The Mystery of 'Works' Resolved: Good works good, bad works bad.

[robert derrick]

The mystery of being saved by faith and justified by works is resolved by knowing the difference between being born to do certain works, and becoming natural at doing the same works, not by birth, but as it were by nature.


I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The answer is how and where does God's righteousness come to man, that he may be justified by Christ.

In Scripture, God's righteousness comes by the faith of Jesus, and it comes into the heart first by birth of the Spirit.

This is so plain to Christian hearers and readers, that we overlook how impossible that sounded to pagan natural man, and even to them that were Jews by nature: to them personal change always begins with a change of works first.

To natural man, all change was made by power of will, not by faith. The natural man's faith is in himself, and that faith only transforms as he sees himself changing by his works in the flesh.

Any man, by power of will, can change his works in life, so that it becomes natural to do so: he is not born to do them, but changes them at will, as it were by nature.

And so the natural man becomes a new natural man outwardly first: he becomes as it were reborn only when the outward change becomes natural to him.

The point and time of his new birth is when he sees for himself his outward change is now natural for him.

For the natural man; therefore, being born again is thus a progressive work of man's will: born by will of man to become a son of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nicodemus was Jew by nature, that was expressing the natural man's mind about being born again: to become a newborn babe naturally as it were from the womb, who only sees the natural works of this life outwardly done, and not the spiritual work of God done within.

The great reformation that Jesus Christ brings to the world of natural man, first to the Jews in the flesh, and now to all men in the Spirit, is that becoming sons of God is first by being born of His Spirit through the faith of Jesus, so that we are born to do His righteousness instantly, not progressively by power of our own will over the flesh.

And so we see how salvation and justification by grace through faith is not without doing the law, nor the righteousness of the law, but is only contrary to natural man's seeking inward righteousness of God by becoming naturally good at keeping the law.

Scripture says plainly that only the doers of the law and word are justified by Christ, but not by works of our righteousness by power of will first, and so thinking to become naturally righteous as He is righteous.

God's righteousness comes only by the faith of Jesus within the heart first, and is thus instantly manifest by works of His righteousness in the flesh, even as He was righteous in the days of His flesh.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The righteous in Christ Jesus establish the law by doing the righteousness of the law from within a pure heart, not from outward works of the law first, as it were by nature.

 

[ScottA]

The mystery of being saved by faith and justified by works is resolved by knowing the difference between being born to do certain works, and becoming natural at doing the same works, not by birth, but as it were by nature.


I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The answer is how and where does God's righteousness come to man, that he may be justified by Christ.

In Scripture, God's righteousness comes by the faith of Jesus, and it comes into the heart first by birth of the Spirit.

This is so plain to Christian hearers and readers, that we overlook how impossible that sounded to pagan natural man, and even to them that were Jews by nature: to them personal change always begins with a change of works first.

To natural man, all change was made by power of will, not by faith. The natural man's faith is in himself, and that faith only transforms as he sees himself changing by his works in the flesh.

Any man, by power of will, can change his works in life, so that it becomes natural to do so: he is not born to do them, but changes them at will, as it were by nature.

And so the natural man becomes a new natural man outwardly first: he becomes as it were reborn only when the outward change becomes natural to him.

The point and time of his new birth is when he sees for himself his outward change is now natural for him.

For the natural man; therefore, being born again is thus a progressive work of man's will: born by will of man to become a son of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nicodemus was Jew by nature, that was expressing the natural man's mind about being born again: to become a newborn babe naturally as it were from the womb, who only sees the natural works of this life outwardly done, and not the spiritual work of God done within.

The great reformation that Jesus Christ brings to the world of natural man, first to the Jews in the flesh, and now to all men in the Spirit, is that becoming sons of God is first by being born of His Spirit through the faith of Jesus, so that we are born to do His righteousness instantly, not progressively by power of our own will over the flesh.

