The Sacrifice of Jesus.....revisited

[bbyrd009]

What has this got to do with anything?

well, once you figure out the elements, everything, i guess

 

[theefaith]

God's character doesn't change because His laws do not change. Both are inherently tied together because the integrity of God's character flows from Him being able to perfectly keep His own laws. People misunderstand Heb. 7:12 as saying the law changed when the reality is that Paul was saying the change occurred in how the law is supposed to be administered.

A great example of this change is the case of the Corinthian Christian who was having a sexual relationship with his stepmother. Under the Sinai Covenant, this man would've been eligible for the death penalty(Lev. 20:11). Instead, he was kicked out of the Church until he repented(1 Cor. 5:5) because the New Covenant is about mercy instead of outright condemnation(2 Cor. 3:7-8, 4:1).

In 1 Cor. 5:13, Paul explained the purpose behind this by quoting Deuteronomy where it says God wanted His people to be kept safe from immorality. This circles back around to why Paul said the administration is what has changed. The underlying principles behind God enforcing these laws is still love and genuine concern for our well being, and they still guarantee the best results for everybody if they're applied correctly.

truth is also from God and is immutable
The church also founded by God by Christ on Peter is ir-reformable!
Matt 16:18-19 gate shall NOT prevail

 

[theefaith]

Jesus didn't get sprinkled/
3 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and a]">[a]He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

so immersion is acceptable but it does not say that’s the only way
Ez 36:25-27

 

[farouk]

It is not a mystery entwined like a ball of thread. It is a simple statement that needs to be obeyed!

Many have said similar to you and have attempted to unravel something that needs no unravelling. Wnhy should your unraveleed conclusion be more right than theirs?

Do you really think that after over three thousand years since this was initially disclosed, no man could speak the truth to this?

What is so mysterious? "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission."

We know from this writer also that all the OT types were shadows of the real to come. We know that the Passover Lamb was symbolic of Gods Lamb!
JOhn the Baptist declared so!

we also know Jesus blood was shed for the removing of our sins!

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:12 - Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 13:20 - Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

olossians 1:14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 10:19-22 - Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

It is irrelavent if we do not know why. It is what it is and is the truth we live and rejoice in, whether we can understand it with our finite minds or not!

@Ronald Nolette These are indeed vital truths which are revealed in Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"reliable scholars" this term, is like the term : "smells pretty".
Its a meaningless term.
Listen, Im seminary trained and im trained in manuscript evidence.
I can talk about "extant greek texts" and the "western manuscripts".
I can turn on my exegesis vocabulary, and play that "scholar" role for you.
I can call myself a "scholar", but, i dont need it.
Im not in the ministry to elevate myself with TITLES.......as i have those.
They are MEANINGLESS., except they get you invited to preach, and sometimes they get you a job in a school.....and they look good on the back cover of a book.
Know what i mean?
So, avoid scholars, and stick with a bible believer, who is a Pauline Theologist, and you are way ahead of "scholarship", nonsense, in general.


Here is how you know its Paul, as the author of "hebrews".
IF you read Chapters 8-10, you find the "author" only talking about the Cross, the Blood of Jesus, and the end of the Law.
No other apostle talks like this.......only Paul. as that is all he talks about in his Epistles.
Also notice something else......in Acts 28....if you read the last 10 verses... then you'll note that this is a MIRROR of Hebrews 10:26.

Same Apostle, Same Christ rejecting HEBREWS in both Hebrews 10 and Acts 28.
Its the same APOSTLE.

IOW stick with you for you are ahead of the game.

One passage does not a conclusion make. Yes, Paul spoke more of the cross and the blood. But Hebrews is so dissimilar to Pauls other writings, except maybe for Galatians and parts of Romans. Paul spent his time planting the gospel with the gentiles. I do not see Paul dictrating a huge letter to Jews in Jerusalem.

Especially given that Paul was most likely dead by the time Hebrews was written. Also given that the last two years He was a prisoner in Rome and wrote the prison epistles were were the focus to gentile churches. Though Paul went to synagogues in every town he visited where there was a synagogue, you should know his focus was bringing the gospel to the gentiles. I am more inclined to give crfedit to Barnabbas.

Paul always introduced his letters with his name- why would he decline in this one letter?

Barnabbas was also very familiar with Timothy. So sorry.

And what studies did you accomplish to call yourself a Pauline theologist? I am a bible college graduate, with studies in the languages and manuscript evidence as well. I would not call myself a Pauline theologist, but atheologian who preaches Pauls letters as they comrise the constitution of the church!

To say Acts 28 and Heb. 10:26 is a huge huge stretch! It mirrors Jesus words and OT words but not Heb. 10:26

 

[farouk]

IOW stick with you for you are ahead of the game.

One passage does not a conclusion make. Yes, Paul spoke more of the cross and the blood. But Hebrews is so dissimilar to Pauls other writings, except maybe for Galatians and parts of Romans. Paul spent his time planting the gospel with the gentiles. I do not see Paul dictrating a huge letter to Jews in Jerusalem.

Especially given that Paul was most likely dead by the time Hebrews was written. Also given that the last two years He was a prisoner in Rome and wrote the prison epistles were were the focus to gentile churches. Though Paul went to synagogues in every town he visited where there was a synagogue, you should know his focus was bringing the gospel to the gentiles. I am more inclined to give crfedit to Barnabbas.

Paul always introduced his letters with his name- why would he decline in this one letter?

Barnabbas was also very familiar with Timothy. So sorry.

And what studies did you accomplish to call yourself a Pauline theologist? I am a bible college graduate, with studies in the languages and manuscript evidence as well. I would not call myself a Pauline theologist, but atheologian who preaches Pauls letters as they comrise the constitution of the church!

