the sounding of the second trumpet Part 1, 2 and 3

[guysmith]

[SIZE=12pt]The sounding of the second trumpet describes a burning mountain being “cast” into the sea. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 8:[/SIZE] 8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Jeremiah 51 describes future Babylon as a “mountain” which will be made to a “burnt mountain”…..

Jeremiah 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord.25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

…..and at her demise, she will be cast to and sink into a body of water.

Jeremiah 51:63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

Based on Jeremiah 51, can the Burning Mountain described in Revelation 8: 8 be the Babylon?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Did the possibility ever occur to you that Jeremiah was prophesying about the Babylon that existed in his day and has since been destroyed?

 

[daq]

[SIZE=12pt]The sounding of the second trumpet describes a burning mountain being “cast” into the sea. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 8:[/SIZE] 8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Jeremiah 51 describes future Babylon as a “mountain” which will be made to a “burnt mountain”…..

Jeremiah 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord.25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

…..and at her demise, she will be cast to and sink into a body of water.

Jeremiah 51:63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

Based on Jeremiah 51, can the Burning Mountain described in Revelation 8: 8 be the Babylon?

Actually it is not "destroying mountain" but rather "mount of the destroyer" as shown by the KJV translation of Exodus 12:23 which has the identical form and usage of HSN#7843 "shachath" (which is "hamashchiyt" underlined in both TUA Transliterations below).

Exodus 12:23 KJV
23. For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Exodus 12:23 TUA
23. W`abar YHWH lingop 'et- Mitsrayim. Wra'ah 'et- hadam `al- hamashqowp w`al shtey hamzuwzotuwpacach YHWH `al- hapetach wlo' yiten hamashchiyt labo''el- bateykem lingop.

Jeremiah 51:25 TUA
25. Hinniy 'eleyka har hamashchiyt, n'um- YHWH, hamashchiyt'et- kal- ha'arets wnaTiytiy 'et- yadiy `aleykawgilgaltiyka min- hacla`iym uwntatiyka lhar srepah.

"har hamashchiyt" ~ "mount/mountain of the destroyer"

Likewise the final word used for "burnt" or "cremated" in the above Jeremiah quote, (also underlined) is HSN#8316 "srephah" which is an idiom-wordplay pertaining to HSN#8313-8314 "Saraph" (used in Torah for the "fiery serpent" and also in Isaiah for the holy Seraphim) revealing that the prophet speaks of the "king" of Babylon, (a spirit "king" as in one of the "seven mountains"). This is not to say the the second trumpet is necessarily the king of Babylon, (which would be out of order) but it certainly concerns one of the seven devils which must needs be cast out for one to become an Israelite son.

 

[Trumpeter]

I believe that the great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea mentioned in Rev 8 is what causes this:

"Behold, I shall grab hold of the Pacific plate, and I shall twist it! Lo, I shall press down upon it heavily, and it shall tip, it shall crack!... It shall surely buckle!...
Behold, many waters shall flow backward in that day. No more shall I cause the ocean to know its place. No more shall I say to the waters, “You shall proceed no further.” For I shall strike the northernmost parts, until they are no more. I shall reach down to the south, into the great treasuries of ice and snow, and push them into the sea in one day. And the seas shall increase by measure before the eyes of all these multitudes, before the eyes of all those who dwell near the coastlines, and before the paled faces of the wealthy, who by greed and evil gain have constructed tall towers and built extravagant houses upon the shores. Watch! Be awestruck in astonishment, O foolish people who build upon the sand! Watch how swiftly calamity overtakes you, and how the waters inundate and swallow up the shores, how the land shrinks back at the power of the sea!..."

Excerpt from:

The God of Israel Has Set His Face To Uplift and To Abase... To Gather and To Pour Out Judgment

http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_God_of_Israel_Has_Set_His_Face_To_Uplift_and_To_Abase..._To_Gather_and_To_Pour_Out_Judgment

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trumpeter.

