What do you think of the Nicene Creed? Is this something that outlines Christianity - IE: points we can agree on or what?
The Nicene Creed
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Robbie
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I think it's good to lay the foundation of Christ and create the understanding that He's what saves us so that when we have disagreements about what we're building on Him we realize it's just like Paul said, "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
So we don't have to try and tear each others beliefs down because the fire of the Lord is gonna take care of that... as He's the one who adds the increase He's also the One that will destroy anything that's not of Him...
The Foundation should be celebrated more so than what's built on Him argued...
So we don't have to try and tear each others beliefs down because the fire of the Lord is gonna take care of that... as He's the one who adds the increase He's also the One that will destroy anything that's not of Him...
The Foundation should be celebrated more so than what's built on Him argued...
jacobtaylor
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- Feb 11, 2011
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ARE YOU SERIOUS? You might as well change the board name as well Catholic Board
I asure you you need to deside catholic or protestant. Or use sola scripture as the defining line. Im glad your looking for a solution none the less. Until you decide what kind of forum this is I'll hang around.
BTW hammerstone did you enjoy your conversation with Duckybill when you needed to point out that he was rejecting the OT scriptures to argue with you?
Sola scripture or no sola scripture.
There's already enough disagreement in the meaning of scripture without entertaining those like Robbie that don't believe in sola scripture. Remember what I said about those that present there case first always seem right?
I asure you you need to deside catholic or protestant. Or use sola scripture as the defining line. Im glad your looking for a solution none the less. Until you decide what kind of forum this is I'll hang around.
BTW hammerstone did you enjoy your conversation with Duckybill when you needed to point out that he was rejecting the OT scriptures to argue with you?
Sola scripture or no sola scripture.
There's already enough disagreement in the meaning of scripture without entertaining those like Robbie that don't believe in sola scripture. Remember what I said about those that present there case first always seem right?
If you believe that the use of catholic there means the Catholic church..well...I rest my case on that one.
jacobtaylor
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- Feb 11, 2011
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I don't know what else its supposed to indicate? It indicates you believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic Church. Or do you disagree with my interpretation? Im sure selene will. LOL
And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
Do you remember these words?
Mark my words,
Now you watch and see the ridicules replies and threads you get started by giving weight to those that don't regard the bible as the complete word and arbitrator of the truth.
Selene
New Member
I haven't seen this Nicene Creed before. It must be the shorter version of the longer one. I know it is not the original version, because the orginal version never had "and the Son" in it. Below is the longer version, which we say in Mass. There is also another creed, which we say in Mass as well. It is called the "Apostle's Creed" and is a much older version. Tradition says that it was written by the Apostles and the first mention of the Apostle Creed was sometime in the late second century. The Nicene Creed, however, was written in the fourth century when the Arians rose against the Church.
The Orthodox Church uses the same Nicene Creed as we do except for one difference. Below what I placed in bold is the difference. The words "and the Son" which was placed in brackets is omitted in the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church uses the original version of the Nicene Creed. It was the Catholic Church that added the "and the Son" in brackets later on.
http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm
Selene
New Member
The word "Catholic" whether with a small "c" or a capital "C" both mean "universal. The Orthodox Church, the Anglicans and some of our Protestant brothers uses the word "catholic." Others who have a problem with it changed it to the word "christian."
Hello Thankful,
No, the Apostle's Creed is very short. The Nicene Creed was written in the fourth century at the Council of Nicea.
In Christ,
Selene
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
Selene
New Member
Hello Nomad,
If you had read my post, I did mention that the Orthodox Church uses the orginal version of the Nicene Creed. It was the Catholics who added on "And the Son" to the Nicene Creed later on.
In Christ,
Selene
tomwebster
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- Dec 11, 2006
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Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
I did read your post. So? I thought you were Roman Catholic. Are you siding with the Eastern Orthodox Church now?
Selene
New Member
For a Catholic, the name means "universal." In fact, we even say that the Catholic Church is the universal Church. The Orthodox Christians also say the same thing. They also call their Church the universal Church. There are four marks to the Universal Church and "universal" is only one of those marks. Like the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church also has those four marks.
I am Roman Catholic, but what has that got to do with the fact that the Eastern Orthodox Church also uses the same Nicene Creed except that they are using the original version.
