The Soul is the Sinner in the Flesh

[Blue Dragonfly's]

So to be clear there, are you saying the soul leads us to sin?

Those who like to speak of a sin spirit or nature, place it in the body with the purpose of excusing their sinning with the flesh.

There is only one sin spirit and nature in the flesh: the sinning soul wrapped in mortal flesh.

It's the soul that does the sinning with the flesh, not the body sinning with the soul.

It is the soul that lusts for the flesh or the spirit, and it is the soul that has life walking after the Spirit, or death after the flesh.

If lust for the flesh and the sins of this life remains in the flesh, it is the unredeemed sinful soul.

There is no sin spirit or nature 'independent' of the soul, because there is no such spirit or nature created by Christ.

The only nature of the flesh is mortality.

If Christ created a spirit or nature called sin, then He would indeed be the tempter to sin. James rebukes that accusation against God, which is only made because of the lie that such a spirit or nature of sin was ever created, and Christ is the only Creator of all things spiritual and natural.

 

[BeyondET]

Those who like to speak of a sin spirit or nature, place it in the body with the purpose of excusing their sinning with the flesh.

There is only one sin spirit and nature in the flesh: the sinning soul wrapped in mortal flesh.

It's the soul that does the sinning with the flesh, not the body sinning with the soul.

It is the soul that lusts for the flesh or the spirit, and it is the soul that has life walking after the Spirit, or death after the flesh.

If lust for the flesh and the sins of this life remains in the flesh, it is the unredeemed sinful soul.

There is no sin spirit or nature 'independent' of the soul, because there is no such spirit or nature created by Christ.

The only nature of the flesh is mortality.

If Christ created a spirit or nature called sin, then He would indeed be the tempter to sin. James rebukes that accusation against God, which is only made because of the lie that such a spirit or nature of sin was ever created, and Christ is the only Creator of all things spiritual and natural.

How many threads on the same topic are you going to make. It's definitely eating you for lunch, that's what the adversary wants you to be preoccupied on nonsense.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Creature, not soul.

Translation is also doctrinally contextual. All naturally created flesh on earth is a living creature with life in it, and man is the only living soul in that flesh.

Man is a living creature on earth bodily. No living creature on earth is a living soul, made in the image of God.

Our spiritual being is what separates us and the angels from all other living creatures, and our mortal body is what makes us made a little lower than the angels.

The effort to make the soul of man to be his body, is akin to natural man that rejects God and the things of the spirit, which separate God from nature, and man from all other natural living creatures on earth.

Research the original word Rob, the word that occurred there originally was Nephesh or soul in English sir. Here is the original word and it's meaning as well as how the translators of the KJV of the Bible translated it:
Xpn Nephesh (neh'-fesh); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 5315

1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
   1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
   2. living being
   3. living being (with life in the blood)
   4. the man himself, self, person or individual
   5. seat of the appetites
   6. seat of emotions and passions
   7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
   8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
   9. activity of the character
      1. dubious

KJV Word Usage and Count
soul 475
life 117
person 29
mind 15
heart 15
creature 9
body 8
himself 8
yourselves 6
dead 5
will 4
desire 4
man 3
themselves 3
any 3
appetite 2
miscellaneous 47

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

First created spiritual in lowest parts of the earth, then wrapped in flesh in the womb.

First the body of mortal flesh was made, and then the soul was made alive in the flesh by the Spirit of Christ.



Fist in responsibility for deeds done in the flesh, and then when the spirit departs the flesh: separated.


For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Yes, I am. Housed, held captive, awaiting the redemption of a resurrected body.

Your natural mind says different, but the day will come when you learn different. No sinner can blame their body for sinning with it.



The flesh is the earthen mortal home for the soul, and it is the soul that sinneth with the body, and the soul dies because of sinning, not the body.

For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Our flesh is mortal, we are not. Our flesh is our temporary house, not our home.

The life we live in Christ spiritually within our souls, is shown in our mortal flesh, not made by our mortal flesh.

This is my last correction for you. I no longer do endless debates.

