truth that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved apart from works of any kind.
This is just more intellectualism without a point: justification is by works, and not by faith only. Works that show the faith are necessary to prove the faith and be justified by Christ. We are imputed with righteous desire by faith, and only made righteous and justified in that faith by doing it.
Man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works (James 2:24) and justified (accounted as righteous) by faith "apart from works." (Romans 4:2-6) This is what you cannot seem to grasp and there is a reason for that.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Again, children of God doth/practice righteousness BECAUSE they are righteous and not in order to become righteous. You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.
With Christ, there is no being made righteous without being righteous, which is only by doing it. No man is being righteous without doing it. Man can imagine himself righteous by faith alone and even try to teach it, but not with God. Be not decieved: you are not righteous as Jesus is, if you are not doing it as Jesus did. Doing is in deed and in truth, not just believing and talking about it.
More salvation by works/self righteous nonsense. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our performance/works. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6) That's not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT.
The main thing that faith only salvationists have in common, is a complete rejection of obedience to the faith, as necessary to have the faith.
So you believe that a dead faith produces obedience in order to become a living faith? Faith must be alive in Christ before it can produce anything. In regards to "obedience to the faith" in Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they
HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship
FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus
FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved
FOR good works,
NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access
by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are
saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.
Use it or lose it. Without obedience, the seed and root dies in the ground. An honest and good heart is an obediently doing heart bodily, which is the only way for the good tree to appear from the ground and grow and bear fruit unto God.
The seed and root dies in the ground because it was never firmly rooted and established in the first place. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation. Unlike saving faith, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving faith? (Mark 4:17; Luke 8:6) It can't.
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on
good ground and
yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced:
some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the
good ground are those who, having
heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. I understand the rocky soil to represent a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly preapared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit in varying amounts with patience.
The separation of spiritual faith and bodily works of faith, is the great disconnect of all faith only salvationists.
As I have said before, faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. No disconnect at all. The disconnect with works-salvationists is they seem to believe that works produce faith instead of the other way around.
Once again I do appreciate you actually addressing the argument, but there is a difference between obeying the law bodily, which we are all commanded to do, and must do to be in the body of Christ, and obeying God personally to crucify all flesh and grow in the vine and bear fruit.
So how much obedience to the law bodily and flesh crucifying (which basically means sinless perfection in your theology) must we accomplish in order to be in the body of Christ? Is that how you believe we enter into the body of Christ?
There was no law for offering up Isaac, nor for hiding the spies. That can only be done by personal faith that goes against the provision and safety of the flesh. Simply obeying the law of Christ not to commit adultery does not threaten the flesh, but preserves it:
No law for offering up Isaac or hiding the spies demonstrates that it's not merely works of the law but works in general that do not save us. Works salvation and sinless perfection salvation leaves no room for error whatsoever. In the church at Corinth, Paul had to rebuke babes in Christ who were yet carnal and there was among them envying, and strife, and divisions. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) Yet Paul still referred to them as "babes in Christ." They needed to grow. Yet in your theology, there is no room for spiritual growth. It's just sinless perfection or else! Self righteous delusion.
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
I've noticed that people who profess to be Christians and constantly talk about formication, lust etc.. are typically the one's who struggle with it the most. Those who are born of God start out as babes in Christ and need to grow, which does not mean there is no stumbling along the way.