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
The word 'catholic' simply means 'universal.' In other words, believers everywhere they're found. When the word 'catholic' was used in the early Church they had no concept of eastern church and western church or Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. It was simply believers everywhere.
Do you believe that the 'original' version, which omits the filioque clause, is correct as over against mama Rome?
Do you believe that the 'original' version, which omits the filioque clause, is correct as over against mama Rome?
jacobtaylor
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Hammerstone;
you may, and probably will take this the wrong way but Im going to speak for anyone else here that believes in sola scripture. I'm more than twice your age have been a studying born again christian for 10 years longer than you have been alive. You're risking turning your forum into joke in the eyes of mature Christians. Its clear you have issues making decisions, this is the second time you have asked for public advice recently. Your understaffed, in fact I think your only staff member is a Universalist and your now asking about accepting a creed that pays exclusive homage to the catholic church. You can't get or keep staff so the entire forum can't be kept with in any kind of parameters in the first place. Let alone knowing what direction that may be, this is evident by this post. My opinion is, if you can't make a decision about the basic concept here with out asking you are probably easily influenced as well. In that case the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Those that buddy up and expect to have your ear will have there way. And you are well on your way down that path.
You need to make a decision and stick with it. Maybe then you'll have a forum with more than a hand full of active members at anyone time. You'll actually attract "christians" that more closely share a common faith. Instead of siding with the majority or the ones you like or what ever your basis of operations are today. Decide what you believe the proper boundaries should be, you can't simply let people openly slander the bible and expect to operate a Christian forum that welcomes every whim and doctrine that comes down the pipe. Your catholic or protestant If you want both support universalism but tell people that. If thats want you want then say we believe what ever you believe,welcome, and well let you teach it here as well just don't argue. But don't get upset when your one size fits all doesn't resolve endless arguments. You'll simply keep running people off and banning people as well. What a soap opera call it, as the religions turn .
I guarantee your forum will grow no matter what you decide. Just decide. And stick with it.
you may, and probably will take this the wrong way but Im going to speak for anyone else here that believes in sola scripture. I'm more than twice your age have been a studying born again christian for 10 years longer than you have been alive. You're risking turning your forum into joke in the eyes of mature Christians. Its clear you have issues making decisions, this is the second time you have asked for public advice recently. Your understaffed, in fact I think your only staff member is a Universalist and your now asking about accepting a creed that pays exclusive homage to the catholic church. You can't get or keep staff so the entire forum can't be kept with in any kind of parameters in the first place. Let alone knowing what direction that may be, this is evident by this post. My opinion is, if you can't make a decision about the basic concept here with out asking you are probably easily influenced as well. In that case the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Those that buddy up and expect to have your ear will have there way. And you are well on your way down that path.
You need to make a decision and stick with it. Maybe then you'll have a forum with more than a hand full of active members at anyone time. You'll actually attract "christians" that more closely share a common faith. Instead of siding with the majority or the ones you like or what ever your basis of operations are today. Decide what you believe the proper boundaries should be, you can't simply let people openly slander the bible and expect to operate a Christian forum that welcomes every whim and doctrine that comes down the pipe. Your catholic or protestant If you want both support universalism but tell people that. If thats want you want then say we believe what ever you believe,welcome, and well let you teach it here as well just don't argue. But don't get upset when your one size fits all doesn't resolve endless arguments. You'll simply keep running people off and banning people as well. What a soap opera call it, as the religions turn .
I guarantee your forum will grow no matter what you decide. Just decide. And stick with it.
actually you are wrong. the capital 'c' catholic word refers to teh r.c.c. institution whereas the small 'c' catholic means universal church.
i believe that the nicene creed is taken from 1 cor. at least paul covered it in one of his epistles, i am just going by memory here.
Nomad
Post Tenebras Lux
Here is a little background information on the Nicene Creed for those who are interested in further study.
THE CREEDS OF CHRISTENDOM,
WITH
A HISTORY AND CRITICAL NOTES.
BY
PHILIP SCHAFF, D.D., LL.D.,
PROFESSOR OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE IN THE UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, N. Y.