To say Acts 28 and Heb. 10:26 is a huge huge stretch! It mirrors Jesus words and OT words but not Heb. 10:26

@Ronald Nolette In the end the actual text of Hebrews does not say it was Paul who wrote the Epistle, so we can't be dogmatic that he did, even though tradition suggests he did.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette In the end the actual text of Hebrews does not say it was Paul who wrote the Epistle, so we can't be dogmatic that he did, even though tradition suggests he did.

The fact that the majority of believing historians put Pauls death no later than 64-65 AD and Hebrews was written in 67 AD puts a real damper on it being Paul!

 

[Behold]

truth is also from God and is immutable
The church also founded by God by Christ on Peter is ir-reformable!
Matt 16:18-19 gate shall NOT prevail

The "cult of the virgin" was founded on a theology that is based on Mary, that is originally based on the goddess "Diana'.
A little bit of "christianity" has been sprinkled on top of this pagan religion, to fool the easily deceived.
You can read about this "cult of the virgin", if you do some deeper research on the writings of the "early church fathers" who titled their ""cult of the virgin", that you now refer to as the REBRANDED= "catholic church".
But originally, in Ephesus, in about 5AD, the correct name was .."the cult of the virgin".

 

[theefaith]

The "cult of the virgin" was founded on a theology that is based on Mary, that is originally based on the goddess "Diana'.
A little bit of "christianity" has been sprinkled on top of this pagan religion, to fool the easily deceived.
You can read about this "cult of the virgin", if you do some deeper research on the writings of the "early church fathers" who titled their ""cult of the virgin", that you now refer to as the REBRANDED= "catholic church".
But originally, in Ephesus, in about 5AD, the correct name was .."the cult of the virgin".

you say the ECF promoted idolatry?

proof?

 

[Behold]

you say the ECF promoted idolatry?
proof?

Ive not used the word "idolatry".

I said that the "cult of the virgin" is the title of this religious denomination, that was created about 5ad, in Ephesus.
Its modeled, patterned, on ....."Diana" worship, but they exchanged Mary for the Goddess Diana.
If you study, ...... the pagan cults, and including "Diana" worship, that was happening in Ephesus, that Paul talked about, you will find that the Goddess Diana, is referred to as the "Queen of Heaven", and is a "Virgin" Goddess.
Yes, really.

Now let me show you the reality, as i have studied what you have not learned yet.
-This.,
"In the early part of the 3rd century, Hippolytus of Rome recorded the first liturgical reference to the Virgin Mary, as part of the ordination rite of a Bishop..
The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the >cult of the Virgin<= as Mother of God;
Then....
Pope Gregory’s reading of the role of Mary would be repeated by monks and priests. They would weave in to the Gospels his readings as if they were Gospel themselves soon forgetting that it was myth. The words of Gregory soon became a reality. The birth of the cult of the Virgin Mary had begun. She became a pure and perfect form of womanhood, an expectation of perfection within the female form."

 

[theefaith]

Ive not used the word "idolatry".

I said that the "cult of the virgin" is the title of this religious denomination, that was created about 5ad, in Ephesus.
Its modeled, patterned, on ....."Diana" worship, but they exchanged Mary for the Goddess Diana.
If you study, ...... the pagan cults, and including "Diana" worship, that was happening in Ephesus, that Paul talked about, you will find that the Goddess Diana, is referred to as the "Queen of Heaven", and is a "Virgin" Goddess.
Yes, really.

So cos there were false Christ’s and false messiah’s and false prophets does not disprove the true ones and more that false Mary’s and false queens of heaven disprove the true Mary, ever virgin mother of God, our mother and queen

Now let me show you the reality, as i have studied what you have not learned yet.
-This.,
"In the early part of the 3rd century, Hippolytus of Rome recorded the first liturgical reference to the Virgin Mary, as part of the ordination rite of a Bishop..
The Council of Ephesus in 431 sanctioned the >cult of the Virgin<= as Mother of God;
Then....
Pope Gregory’s reading of the role of Mary would be repeated by monks and priests. They would weave in to the Gospels his readings as if they were Gospel themselves soon forgetting that it was myth. The words of Gregory soon became a reality. The birth of the cult of the Virgin Mary had begun. She became a pure and perfect form of womanhood, an expectation of perfection within the female form."

councils are of the apostolic tradition and part of the divine revelation of Jesus Christ Jude 1:3

mary was is mother of God lk 1:43

Mary is the mother of God!

Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Lk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Glory to God!

 

[Behold]

councils are of the apostolic tradition

The "councils" : is a man made religion.
Reject it.

 

[EloyCraft]

The "councils" : is a man made religion.
Reject it.

How do you recognize a divine religion?

 

[EloyCraft]

1...Was it to balance some sort of scales justice/injustice...cosmic or otherwise?

Sin places an obstacle between man and God.
Sin caused death which changed the human body.
It's members didn't serve the will any longer but the law of death. This is the law that other animals flesh obeys too because their bodies die.
Jesus restores the human body because He has no sin. His members do not need to survive so serve His will only. This is how God made us in the beginning.

3...Is 'sacrifice' the right word ...and if so, why?

The perfect word because Jesus would not have died if we hadn't killed Him. He really chose to die for us. Fallen man is going to die anyway so he doesn't have a life to give by dying because he cannot choose to die.

4...Did Jesus have anything to say about sacrifice....if so, what?

He said He came to die.

 

[EloyCraft]

5...How is or what has The Kingdom of God to do or connected with sacrifice??

Death is the doorway to resurrection. Because death has no hold on Jesus it was not an obstacle between Him and His Father.

 

[theefaith]

How do you recognize a divine religion?

that which is revealed by God and taught by the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors


Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)