You're contradicting Genesis 2:7 I'm not going to agree with contradicting Genesis 2:7 because you choose to contradict Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 is perfectly clear, it's clearly teaching us that God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body and then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So for anyone saying that the breath of life(spirit) separately, on it's own, without a flesh and blood human body is a living soul or living person is contradicting Genesis 2:7.
No other scripture is going to contradict Genesis 2:7. It's the way you are reasoning on the scriptures that I disagree with. You saying, "The flesh is the earthen mortal home for the soul," does not agree with Genesis 2:7. The flesh and blood human body is the living soul or living person. You're saying that God gave the flesh and blood human body a living soul but Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that. Whenever you throw away the flesh and blood human body in a discussion of the word soul , you will always be incorrect. It's the combination of God forming a flesh and blood human body from the dust of the ground then God blowing the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body is how that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So the soul is not something that is housed in the flesh of a earthen mortal home. What you call the, flesh of a earthen mortal home, is the living soul, or living person, not something inside what you call, the flesh of a earthen mortal home.

 

[robert derrick]

So to be clear there, are you saying the soul leads us to sin?

Yes. It is our soul that uses our body to sin in word or deed.

It is the soul that is temptation to sin, not the body. It is our heart that receives tempting thoughts to lust for the flesh and the world:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The soul is the one tempted by the devil, and is the one sinning with the flesh. It is not our bodies being tempted to sin with against our own souls.

In fact, the only one sinned against is our body, by our soul's use thereof:

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

People who think it is their souls being sinned against by their bodies, are blaming the wrong one: we are to blame for doing so in the spirit of our minds and in the flesh of our bodies:

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

It's not our bodies, which Christ made naturally mortal, that are the enemies of God, but our souls are in our minds and hearts, if we choose to sin against Him.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Yes. It is our soul that uses our body to sin in word or deed.

It is the soul that is temptation to sin, not the body. It is our heart that receives tempting thoughts to lust for the flesh and the world:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The soul is the one tempted by the devil, and is the one sinning with the flesh. It is not our bodies being tempted to sin with against our own souls.

In fact, the only one sinned against is our body, by our soul's use thereof:

Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

People who think it is their souls being sinned against by their bodies, are blaming the wrong one: we are to blame for doing so in the spirit of our minds and in the flesh of our bodies:

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

It's not our bodies, which Christ made naturally mortal, that are the enemies of God, but our souls are in our minds and hearts, if we choose to sin against Him.

Where does our soul come from?

 

[robert derrick]

So to be clear there, are you saying the soul leads us to sin?

Many Christians simply do not take the time to thoroughly study in Scripture exactly how to win our warfare and race of eternal life in the flesh, and so they do not know what nor how to do the fighting, and so speak naturally from a carnal mind about such things, Such as, the flesh is full of sin, and so the natural mortal body is the sinner to resist.

All good and evil is spiritual in nature, whether committed by angels or men, The bodies we do so with are merely the vessels, whether heavenly or earthen. The bodies don't do the sinning, but the angelic spirit or the soul of man: it is the person judged for sinning by God, not the bodies.

Both angels and men have hearts created by Christ with free will to choose to do good or evil, and the devil was the first one in heaven to lust from the heart against God, and sin against Him with a spiritual body, and Adam was the first man on earth to do the same, but in mortal flesh.

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

That is why we war not carnal, being with and against our flesh, but our warfare is spiritual with thoughts, intents, and imaginations of the heart to do good or evil, whether in spiritual or natural bodies.

With the Scriptural mind of Christ, we resist the devil and the spirit of this world, to cast down his tempting thoughts in our renewed minds, before they ever reach our pure hearts, In this way we overcome sinning in the spirit and in the flesh, even as Jesus did all the days of His life.

Jesus was still being tempted in His mind on the cross, to revile them that were reviling Him, but He still refused to receive such temptation and guarded His own heart unto death.

It is the soul that dies by sinning, not the flesh, which only dies, because it is naturally made that way by Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

Where does our soul come from?

Adam's was breathed into his prepared body of flesh on earth.

Now, all souls are created in the earth and wrapped in flesh in the womb:

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Natural man sees on the flesh and rejects God and the spiritual things, but naturally minded Christians see the soul and body as being one and the same.

My soul is not my body, and my body is not my soul: Man is a soul with a body, not a body with a soul.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Adam's was breathed into his prepared body of flesh on earth.

Now, all souls are created in the earth and wrapped in flesh in the womb:

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Natural man sees on the flesh and rejects God and the spiritual things, but naturally minded Christians see the soul and body as being one and the same.

My soul is not my body, and my body is not my soul: Man is a soul with a body, not a body with a soul.