And so we see how salvation and justification by grace through faith is not without doing the law, nor the righteousness of the law, but is only contrary to natural man's seeking inward righteousness of God by becoming naturally good at keeping the law.

Scripture says plainly that only the doers of the law and word are justified by Christ, but not by works of our righteousness by power of will first, and so thinking to become naturally righteous as He is righteous.

God's righteousness comes only by the faith of Jesus within the heart first, and is thus instantly manifest by works of His righteousness in the flesh, even as He was righteous in the days of His flesh.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The righteous in Christ Jesus establish the law by doing the righteousness of the law from within a pure heart, not from outward works of the law first, as it were by nature.

That was a bit longwinded ...but good.

It is an interesting and curious reality that the plan of God is first natural, then spiritual:

1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.​

And true even by foreshadowing and also by manifestation: "First to the Jew, then to the Greek."

 

[Robert Gwin]

The mystery of being saved by faith and justified by works is resolved by knowing the difference between being born to do certain works, and becoming natural at doing the same works, not by birth, but as it were by nature.


I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The answer is how and where does God's righteousness come to man, that he may be justified by Christ.

In Scripture, God's righteousness comes by the faith of Jesus, and it comes into the heart first by birth of the Spirit.

This is so plain to Christian hearers and readers, that we overlook how impossible that sounded to pagan natural man, and even to them that were Jews by nature: to them personal change always begins with a change of works first.

To natural man, all change was made by power of will, not by faith. The natural man's faith is in himself, and that faith only transforms as he sees himself changing by his works in the flesh.

Any man, by power of will, can change his works in life, so that it becomes natural to do so: he is not born to do them, but changes them at will, as it were by nature.

And so the natural man becomes a new natural man outwardly first: he becomes as it were reborn only when the outward change becomes natural to him.

The point and time of his new birth is when he sees for himself his outward change is now natural for him.

For the natural man; therefore, being born again is thus a progressive work of man's will: born by will of man to become a son of God.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nicodemus was Jew by nature, that was expressing the natural man's mind about being born again: to become a newborn babe naturally as it were from the womb, who only sees the natural works of this life outwardly done, and not the spiritual work of God done within.

The great reformation that Jesus Christ brings to the world of natural man, first to the Jews in the flesh, and now to all men in the Spirit, is that becoming sons of God is first by being born of His Spirit through the faith of Jesus, so that we are born to do His righteousness instantly, not progressively by power of our own will over the flesh.

And so we see how salvation and justification by grace through faith is not without doing the law, nor the righteousness of the law, but is only contrary to natural man's seeking inward righteousness of God by becoming naturally good at keeping the law.

Scripture says plainly that only the doers of the law and word are justified by Christ, but not by works of our righteousness by power of will first, and so thinking to become naturally righteous as He is righteous.

God's righteousness comes only by the faith of Jesus within the heart first, and is thus instantly manifest by works of His righteousness in the flesh, even as He was righteous in the days of His flesh.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The righteous in Christ Jesus establish the law by doing the righteousness of the law from within a pure heart, not from outward works of the law first, as it were by nature.

Good works good, bad works bad? I would say you hit the nail on the head with that Rob

 

[robert derrick]

That was a bit longwinded ...but good.

It is an interesting and curious reality that the plan of God is first natural, then spiritual:

1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.​

And true even by foreshadowing and also by manifestation: "First to the Jew, then to the Greek."

That was a bit longwinded ...but good.

"That was good Mozart, but there were too many notes." (Amadeus)

Living souls wrapped in natural bodies is the test for spiritual beings to walk after the Spirit or after the flesh: whether to choose eternal life with the Spirit or death with the flesh.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Jesus came in the flesh to prove how the righteousness of God comes to man by obedience to the Spirit within first.

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we choose to obey the Spirit with the mind of Christ, we serve God and live, or if we choose to obey the devil with the flesh, we serve sin and die.