§8. The Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed , or Symbolum Nicæno-Constantinopolitanum , is the Eastern form of the primitive Creed, but with the distinct impress of the Nicene age, and more definite and explicit than the Apostles' Creed in the statement of the divinity of Christ and the Holy Ghost. The terms 'coessential' or 'coequal' (homoousios tô patri),'begotten before all worlds' (pro pantôn tôn aiônôn),'very God of very God' (theos alçthinos ek theou alçthinou),'begotten, not made' (gennçtheis, ou poiçtheis),are so many trophies of orthodoxy in its mighty struggle with the Arian heresy, which agitated the Church for more than half a century. The Nicene Creed is the first which obtained universal authority. It rests on older forms used in different churches of the East, and has undergone again some changes. [See Note #47]
The Eastern creeds arose likewise out of the baptismal formula, and were intended for the baptismal service as a confession of the faith of the catechumen in the Triune God. [See Note #48]
We must distinguish two independent or parallel creed formations, an Eastern and a Western; the one resulted in the Nicene Creed as completed by the Synod of Constantinople, the other in the Apostles' Creed in its Roman form. The Eastern creeds were more metaphysical, polemical, flexible, and adapting themselves to the exigencies of the Church in the maintenance of her faith and conflict with heretics; the Western were more simple, practical, and stationary. The former were controlled by synods, and received their final shape and sanction from two œcumenical Councils; the latter were left to the custody of the several churches, each feeling at liberty to make additions or alterations within certain limits, until the Roman form superseded all others, and was quietly, and without formal synodical action, adopted by Western Christendom.
In the Nicene Creed we must distinguish three forms—the original Nicene, the enlarged Constantinopolitan, and the still later Latin.
1. The original Nicene Creed dates from the first œcumenical Council, which was held at Nicæa, A.D. 325, for the settlement of the Arian controversy, and consisted of 318 bishops, all of them from the East (except Hosius of Spain). This Creed abruptly closes with the words 'and in the Holy Ghost,' but adds an anathema against the Arians. This was the authorized form down to the Council of Chalcedon.
2. The Nicæno-Constantinopolitan Creed, besides some minor changes in the first two articles, [See Note #49] adds all the clauses after 'Holy Ghost,' but omits the anathema. It gives the text as now received in the Eastern Church. It is usually traced to the second œcumenical Council, which was convened by Theodosius in Constantinople, A.D. 381, against the Macedonians or Pneumatomachians (so called for denying the deity of the Holy Spirit), and consisted of 150 bishops, all from the East. There is no authentic evidence of an œcumenical recognition of this enlarged Creed till the Council at Chalcedon, 451, where it was read by Aëtius (a deacon of Constantinople) as the 'Creed of the 150 fathers,' and accepted as orthodox, together with the old Nicene Creed, or the 'Creed of the 318 fathers.' But the additional clauses existed in 374, seven years before the Constantinopolitan Council, in the two creeds of Epiphanius, a native of Palestine, and most of them as early as 350, in the creed of Cyril of Jerusalem. [See Note #50]
The Nicene Creed comes nearest to that of Eusebius of Cæsarea, which likewise abruptly closes with pneuma hagion; the Constantinopolitan Creed resembles the creeds of Cyril and Epiphanius, which close with 'the resurrection' and 'life everlasting.' We may therefore trace both forms to Palestine, except the Nicene homoousion.
3. The Latin or Western form differs from the Greek by the little word Filioque, which, next to the authority of the Pope, is the chief source of the greatest schism in Christendom. The Greek Church, adhering to the original text, and emphasizing the monarchia of the Father as the only root and cause of the Deity, teaches the single procession (ekporeusis)of the Spirit from the Father alone, which is supposed to be an eternal inner-trinitarian process (like the eternal generation of the Son), and not to be confounded with the temporal mission \cf1 (pempsis)of the Holy Spirit by the Father and the Son. The Latin Church, in the interest of the co-equality of the Son with the Father, and taking the procession (processio ) in a wider sense, taught since Augustine the double procession of the Spirit from the Father and the Son, and, without consulting the East, put it into the Creed.