When we die the body returns to the dust from which it sprang. That dust was created by God.

And the soul returns to God who gave it.

 

[robert derrick]

and then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man became a living soul, not that 'flesh and blood body' of man.

The main difference between you an me, is I read Scripture exactly as God wrote It, word for word, because He does so for a reason.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The flesh and blood human body is the living soul or living person.

So you say. Until you quote Scripture perfectly saying so, it's only what you say. Simply show a Scripture where God says man is his body, or his body is the man. Until then your sloppiness with Scripture helps you to replace 'man', with flesh and blood body.

You might try quoting Scripture, as I do, then give the simple sense of it, rather than just speaking from your own undisciplined mind on the things of God.

So for anyone saying that the breath of life(spirit) separately, on it's own, without a flesh and blood human body is a living soul or living person is contradicting Genesis 2:7.

And like your counterparts, you are sloppy with Scripture, and so no surprise you are sloppy with writings of others.

No one is saying there is a soul 'on it's own' before being born in mortal flesh.

Christ creates each of our souls individually and equally in the earth and wraps us in flesh of the womb, in the moment and twinkling of the eye. Each and every soul of man being born into this world.

My Christ is an all-powerful and loving Christ and Creator not limited by time nor space nor care of this life.

You're saying that God gave the flesh and blood human body a living soul but Genesis 2:7 doesn't say that.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First comes body, then comes soul, then comes man with body.

Whenever you throw away the flesh and blood human body in a discussion of the word soul , you will always be incorrect.

Not throw away (sloppy), but simply distinguish between. The flesh is not thrown away, until the spirit departs the body.

So the soul is not something that is housed in the flesh of a earthen mortal home. What you call the, flesh of a earthen mortal home, is the living soul, or living person, not something inside what you call, the flesh of a earthen mortal home.

First come sloppy, then comes contradiction.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven.

The house being first the earthly natural body, and then the heavenly spiritual body.

Once again, you are plainly corrected, and you will not receive it.

Sometimes I enjoy doing so as an exercise of Scriptural discipline, and other times I don't both wasting the time.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

If it is the soul that sins, and God is the source of that soul....

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man became a living soul, not that 'flesh and blood body' of man.

The main difference between you an me, is I read Scripture exactly as God wrote It, word for word, because He does so for a reason.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.




So you say. Until you quote Scripture perfectly saying so, it's only what you say. Simply show a Scripture where God says man is his body, or his body is the man. Until then your sloppiness with Scripture helps you to replace 'man', with flesh and blood body.

You might try quoting Scripture, as I do, then give the simple sense of it, rather than just speaking from your own undisciplined mind on the things of God.


And like your counterparts, you are sloppy with Scripture, and so no surprise you are sloppy with writings of others.

No one is saying there is a soul 'on it's own' before being born in mortal flesh.

Christ creates each of our souls individually and equally in the earth and wraps us in flesh of the womb, in the moment and twinkling of the eye. Each and every soul of man being born into this world.

My Christ is an all-powerful and loving Christ and Creator not limited by time nor space nor care of this life.



And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First comes body, then comes soul, then comes man with body.



Not throw away (sloppy), but simply distinguish between. The flesh is not thrown away, until the spirit departs the body.



First come sloppy, then comes contradiction.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven.

The house being first the earthly natural body, and then the heavenly spiritual body.

Once again, you are plainly corrected, and you will not receive it.

Sometimes I enjoy doing so as an exercise of Scriptural discipline, and other times I don't both wasting the time.

 

[robert derrick]

When we die the body returns to the dust from which it sprang. That dust was created by God.

And the soul returns to God who gave it.

True.

The soul and body are not the same in creation, though created at the same time, and they are separated at the end of this life, until the resurrection of the body from the grave.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[robert derrick]

If it is the soul that sins, and God is the source of that soul....

Christ is the Creator of each soul, not the 'source'.

Christ is not the 'source' for sinning, if a soul sins against Him.

Now, if Christ made flesh full of sin for souls to dwell in on earth, then He would be the tempter of souls to sin, because of their sin-born skin.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Christ is the Creator of each soul, not the 'source'.

Christ is not the 'source' for sinning, if a soul sins against Him.

Now, if Christ made flesh full of sin for souls to dwell in on earth, then He would be the tempter of souls to sin, because of their sin-born skin.