No man can do both and live: we either go on to perfection with the mind of Christ, unto life everlasting, or we go on sinning with the flesh, unto destruction.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Double minded Christians now know the truth of being born of the Spirit first, to be justified by Jesus Christ, and yet still live as natural men after the flesh.

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

No man can be both friends of God with the mind, and yet enemies of God with the flesh, and live forever.

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[robert derrick]

'Progressive' outward sanctification is the error of the self-righteous holiness Christians and of the double minded Christian sinners.

Like natural men reforming their own lives, they both seek to become 'progressively better' at doing righteousness of God: the former by adding more and more carnal ordinances to perfect holiness with the flesh, and the latter by continually seeking to sin less and less with the flesh.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Scripture does not say that we are cleansed inwardly first, that the outside may 'come' clean, as by progression in time, but rather outwardly we also are clean, as instantly at that time.

Sanctification of God is instant spiritually within and bodily without: Christians saints are born to do good, being made instantly righteous as He is righteous, doing God's righteousness at all times, no more natural sinners committing sin, nor like natural men seeking to progressively reform themselves outwardly.

 

[robert derrick]

Good works good, bad works bad? I would say you hit the nail on the head with that Rob

The point being that all good works are only good, because they are from a good heart, while any work done from an unrighteous heart is man's own works of righteousness.

Natural sinners cannot do good outwardly, without first being made good by the good One inwardly.

Any sinner can be neighborly and do something physically good, but only the saints are good by the Spirit within, and have power of God to do good at all times.

The Samaritan was not called the 'good' Samaritan by Jesus in Scripture, but was simply an example of how to be neighborly to all men: the first great commandment is to be good within by the Spirit, and the second great commandment is to be neighborly to any man in time of need, whether sinner or saint.

This is how there are no 'good' sinners in sight of God, but rather no sinner can do no good nor righteousness of God, which must first be from within a pure heart: any natural sinner can be neighborly, but only born saints can do good.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Natural sinners that seek to become righteous with God inwardly in time, by doing progressive works outwardly, are seeking to do the second great commandment naturally enough to begin doing the first.

First things first with God.

Sanctification within is not retroactive: the heart cannot be made clean, by first cleansing our works of the flesh.

Knowing that an outward change for the better is become natural to us, is not the born again experience of knowing the Lord:

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

No commandment can be kept in the sight of the Lord, except the first great commandment be kept by first receiving Jesus Christ within the heart.

And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

 

[ScottA]

No man can do both and live: we either go on to perfection with the mind of Christ, unto life everlasting, or we go on sinning with the flesh, unto destruction.

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do. You spoke of and recognized both, but did not separate them. That is the irony of this line of thinking.

To the contrary, properly (rightly) handling the word of truth (as Paul spoke of), the whole matter is revealed in the words you actually said: "we either go on." Which can be (as you said) "after the flesh" only--which is the error of this way of thinking...or go on properly as according to the Spirit--believing the whole word of God, that the flesh has died, and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us. So--yes, we "go on", but not as you assume, meaning not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. The problem being...that you have believed that the flesh is still alive, while the scriptures say it is not, but dead. So then, this makes you like doubting Thomas, who being in the flesh, needed confirmation in the flesh. But we do not, but have our confirmation in the Spirit.

Which then is greater? This we know, but you deny.

 

[quietthinker]

The Mystery of 'Works' Resolved: Good works good, bad works bad.
and no works ensures being fired!

 

[Robert Gwin]

The point being that all good works are only good, because they are from a good heart, while any work done from an unrighteous heart is man's own works of righteousness.

Natural sinners cannot do good outwardly, without first being made good by the good One inwardly.

Any sinner can be neighborly and do something physically good, but only the saints are good by the Spirit within, and have power of God to do good at all times.

The Samaritan was not called the 'good' Samaritan by Jesus in Scripture, but was simply an example of how to be neighborly to all men: the first great commandment is to be good within by the Spirit, and the second great commandment is to be neighborly to any man in time of need, whether sinner or saint.