The first clear trace of the Filioque in the Nicene Creed we find at the third Council of Toledo in Spain, A.D. 589, to seal the triumph of orthodoxy over Arianism. During the eighth century it obtained currency in England and in France, but not without opposition. Pope Leo III., when asked by messengers of a council held during the reign of Charlemagne at Aix la Chapelle, A.D. 809, to sanction the Filioque, decided in favor of the double procession, but against any change in the Creed. Nevertheless, the clause gained also in Italy from the time of Pope Nicholas 1. (858), and was gradually adopted in the entire Latin Church. From this it passed into the Protestant Churches. [See Note #51]
Another addition in the Latin form, 'Deus de Deo ,' in article II., created no difficulty, as it was in the original Nicene Creed, but it is useless on account of the following 'Deus verus de Deo vero ,' and hence was omitted in the Constantinopolitan edition.
The Nicene Creed (without these Western additions) is more highly honored in the Greek Church than in any other, and occupies the same position there as the Apostles' Creed in the Latin and Protestant Churches. It is incorporated and expounded in all the orthodox Greek and Russian Catechisms. It is also (with the Filioque ) in liturgical use in the Roman (since about the sixth century), and in the Anglican and Lutheran Churches. [See Note #52] It was adopted by the Council of Trent as the fundamental Symbol, and embodied in the Profession of the Tridentine Faith by Pius IV. It is therefore more strictly an œcumenical Creed than the Apostles' and the Athanasian, which have never been fully naturalized in the Oriental Churches.
. . 'The faith of the Trinity lies,
Shrined for ever and ever, in those grand old words and wise;
A gem in a beautiful setting; still, at matin-time,
The service of Holy Communion rings the ancient chime;
Wherever in marvelous minster, or village churches small,
Men to the Man that is God out of their misery call,
Swelled by the rapture of choirs, or borne on the poor man's word,
Still the glorious Nicene confession unaltered is heard;
Most like the song that the angels are singing around the throne,
With their "Holy! holy! holy!" to the great Three in One.' [See Note #53]
The relation of the Nicene Creed to the Apostles' Creed may be seen from the following table:
The Apostles' Creed; Received Text. Nicene Creed, as Enlarged A.D. 381.
(The clauses in brackets are the later additions.) (The words in brackets are Western changes.)
1. I believe in God the Father Almighty, 1. We believe [See Note #54] in one God the Father Almighty,
[Maker of heaven and earth]. Maker of heaven and earth,
And of all things visible and invisible.
2. And in Jesus Christ , his only Son, our Lord; 2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ ,
the only-begotten Son of God,
Begotten of the Father before all worlds;
[God of God],
Light of Light.
Very God of very God,
Begotten, not made,
Being of one substance with the Father;
By whom all things were made;
3. Who was [conceived] by the Holy Ghost, 3. Who, for us men, and for our salvation,
Born of the Virgin Mary; came down from heaven,
And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of
the Virgin Mary,
And was made man
4. [Suffered] under Pontius Pilate, was crucified [dead], and buried; 4. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
And suffered and was buried;
[He descended into Hades]; * * * * *
5. The third day he rose again from the dead; 5. And the third day he rose again,
According to the Scriptures;
6. He ascended into heaven, 6. And ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of [God] the Father [Almighty]; And sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. 7. And he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;
Whose kingdom shall have no end.
8. And [I believe] in the Holy Ghost ; 8. And [I believe] in the Holy Ghost ,
The Lord, and Giver of life;
Who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified;
Who spake by the Prophets.
9. The holy [catholic] Church; 9. And [I believe] in [See Note #55] one holy catholic and apostolic Church;
[The communion of saints]; * * * * *
10. The forgiveness of sins; 10. We acknowledge [See Note #56] one baptism for the remission of sins;
11. The resurrection of the flesh [body]; 11. And we look for the resurrection of the dead;
12. [And the life everlasting]. 12. And the life of the world to come.
We give also, in parallel columns, the original and the enlarged formulas of the Nicene Creed, italicizing the later additions, and inclosing in brackets the passages which are omitted in the received text:
The Nicene Creed of 325. [See Note #57] Constantinopolitan Creed of 381. [See Note #58]
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ , the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousion)with the Father; by whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth]; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in one Lord Jesus Christ , the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father ; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost . And in the Holy Ghost , the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets. In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]
Note #47
Compare the symbols of the church of Jerusalem, the church of Alexandria, and the creed of Cæsarea, which Eusebius read at the Council of Nicæa, in Usher, l.c. pp. 7, 8; more fully in Vol. II. pp. 11 sqq., and in Hahn, Bibliothek der Symbole, pp. 40 sqq., 91 sqq.