Who is the source?

 

[robert derrick]

Who is the source?

Source is not a Scripture word for me. So define source.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

So long as we are speaking of the 'source' for our choosing good and evil, then so long as we are the 'source', then we are lost to the temptations of the devil, against whom we have no defense apart from Christ.

The devil is never judged as the source for our choosing, but if we give our choosing to the Lord, then He becomes the 'source' of our life lived, as well as the One who Created us in the first place.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The whole point of the thread is, that neither devil nor the flesh is judged as the 'source' for our choosing good or evil.

God is the source for our Creation, and He wants souls that choose Him to be the source for our living.

To put it plainly: Not that I ever thought of it, but if I had ever told my dad, that it was my body's fault for doing something wrong, he would have given me double whippings for my playing stupid games and insulting him.

OSAS that plays that game with doctrine of God, does not take God seriously as a real Person and Judge.

He's just a theory in the air to such people, like the prince and power of the air. Which is where such spiritual psychosis comes from.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man became a living soul, not that 'flesh and blood body' of man.

The main difference between you an me, is I read Scripture exactly as God wrote It, word for word, because He does so for a reason.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.




So you say. Until you quote Scripture perfectly saying so, it's only what you say. Simply show a Scripture where God says man is his body, or his body is the man. Until then your sloppiness with Scripture helps you to replace 'man', with flesh and blood body.

You might try quoting Scripture, as I do, then give the simple sense of it, rather than just speaking from your own undisciplined mind on the things of God.


And like your counterparts, you are sloppy with Scripture, and so no surprise you are sloppy with writings of others.

No one is saying there is a soul 'on it's own' before being born in mortal flesh.

Christ creates each of our souls individually and equally in the earth and wraps us in flesh of the womb, in the moment and twinkling of the eye. Each and every soul of man being born into this world.

My Christ is an all-powerful and loving Christ and Creator not limited by time nor space nor care of this life.



And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

First comes body, then comes soul, then comes man with body.



Not throw away (sloppy), but simply distinguish between. The flesh is not thrown away, until the spirit departs the body.



First come sloppy, then comes contradiction.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven.

The house being first the earthly natural body, and then the heavenly spiritual body.

Once again, you are plainly corrected, and you will not receive it.

Sometimes I enjoy doing so as an exercise of Scriptural discipline, and other times I don't both wasting the time.

You saying we should only quote God Word is in error, because you're saying nobody should reason on the scriptures and that is just wrong.
What I said about Genesis 2:7 is true, God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. You trying to say that God didn't make man a flesh and blood human body from the dust from the ground, is ridiculous, no, you even trying to imply man isn't a flesh and blood human creature is ridiculous.

You saying, "Christ creates each of our souls individually and equally in the earth and wraps us in flesh of the womb, in the moment and twinkling of the eye. Each and every soul of man being born into this world," is contradicting Genesis 2: 7. Genesis 2:7 shows that God didn't give us souls but that we are souls. Genesis 2:7 shows that it's the combination of God forming from the dust of the ground a flesh and blood human body and blowing the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul. By what you said above you're saying that we have souls not that we are souls as the scriptures show. So for you or anyone to say that we have a soul wrap in flesh will always be in error because God didn't give us a soul, by wrapping it in flesh.

You saying, "First comes body, then comes soul, then comes man with body," isn't in agreement with the scriptures, because Genesis 2:7 doesn't say this, you're continuing to contradict Genesis 2:7. The scripture at Genesis 2:7 says first God formed the flesh and blood human body then he blew the breath of life(spirit, not soul) into the flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person. So it's the combination of the flesh and blood human body with the breath of life(spirit, not soul) in the flesh and blood human body that makes the flesh and blood human body a living soul or living person.

You saying, "The house being first the earthly natural body, and then the heavenly spiritual body," you're not even going by what these scriptures you quoted are saying. These scriptures are saying that while on earth before they died they were flesh blood living humans or living souls, just as all humans are. But in the resurrection they will be resurrected with a different body, not with flesh and blood human bodies which they had before they died but in the resurrection they will be resurrected with immortal, incorruptible spirit bodies. They did not have these immortal, incorruptible bodies while on earth before they died.

 

[robert derrick]

You saying we should only quote God Word is in error, because you're saying nobody should reason on the scriptures and that is just wrong.