This is how there are no 'good' sinners in sight of God, but rather no sinner can do no good nor righteousness of God, which must first be from within a pure heart: any natural sinner can be neighborly, but only born saints can do good.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Natural sinners that seek to become righteous with God inwardly in time, by doing progressive works outwardly, are seeking to do the second great commandment naturally enough to begin doing the first.

First things first with God.

Sanctification within is not retroactive: the heart cannot be made clean, by first cleansing our works of the flesh.

Knowing that an outward change for the better is become natural to us, is not the born again experience of knowing the Lord:

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

No commandment can be kept in the sight of the Lord, except the first great commandment be kept by first receiving Jesus Christ within the heart.

And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Yes sir I fully agree, great post about the Samaritan, and the heart condition. The greatest commandment however was answered by Jesus Rob, as he was asked that point blank, do you remember his answer sir?

 

[robert derrick]

Yes sir I fully agree, great post about the Samaritan, and the heart condition. The greatest commandment however was answered by Jesus Rob, as he was asked that point blank, do you remember his answer sir?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

The 2nd great commandment is outward, and the first is within, which is why we can't possibly obey the 2nd, until we obey the first.

Works are only good, when they are from a good heart, and hearts can only be good from God within the heart.

And so, Jesus and James show us how to love God with all the heart first: By first washing within the cup and purify the heart of unrighteousness, before seeking to cleanse the body of dead works:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

 

[robert derrick]

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do. You spoke of and recognized both, but did not separate them. That is the irony of this line of thinking.

To the contrary, properly (rightly) handling the word of truth (as Paul spoke of), the whole matter is revealed in the words you actually said: "we either go on." Which can be (as you said) "after the flesh" only--which is the error of this way of thinking...or go on properly as according to the Spirit--believing the whole word of God, that the flesh has died, and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us. So--yes, we "go on", but not as you assume, meaning not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. The problem being...that you have believed that the flesh is still alive, while the scriptures say it is not, but dead. So then, this makes you like doubting Thomas, who being in the flesh, needed confirmation in the flesh. But we do not, but have our confirmation in the Spirit.

Which then is greater? This we know, but you deny.

I am not able to decipher your thinking about Scripture, until I do so in terms of OSAS, and then I see what you are trying to teach.

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do.

The difference between the dead and the living is sinning and not sinning.

The only ones caught betwixt the two in the valley of decision are the double minded in the faith, by doing both good and evil: they desire to be alive to Christ in the mind, while being dead to Christ in works of the flesh.

They believe Jesus is the Christ, and desire to be more like Him, but like natural man of carnal minds, they only seek to do better and better by force of will: progressively getting better at being a Christian outwardly. They never simply repent of sinning once for all to have and do His righteousness at all times. They think to be righteous as the Son of God by imputed righteousness only, and not by doing righteousness and being, even as He was a righteous man in the days of His flesh.

OSAS is teaching to justify the double hearted who never repent of their double mindedness, so that they remain sinners sinning in the flesh as all sinners do, while quoting from Romans 7's condemnation of being double minded, as if it were justification for remaining so. And so they freely acknowledge themselves as remaining yet carnal, sold under sin.

Paul was being empathetic with the wretched double minded, because he no doubt once found himself the same at one point, as have others, but then he repented and went on to the perfection of Romans 8 by purifying his own heart, even as Christ is pure of heart, as have others. OSAS teaches remaining double minded for life, and denies Romans 8 as going on to perfection: they claim the no condemnation of Romans 8 by faith alone, not by any justified works of God's righteousness from a pure heart.

The whole matter is revealed in the words you actually said: "we either go on." Which can be (as you said) "after the flesh" only--which is the error of this way of thinking...or go on properly as according to the Spirit-

Either/or is the decision that every believer in Jesus as the Christ must choose to make, and the double minded do neither, which is why every Christian will at one time choose to go on unto destruction with the flesh only, or unto the first resurrection with the Spirit only. The double hearted are commanded to repent, purify their hearts, and choose only the good, and reject all evil.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve.