Note #48
Eusebius, in his Epistle to the people of Cæsarea, says of the creed which he had proposed to the Council of Nicæa for adoption, that he had learned it as a catechumen, professed it at his baptism, taught it in turn as presbyter and bishop, and that it was derived from our Lord's baptismal formula. It resembles the old Nicene Creed very closely; see Vol. II. p. 29. The shorter creed of Jerusalem used at baptism, as given by Cyril, Catech. 19. 9, is simply the baptismal formula put interrogatively; see Hahn, pp. 51 sqq.
Note #49
The most remarkable change in the first article is the omission of the words poutestin ek tçs ousias tou Patros, theon ek theouon which great stress was laid by the Athanasian party against the Arians, who maintained that the Son was not of the essence, but of the will of the Father.
Note #50
See Vol. II. pp. 31–38, and the Comparative Table, p. 40; Lumby, p. 68; and Hort, pp. 72–150. Dr. Hort tries to prove that the 'Constantinopolitan' or Epiphanian Creed is not a revision of the Nicene Creed at all, but of the Creed of Jerusalem, and that it dates probably from Cyril, about 362–364, when he adopted the Nicene homoousia, and may have been read by him at the Council of Constantinople in vindication of his orthodoxy. Ffoulkes (in Smith's Dict. of Christ. Antiq. Vol. 1. p. 438) conjectures that it was framed at Antioch about 372, and adopted at the supplemental Council of Constantinople, 382.
Note #51
Comp. Vol. II., at the close.
Note #52
In the Reformed Churches, except the Episcopal, the Nicene Creed is little used. Calvin, who had a very high opinion of the Apostles' Creed, depreciates the Nicene Creed, as a 'carmen cantillando magis aptum, quam confessionis formula ' (De Reform. Ecc. ).
Note #53
From 'A Legend of the Council of Nice,' by Cecil Frances Alexander, in 'The Contemporary Review ' for February, 1867, pp. 176–179.
Note #54
The Greek reads the plural (pisteuomen),but the Latin and English versions have substituted for it the singular (credo, I believe), in accordance with the Apostles' Creed and the more subjective character of the Western churches.
Note #55
The Greek reads eis mian . . . ekklēsian,but the Latin and English versions, in conformity with the Apostles' Creed, mostly omit in before ecclesiam ; see p. 15.
Note #56
Here and in art. 11 the singular is substituted in Western translations for homologoumenand prosdokômen.
Note #57
The Greek original is given, together with the similar Palestinian confession, by Eusebius in his Epistola ad Cæsareenses, which is preserved by Athanasius at the close of his Epistola de decretis Synodi Nicænæ (Opera, ed. Montfaucon, 1. 239); also, with some variations, in the Acts of the Council of Chalcedon (Act. II. in Mansi, Tom. VII.); in Theoderet, H. E. I. 12; Socrates, H. E. 1. 8; Gelasius, H. Conc. Nic. 1. II. 100. 35. See the literature and variations in Walch, l.c. pp. 75 and 87 sqq.; also in Hahn, l.c. pp. 105 sqq.
Note #58
The Greek text in the acts of the second œcumenical Council (Mansi, Tom. III. p. 565; Hardouin, Vol. 1. p. 814), and also in the acts of the fourth œcumenical Council. See Vol. II p. 35; Hahn, l.c. p. 111; and my Church Hist. Vol. III. pp. 667 sqq.
THE CREEDS OF CHRISTENDOM,
WITH
A HISTORY AND CRITICAL NOTES.
BY
PHILIP SCHAFF, D.D., LL.D.,
PROFESSOR OF BIBLICAL LITERATURE IN THE UNION THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, N. Y.
§8. The Nicene Creed.