The admonition is to quote Scripture as written, and then teach from it plainly. In this way we avoid saying things without any sense of Scripture, or in obvious contradiction to Scripture.

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

You see how I do so myself? I quote Scripture and give the common sense reading of it to others.

What I said about Genesis 2:7 is true, God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, then blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person.

Of course you believe that. And I have already shown the error of it by quoting Scripture, which means nothing to you, as I did not expect it to. When responding to OSAS believers as yourself, I am not doing so with any thought of correcting you, because you have proven that to be impossible, but now I only use your words for an exercise in Scriptural reproof, as much for myself as anyone else. Practice makes perfect.

. You trying to say that God didn't make man a flesh and blood human body from the dust from the ground, is ridiculous, no, you even trying to imply man isn't a flesh and blood human creature is ridiculous.

You wouldn't know what anyone is trying to say, if it does not agree with your belief, because like Scripture, you do not actually read what is written to quote and make sense of it. You don't want to, because you only want to continue believing what you like. I now understand that about all OSAS believers such as yourself.

The point being, I have concluded you do not insult the intelligence of others on purpose, but rather are in that peculiar manner of clindendess, where you cannot even comprehend what others are saying or trying to say.

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

And so, Scripture teaches us that the first man's flesh and blood body was made of the dust of the ground

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

And anyone saying otherwise is ridiculous, and anyone saying someone else quoting it is saying otherwise is beyond ridiculous, which can only be explained by the manner of blindness in the mind of that person.

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

You saying, "Christ creates each of our souls individually and equally in the earth and wraps us in flesh of the womb, in the moment and twinkling of the eye. Each and every soul of man being born into this world," is contradicting Genesis 2: 7.

Thanks for quoting me. So now we can see how you misinterpret it.

Genesis 2:7 shows that God didn't give us souls but that we are souls.

True. And you get me wrong of course. I never said we are given souls by God but are created souls by God.

So for you or anyone to say that we have a soul wrap in flesh will always be in error because God didn't give us a soul, by wrapping it in flesh.

And now you contradict Scripture in order to support you false interpretation of my words.

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

The soul wrapped in flesh of the womb.

You saying, "First comes body, then comes soul, then comes man with body," isn't in agreement with the scriptures, The scripture at Genesis 2:7 says first God formed the flesh and blood human body then he blew the breath of life(spirit, not soul) into the flesh

True, and thanks for quoting me. Like the man said to Butch Cassidy, "I like to read my name in the paper."

God does not breathe the soul into the body of flesh, but now wraps the soul in the womb of flesh and blood.

The use of 'comes' is not from where nor to where, as you misinterpret, but is only in order of Scripture, as with the rhyme, first comes love, then comes marriage, then comes man in a baby carriage.

And that is a good example of why marriage is the first prophecy made by man on earth, because it shows the relationship for the Godhead, as well as of God creating man in His own image: First comes God forming the body of dust with loving care, then comes the marriage of God breathing His Spirit into the man, and then comes the baby Man in the body of flesh.

It is still the same creation of marriage between Christ and every single soul of man wrapped Personally by Him in the swaddling womb of the woman.

That's good stuff and just thought of it, thanks much. You see how good learning comes from correcting bad teaching?

You saying, "The house being first the earthly natural body, and then the heavenly spiritual body," you're not even going by what these scriptures you quoted are saying. These scriptures are saying that while on earth before they died they were flesh blood living humans or living souls, just as all humans are. But in the resurrection they will be resurrected with a different body, not with flesh and blood human bodies which they had before they died but in the resurrection they will be resurrected with immortal, incorruptible spirit bodies. They did not have these immortal, incorruptible bodies while on earth before they died.

True. But once again, you purposely try to make what I say into something different, just so you can disagree with it, and think you are correcting it by Scripture.

That's peevishness of little children.

The shape, form, and general appearance of our mortal bodies will also be seen in our resurrected spiritual bodies, because it is our mortal bodies that will be resurrected from the dust of the earth.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.

It is the resurrection of the dead body.

The only ones who say they have already recieved their spiritual incorruptible bodies, are those spiritual psychotics that claim the first resurrection is past, and they are disembodied souls already saved forever in heavenly places with their new spiritual bodies, while their poor old hapless mortal bodies are just walking around sinning like always, until they finally collapse of exhaustion back to the earth.