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

If that choice is not made, then the choice is made for us at the end of this life: if we do not repent and do His righteousness at all times, then we will still be sinning unto death and not obtain eternal salvation in the end.

Rejecting free will is the accompanying lie of OSAS, to justify not making the right choice to serve the Lord, and Him only, but to go on also serving the devil in sinning, as it were without will and denying the power of God to go and sin no more.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[robert derrick]

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do.

Believing the whole word of God, that the flesh has died, and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us. So--yes, we "go on", but not as you assume, meaning not in the flesh, but in the Spirit.

Here is where we enter into the mysterious realm of claiming the eternal life of the elect saint in Christ Jesus, without living it: going on in the Spirit with the mind, while yet walking after the flesh bodily.

1. The flesh does not die, until the Spirit departs. (James 2) The born again living souls of the sons of God die to sins, to sinning with the flesh. The flesh doesn't 'die' because of ongoing sins, while the soul lives on with imputed righteousness.

The born again living souls no die to sinning with the flesh and so condemn sinning in the flesh, even as the Son did in his flesh.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

No sinner sinning with the flesh has Christ living within them, so that it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them spiritually, while yet bodily sinning: that is the strong delusion of Dual Nature theology.

We that no longer live, are not our bodies that die in sin, but are the souls that no longer live unto themselves:

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

The soul dies to our own manner of living, so that now it is Christ alive in us, and the world sees doing His righteousness by living through Him:

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

You are instead saying something completely different from Scripture: "It is no longer we, our bodies, that live, but it is Christ that lives in us, our souls. It is no longer we, our souls, that sin, but only the body, and so the body is dead because of sins, while our 'souls' remain alive spiritually because of Christ."

Separation of the living soul from the deeds of the flesh: It's the body that does it, not my soul!

Which of course is the exact opposite of Scripture, that it is the soul that sinneth and dies, not the body.

Talk about amazing celebratory grace: No. You can't judge me for that, because I didn't do it. My body did.

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Christ does not spiritually minister righteousness into the soul by faith alone, while the dead body goes on sinning: God does not keep imputing righteousness, nor pumping the Spirit into a 'believing' soul, that has a dead body bag full of sinful holes. (That's funny. Delusional, but funny)

Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

The problem being...that you have believed that the flesh is still alive, while the scriptures say it is not, but dead.

By Jove, I think I've finally got this one. I had no earthly idea what you were talking about here in another place, but now I think I do.

1. Scripture does not say the flesh is dead, until the Spirit departs. You are saying the flesh is dead, as though the natural man and old man of sin is the physical body, which is the 'we' that no longer live: no flesh is dead until the spirit departs the body.

The natural old man is not the physical body, but is the old sinning soul of the unrighteous sinners that sin. The flesh has no sin in it's tissues, nor does the heart of the body have lust and ministers sin to it's members, by pumping 'tainted blood' of Adam through our veins. (This is also delusional comedy.)

The natural man is not the physical body of sin nature born in the flesh: and the soul is never separated from the deeds of the flesh.

The old man is not dead with lust still in his physical heart, while the new man is sitting haply in heavenly places unconditionally 'preserved' in righteousness, while the old dead physical body goes on doing what sinner bodies were born to do naturally: sinning.

The soul is the sinner, not the body. The soul dies for sinning, not the body. The flesh made of dust from the beginning is made mortal, and the flesh tissues like grass of the field have no sin nor righteousness in it at all. Neither does it live, move, and breathe without the spirit of man to do it.

 

[robert derrick]

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do. You spoke of and recognized both, but did not separate them. That is the irony of this line of thinking.