The Nicene Creed , or Symbolum Nicæno-Constantinopolitanum , is the Eastern form of the primitive Creed, but with the distinct impress of the Nicene age, and more definite and explicit than the Apostles' Creed in the statement of the divinity of Christ and the Holy Ghost. The terms 'coessential' or 'coequal' (homoousios tô patri),'begotten before all worlds' (pro pantôn tôn aiônôn),'very God of very God' (theos alçthinos ek theou alçthinou),'begotten, not made' (gennçtheis, ou poiçtheis),are so many trophies of orthodoxy in its mighty struggle with the Arian heresy, which agitated the Church for more than half a century. The Nicene Creed is the first which obtained universal authority. It rests on older forms used in different churches of the East, and has undergone again some changes. [See Note #47]
The Eastern creeds arose likewise out of the baptismal formula, and were intended for the baptismal service as a confession of the faith of the catechumen in the Triune God. [See Note #48]
We must distinguish two independent or parallel creed formations, an Eastern and a Western; the one resulted in the Nicene Creed as completed by the Synod of Constantinople, the other in the Apostles' Creed in its Roman form. The Eastern creeds were more metaphysical, polemical, flexible, and adapting themselves to the exigencies of the Church in the maintenance of her faith and conflict with heretics; the Western were more simple, practical, and stationary. The former were controlled by synods, and received their final shape and sanction from two œcumenical Councils; the latter were left to the custody of the several churches, each feeling at liberty to make additions or alterations within certain limits, until the Roman form superseded all others, and was quietly, and without formal synodical action, adopted by Western Christendom.
In the Nicene Creed we must distinguish three forms—the original Nicene, the enlarged Constantinopolitan, and the still later Latin.
1. The original Nicene Creed dates from the first œcumenical Council, which was held at Nicæa, A.D. 325, for the settlement of the Arian controversy, and consisted of 318 bishops, all of them from the East (except Hosius of Spain). This Creed abruptly closes with the words 'and in the Holy Ghost,' but adds an anathema against the Arians. This was the authorized form down to the Council of Chalcedon.
2. The Nicæno-Constantinopolitan Creed, besides some minor changes in the first two articles, [See Note #49] adds all the clauses after 'Holy Ghost,' but omits the anathema. It gives the text as now received in the Eastern Church. It is usually traced to the second œcumenical Council, which was convened by Theodosius in Constantinople, A.D. 381, against the Macedonians or Pneumatomachians (so called for denying the deity of the Holy Spirit), and consisted of 150 bishops, all from the East. There is no authentic evidence of an œcumenical recognition of this enlarged Creed till the Council at Chalcedon, 451, where it was read by Aëtius (a deacon of Constantinople) as the 'Creed of the 150 fathers,' and accepted as orthodox, together with the old Nicene Creed, or the 'Creed of the 318 fathers.' But the additional clauses existed in 374, seven years before the Constantinopolitan Council, in the two creeds of Epiphanius, a native of Palestine, and most of them as early as 350, in the creed of Cyril of Jerusalem. [See Note #50]
The Nicene Creed comes nearest to that of Eusebius of Cæsarea, which likewise abruptly closes with pneuma hagion; the Constantinopolitan Creed resembles the creeds of Cyril and Epiphanius, which close with 'the resurrection' and 'life everlasting.' We may therefore trace both forms to Palestine, except the Nicene homoousion.
3. The Latin or Western form differs from the Greek by the little word Filioque, which, next to the authority of the Pope, is the chief source of the greatest schism in Christendom. The Greek Church, adhering to the original text, and emphasizing the monarchia of the Father as the only root and cause of the Deity, teaches the single procession (ekporeusis)of the Spirit from the Father alone, which is supposed to be an eternal inner-trinitarian process (like the eternal generation of the Son), and not to be confounded with the temporal mission \cf1 (pempsis)of the Holy Spirit by the Father and the Son. The Latin Church, in the interest of the co-equality of the Son with the Father, and taking the procession (processio ) in a wider sense, taught since Augustine the double procession of the Spirit from the Father and the Son, and, without consulting the East, put it into the Creed.
The first clear trace of the Filioque in the Nicene Creed we find at the third Council of Toledo in Spain, A.D. 589, to seal the triumph of orthodoxy over Arianism. During the eighth century it obtained currency in England and in France, but not without opposition. Pope Leo III., when asked by messengers of a council held during the reign of Charlemagne at Aix la Chapelle, A.D. 809, to sanction the Filioque, decided in favor of the double procession, but against any change in the Creed. Nevertheless, the clause gained also in Italy from the time of Pope Nicholas 1. (858), and was gradually adopted in the entire Latin Church. From this it passed into the Protestant Churches. [See Note #51]
Another addition in the Latin form, 'Deus de Deo ,' in article II., created no difficulty, as it was in the original Nicene Creed, but it is useless on account of the following 'Deus verus de Deo vero ,' and hence was omitted in the Constantinopolitan edition.