That is if soulless zombies can get that exhausted.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

robert Derrick said,
You wouldn't know what anyone is trying to say, if it does not agree with your belief, because like Scripture, you do not actually read what is written to quote and make sense of it. You don't want to, because you only want to continue believing what you like. I now understand that about all OSAS believers such as yourself.[/QOUTE\]

First of all I don't believe in OSAS, and you accusing me that I am, shows you don't know me, therefore will accuse me of false things.
Another thing, you saying above, I won't believe anyone who isn't agreeing with me, well that's true if they're contradicting scripture, meaning what I said concerning Genesis 2:7 that God took dust from the ground formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life into that flesh and blood human body, and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul. That's true and consistent with Genesis 2:7. You saying that because I said the flesh and blood human body became a living soul and not that man became a living soul is completely unreasonable.


The Hebrew scriptures meaning, those scriptures that were first written in the Hebrew language, show that the flesh and blood human body is a soul whether it be a living soul(Genesis 2:7) or a,dead soul(Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6) At Leviticus 21:11 the Hebrew words translated dead body in English translations are, "naphshoth" which is plural and it's followed by the Hebrew word "meth," which means dead. Combined they mean dead soul. The Greek words here that are translated dead body in English translations is psyche followed by teteleutekuiai, the perfect participle of "decease," combine to mean "soul deceased, or deceased soul" At Numbers 6:6 the English translations translate the Hebrew words, "nephesh meth" as dead body, but the Hebrew language says literally dead soul(or deceased soul), so Genesis 2:7 and Leviticus 21:11 and Numbers 6:6 show that a flesh and blood human body is a soul, it's either a living soul or dead soul.

robert Derrick said,
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

And anyone saying otherwise is ridiculous, and anyone saying someone else quoting it is saying otherwise is beyond ridiculous, which can only be explained by the manner of blindness in the mind of that person.[/QUOTE\]

you're basically saying that people shouldn't reason on the word "man." You can deny that God formed the dust of the ground into a flesh and blood human body, but I believe what Genesis 2:7 says that the flesh and blood human body came from the dust that God took from the ground. But since you don't believe God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body, where did the flesh and blood human body come from robert?

robert quoted my reply,
So for you or anyone to say that we have a soul wrap in flesh will always be in error because God didn't give us a soul, by wrapping it in flesh.

Then Robert said,
I never said we are given souls by God but are created souls by God.


Then Robert says,
And now you contradict Scripture in order to support you false interpretation of my words.[/QOUTE\]
I'm not contradicting anything I'm just not agreeing with your reasoning because as long as you say the soul is wrapped in human flesh or flesh of the womb you are in error because you are saying that the soul is separate from the body by reasoning that way, because Genesis 2:7 shows us that the flesh blood human body is the soul not that the soul is wrapped in flesh or the womb of the flesh. The scriptures don't say that God put in man a soul, which is what you're saying when you say that the soul is wrap in human flesh or womb of flesh. The human body is the soul, not something inside the flesh and blood body that the flesh and blood body is wrapped around. To be in agreement with scripture you're going to have to believe that it's the flesh and blood human body that became a living soul when God blew the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood human body, because God did made mankind flesh and blood human creatures. It's this flesh and blood human creature that is a soul not something inside the flesh and blood human creature, not something the human flesh is wrapped around in any sense.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

robert Derrick said,

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

And anyone saying otherwise is ridiculous, and anyone saying someone else quoting it is saying otherwise is beyond ridiculous, which can only be explained by the manner of blindness in the mind of that person.[/QOUTE\]

At Genesis 2:19 it says that God formed the animals from the dust from the ground. So just as God formed various flesh and blood animal bodies from the dust of the ground God formed the flesh and blood human body from the dust from the ground.

Anyone who says that animals are not created like the first human was created is contradicting scripture. Animals and the first human was created by God by him taking dust from the ground forming that dust into flesh and blood bodies, then blowing the breath of life into those flesh and blood bodies, and those flesh and blood bodies became living souls.
With animals God formed from the dust of the ground various flesh and blood animal bodies then blew the breath of life(spirit) into those various flesh and blood animal bodies and all those various flesh and blood animal bodies became living souls or living animals.
With the first human, God took dust from the ground and formed it into a flesh and blood human body then blew the breath of life (spirit) into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body became a living soul or living person..