To the contrary, properly (rightly) handling the word of truth (as Paul spoke of), the whole matter is revealed in the words you actually said: "we either go on." Which can be (as you said) "after the flesh" only--which is the error of this way of thinking...or go on properly as according to the Spirit--believing the whole word of God, that the flesh has died, and it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us. So--yes, we "go on", but not as you assume, meaning not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. The problem being...that you have believed that the flesh is still alive, while the scriptures say it is not, but dead. So then, this makes you like doubting Thomas, who being in the flesh, needed confirmation in the flesh. But we do not, but have our confirmation in the Spirit.

Which then is greater? This we know, but you deny.

So then, this makes you like doubting Thomas, who being in the flesh, needed confirmation in the flesh. But we do not, but have our confirmation in the Spirit.

And so, with that delusion in mind, I can now see the spiritual twist of this erroneous teaching:

In Scripture, Thomas did not believe Jesus was resurrected, unless he saw Him personally in the flesh once again, as you say confirmation of Christ's resurrection bodily.

And here is where you get really impressively twisted:

1. I need no such confirmation of seeing Jesus bodily, to believe He is resurrected from the dead, which is the context of the Scripture. Nor do I need see miracles, signs, and wonders in this life, to believe, know, and live through Him as He is.

2. What you are doing is comparing doubters, that must see Christ's resurrected body to believe He resurrected from the dead, to needing to see the justifying outward works of His righteousness, in order to believe the spiritual resurrection of Christ by faith within!

You are actually accusing them that confirm the Scriptural need of works of righteousness bodily to be justified by Christ, is like Thomas demanding to see Jesus' resurrected body, in order to believe He is resurrected from the dead!!!

So then, this makes you like doubting Thomas, who being in the flesh, needed confirmation in the flesh. But we do not, but have our confirmation in the Spirit.

Doubting Thomas insists on works to be justified by Christ, while OSAS insists confirmation is only spiritually within: James is a doubting Thomas, and Paul is an apostle of OSAS!!!!

When you say, you have your confirmation in the Spirit, and not in the flesh, you are actually saying your confirmation of being saved and justified by Christ is spiritual only: by inward faith only, faith alone!

You don't need to see no stinking badges of works in the flesh, to prove your spiritual faith within, because you are saved and justified by faith alone!!!

You don't need to do any righteousness bodily, in order to know His resurrection within you spiritually!!!

You can know Him spiritually within by faith alone, without keeping His commandments bodily!!

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You can walk after the Spirit in the mind only!! You can walk and fellowship with Jesus int he light of the mind alone!! Your walk with god as Friend of God serving Him is with the mind, while your old dead body keeps walking after the flesh to serve the devil!!!

You teach we can believe, have, and know His resurrection within our soul spiritually, by faith alone, in the heavenly places of our own minds, no matter what that old dead flesh body of ours does in this life, because it is no longer our body, being dead below, while we are Christ's being alive above!!!!

You believe by the power of your own faith, that you can escape the righteous judgement of God, when committing sins like other sinners, because your grace by your faith saves your soul blameless in heavenly places, wherein you spiritual walk and dwell in the kingdom of your own mind!!!

Now, I can go back to your first sentence in full context of your spiritual illusion:

Most of what you wrote is both to the dead and to the living, but you have them mixed together, when they should be "rightly divided"...which you did not do.

You are saying that the living and the dead are not divided by doers of righteousness and sinners, but rather that we should not mix together the the living soul and the dead works of the body!!!!

That is incredible. I purposely try to refrain from !!!! in posts, because it gets overdone, but by all that is marvelous in Mystery Babylon the Great, I like John, must truly marvel at your ingenious capacity for the spiritual and highly intellectual illusion you must have, in order to so twist Scripture as to actually say rightly dividing the word of truth, is by rightly dividing between the spiritually living soul and the dead sinful body!!!!!