The Nicene Creed (without these Western additions) is more highly honored in the Greek Church than in any other, and occupies the same position there as the Apostles' Creed in the Latin and Protestant Churches. It is incorporated and expounded in all the orthodox Greek and Russian Catechisms. It is also (with the Filioque ) in liturgical use in the Roman (since about the sixth century), and in the Anglican and Lutheran Churches. [See Note #52] It was adopted by the Council of Trent as the fundamental Symbol, and embodied in the Profession of the Tridentine Faith by Pius IV. It is therefore more strictly an œcumenical Creed than the Apostles' and the Athanasian, which have never been fully naturalized in the Oriental Churches.
. . 'The faith of the Trinity lies,
Shrined for ever and ever, in those grand old words and wise;
A gem in a beautiful setting; still, at matin-time,
The service of Holy Communion rings the ancient chime;
Wherever in marvelous minster, or village churches small,
Men to the Man that is God out of their misery call,
Swelled by the rapture of choirs, or borne on the poor man's word,
Still the glorious Nicene confession unaltered is heard;
Most like the song that the angels are singing around the throne,
With their "Holy! holy! holy!" to the great Three in One.' [See Note #53]
The relation of the Nicene Creed to the Apostles' Creed may be seen from the following table:
The Apostles' Creed; Received Text. Nicene Creed, as Enlarged A.D. 381.
(The clauses in brackets are the later additions.) (The words in brackets are Western changes.)
1. I believe in God the Father Almighty, 1. We believe [See Note #54] in one God the Father Almighty,
[Maker of heaven and earth]. Maker of heaven and earth,
And of all things visible and invisible.
2. And in Jesus Christ , his only Son, our Lord; 2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ ,
the only-begotten Son of God,
Begotten of the Father before all worlds;
[God of God],
Light of Light.
Very God of very God,
Begotten, not made,
Being of one substance with the Father;
By whom all things were made;
3. Who was [conceived] by the Holy Ghost, 3. Who, for us men, and for our salvation,
Born of the Virgin Mary; came down from heaven,
And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of
the Virgin Mary,
And was made man
4. [Suffered] under Pontius Pilate, was crucified [dead], and buried; 4. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
And suffered and was buried;
[He descended into Hades]; * * * * *
5. The third day he rose again from the dead; 5. And the third day he rose again,
According to the Scriptures;
6. He ascended into heaven, 6. And ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of [God] the Father [Almighty]; And sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. 7. And he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead;
Whose kingdom shall have no end.
8. And [I believe] in the Holy Ghost ; 8. And [I believe] in the Holy Ghost ,
The Lord, and Giver of life;
Who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified;
Who spake by the Prophets.
9. The holy [catholic] Church; 9. And [I believe] in [See Note #55] one holy catholic and apostolic Church;
[The communion of saints]; * * * * *
10. The forgiveness of sins; 10. We acknowledge [See Note #56] one baptism for the remission of sins;
11. The resurrection of the flesh [body]; 11. And we look for the resurrection of the dead;
12. [And the life everlasting]. 12. And the life of the world to come.
We give also, in parallel columns, the original and the enlarged formulas of the Nicene Creed, italicizing the later additions, and inclosing in brackets the passages which are omitted in the received text:
The Nicene Creed of 325. [See Note #57] Constantinopolitan Creed of 381. [See Note #58]
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ , the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousion)with the Father; by whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth]; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in one Lord Jesus Christ , the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man; he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father ; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost . And in the Holy Ghost , the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the prophets. In one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
[But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable'—they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]
Note #47
Compare the symbols of the church of Jerusalem, the church of Alexandria, and the creed of Cæsarea, which Eusebius read at the Council of Nicæa, in Usher, l.c. pp. 7, 8; more fully in Vol. II. pp. 11 sqq., and in Hahn, Bibliothek der Symbole, pp. 40 sqq., 91 sqq.