That is just astounding!!!! Sincerely, this is so delightful, howbeit in a delusional way, that I must applaud you. I believe I have belittled your thinking ability in the past, but I repent. No man can come up this stuff without a great amount of intellectual prowess and will to justify themselves as sinners, and still be saved by grace.

In matters of the truth of Scripture, we are exactly the opposite, but in ability to think through a teaching to unique perfection, you are my equal, mine being the doctrine of Christ in truth, and yours being the illusion of your own mind.

This adds a whole new and greater dimension to being 'bewitched' in the faith. Samantha and her mother Babylon salute you!

If I could get hand clap photos for you, I would do so in triplicate.

 

[ScottA]

I am not able to decipher your thinking about Scripture, until I do so in terms of OSAS, and then I see what you are trying to teach.

The difference between the dead and the living is sinning and not sinning.

No...that does not accurately describe or apply to these times. This is the error.

That is not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Sin is sin because of the law, which was given to Israel--not to the gentiles, and is not for these times. That all comes under the old covenant, but we are under the new covenant.

Sin is sin, but you are out of context and wrong regarding salvation--not because sin is not sin--but because God in regards to His handling of salvation has accounted sin only to those under the law. You may as well be telling God He is wrong about his handling of sin, the law, and salvation--but, no, it is not He who is wrong, but those who do not honor things the way He has presented them.

So, the apostles preached to the Jews, and Paul preached to both camps...and the words must be rightly divided. Which means, no talk of sin, but of love for God and your neighbor as unto yourself. Period. After which we are not told to walk in the flesh as those who were under the law, but in the spirit and in the light. Much then does indeed mean following things that were first learned under the law--but we are not under the law, and yet it is right and a commandment of Christ that we should act toward our neighbor, not according to what is lawful, but what is in love, as He also loved us.

And the rest of the error...is in not recognizing that the scriptures were to those before or on the cusp of the greatest change regarding salvation in the history of the world. As long as you use what was said regarding those who came under the law, or those prior to being born from above and dead to the flesh and sin--you are out of context and wrong with regard to sin and salvation.

 

[ScottA]

The only ones caught betwixt the two in the valley of decision are the double minded in the faith, by doing both good and evil: they desire to be alive to Christ in the mind, while being dead to Christ in works of the flesh.

They believe Jesus is the Christ, and desire to be more like Him, but like natural man of carnal minds, they only seek to do better and better by force of will: progressively getting better at being a Christian outwardly. They never simply repent of sinning once for all to have and do His righteousness at all times. They think to be righteous as the Son of God by imputed righteousness only, and not by doing righteousness and being, even as He was a righteous man in the days of His flesh.

OSAS is teaching to justify the double hearted who never repent of their double mindedness, so that they remain sinners sinning in the flesh as all sinners do, while quoting from Romans 7's condemnation of being double minded, as if it were justification for remaining so. And so they freely acknowledge themselves as remaining yet carnal, sold under sin.

This is a misunderstanding and the result of misapplying the law to those who are not under it.

To the contrary, that "double" feature that you are seeing is just God's way of bringing this "other fold" of the gentiles to salvation without the law as He did with Israel. And you telling Him He is wrong to have it all happen by means that are obviously wrong under the old covenant--well, you can defend your own position, and will. But I am telling you He has addressed it already, calling those who do "hypocrites."

My strength is made prefect in not sinning according to the old covenant. ...Oh, no--scratch that--that is not at all what He said!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

The 2nd great commandment is outward, and the first is within, which is why we can't possibly obey the 2nd, until we obey the first.

Works are only good, when they are from a good heart, and hearts can only be good from God within the heart.

And so, Jesus and James show us how to love God with all the heart first: By first washing within the cup and purify the heart of unrighteousness, before seeking to cleanse the body of dead works:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Actually Rob, many that have rejected Jehovah show love for their neighbors. In fact my neighbor across the street is such a one. I will add that with the Biblical definition of neighbor, it is truly difficult to love others when the love of the greater number is cooling off. Mat 24:12