Note #48
Eusebius, in his Epistle to the people of Cæsarea, says of the creed which he had proposed to the Council of Nicæa for adoption, that he had learned it as a catechumen, professed it at his baptism, taught it in turn as presbyter and bishop, and that it was derived from our Lord's baptismal formula. It resembles the old Nicene Creed very closely; see Vol. II. p. 29. The shorter creed of Jerusalem used at baptism, as given by Cyril, Catech. 19. 9, is simply the baptismal formula put interrogatively; see Hahn, pp. 51 sqq.
Note #49
The most remarkable change in the first article is the omission of the words poutestin ek tçs ousias tou Patros, theon ek theouon which great stress was laid by the Athanasian party against the Arians, who maintained that the Son was not of the essence, but of the will of the Father.
Note #50
See Vol. II. pp. 31–38, and the Comparative Table, p. 40; Lumby, p. 68; and Hort, pp. 72–150. Dr. Hort tries to prove that the 'Constantinopolitan' or Epiphanian Creed is not a revision of the Nicene Creed at all, but of the Creed of Jerusalem, and that it dates probably from Cyril, about 362–364, when he adopted the Nicene homoousia, and may have been read by him at the Council of Constantinople in vindication of his orthodoxy. Ffoulkes (in Smith's Dict. of Christ. Antiq. Vol. 1. p. 438) conjectures that it was framed at Antioch about 372, and adopted at the supplemental Council of Constantinople, 382.
Note #51
Comp. Vol. II., at the close.
Note #52
In the Reformed Churches, except the Episcopal, the Nicene Creed is little used. Calvin, who had a very high opinion of the Apostles' Creed, depreciates the Nicene Creed, as a 'carmen cantillando magis aptum, quam confessionis formula ' (De Reform. Ecc. ).
Note #53
From 'A Legend of the Council of Nice,' by Cecil Frances Alexander, in 'The Contemporary Review ' for February, 1867, pp. 176–179.
Note #54
The Greek reads the plural (pisteuomen),but the Latin and English versions have substituted for it the singular (credo, I believe), in accordance with the Apostles' Creed and the more subjective character of the Western churches.
Note #55
The Greek reads eis mian . . . ekklēsian,but the Latin and English versions, in conformity with the Apostles' Creed, mostly omit in before ecclesiam ; see p. 15.
Note #56
Here and in art. 11 the singular is substituted in Western translations for homologoumenand prosdokômen.
Note #57
The Greek original is given, together with the similar Palestinian confession, by Eusebius in his Epistola ad Cæsareenses, which is preserved by Athanasius at the close of his Epistola de decretis Synodi Nicænæ (Opera, ed. Montfaucon, 1. 239); also, with some variations, in the Acts of the Council of Chalcedon (Act. II. in Mansi, Tom. VII.); in Theoderet, H. E. I. 12; Socrates, H. E. 1. 8; Gelasius, H. Conc. Nic. 1. II. 100. 35. See the literature and variations in Walch, l.c. pp. 75 and 87 sqq.; also in Hahn, l.c. pp. 105 sqq.
Note #58
The Greek text in the acts of the second œcumenical Council (Mansi, Tom. III. p. 565; Hardouin, Vol. 1. p. 814), and also in the acts of the fourth œcumenical Council. See Vol. II p. 35; Hahn, l.c. p. 111; and my Church Hist. Vol. III. pp. 667 sqq.
I thought yous aid you were an Anglican!
I'm an Anglo-Catholic so I stress catholicity very much, though it isn't Roman. Jake have you ever heard of the Oxford Movement and Branch Theory. Of course we were using the three anciwent creeds long before 19th century.
The creed (Credo) is a statemtn of faith, not some addition to scripture. Back in teh early church there were all manner of hereies; Ariens, Palagians, Gnostics etc and the Church needed a statement for all Christians to unify under. To put it another way; the church needed to get it straight. Sicne then it has become a part of liturgical practice.
The Nicene Creed is used also by Methodists, Presbytarians and Lutherans isn't it? Perhaps not ascommonly as they used to though.
I'm also aware that where it say's "one holy and apostallic church," some say "one holy Christian church." Because some people don't like having to say Catholic, b=which is a bit ignorant of them really because they obviously don't know what it means.
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