I believe that the great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea mentioned in Rev 8 is what causes this:

"Behold, I shall grab hold of the Pacific plate, and I shall twist it! Lo, I shall press down upon it heavily, and it shall tip, it shall crack!... It shall surely buckle!...
Behold, many waters shall flow backward in that day. No more shall I cause the ocean to know its place. No more shall I say to the waters, “You shall proceed no further.” For I shall strike the northernmost parts, until they are no more. I shall reach down to the south, into the great treasuries of ice and snow, and push them into the sea in one day. And the seas shall increase by measure before the eyes of all these multitudes, before the eyes of all those who dwell near the coastlines, and before the paled faces of the wealthy, who by greed and evil gain have constructed tall towers and built extravagant houses upon the shores. Watch! Be awestruck in astonishment, O foolish people who build upon the sand! Watch how swiftly calamity overtakes you, and how the waters inundate and swallow up the shores, how the land shrinks back at the power of the sea!..."

Excerpt from:

The God of Israel Has Set His Face To Uplift and To Abase... To Gather and To Pour Out Judgment

http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=The_God_of_Israel_Has_Set_His_Face_To_Uplift_and_To_Abase..._To_Gather_and_To_Pour_Out_Judgment

"Behold"? "Lo"? "surely"? Why are you talking that way?! God doesn't need to speak like He's reading it from some King James Version of prophecy! "It will surely buckle"? Then it will buckle! And, don't call me "Shirley!"

This whole thing is nonsense and ludicrous! Why would God hit the Pacific Ocean when the prophecy is about the LAND OF ISRA'EL?! It would be much more likely to be the Atlantic Ocean, or better still, the Mediterranean Sea! THAT'S the body of water most likely to affect the LAND!

Besides, you are FORGETTING GOD'S COVENANT!

Genesis 8:20-9:17
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
KJV

Job 38:3-11
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
KJV

And, `Iyowv's (Job's) record of God's words is CLEARLY about the re-creation after the Flood and not the original Creation, because verse 8 talks about tectonic movements, verse 9 talks about thick clouds that didn't occur before the Flood, and verses 10 and 11 talk about the continental shelves, cutting off the "proud waves" from beneath, attenuating the cyclic motion of the waves.

God is not going to break His own covenant! No, the next world-wide cataclysm will be the Fire, which was also prophesied in 2 Peter 3 and in Revelation 20.

 

[veteran]

[SIZE=12pt]The sounding of the second trumpet describes a burning mountain being “cast” into the sea. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Revelation 8:[/SIZE] 8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Jeremiah 51 describes future Babylon as a “mountain” which will be made to a “burnt mountain”…..

Jeremiah 51:24 And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord.25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

…..and at her demise, she will be cast to and sink into a body of water.

Jeremiah 51:63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:64 And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

Based on Jeremiah 51, can the Burning Mountain described in Revelation 8: 8 be the Babylon?

The answer is no, because the endtime Babylon's desctruction comes in one hour when Jesus returns. The 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial marks the time of Jesus' return.

 

[Trumpeter]

Shalom, Trumpeter.


"Behold"? "Lo"? "surely"? Why are you talking that way?! God doesn't need to speak like He's reading it from some King James Version of prophecy! "It will surely buckle"? Then it will buckle! And, don't call me "Shirley!"

This whole thing is nonsense and ludicrous! Why would God hit the Pacific Ocean when the prophecy is about the LAND OF ISRA'EL?! It would be much more likely to be the Atlantic Ocean, or better still, the Mediterranean Sea! THAT'S the body of water most likely to affect the LAND!

Besides, you are FORGETTING GOD'S COVENANT!

Genesis 8:20-9:17
20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
KJV

Job 38:3-11
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
KJV

And, `Iyowv's (Job's) record of God's words is CLEARLY about the re-creation after the Flood and not the original Creation, because verse 8 talks about tectonic movements, verse 9 talks about thick clouds that didn't occur before the Flood, and verses 10 and 11 talk about the continental shelves, cutting off the "proud waves" from beneath, attenuating the cyclic motion of the waves.

God is not going to break His own covenant! No, the next world-wide cataclysm will be the Fire, which was also prophesied in 2 Peter 3 and in Revelation 20.

Shalom Retrobyter,

I'm not talking that way.
These are words from The Lord.
I might ask you, how do you know how The Lord has to speak?
If you don't like the word "buckle" replace it with "bend and give way under pressure or strain" but the word "buckle" conveys the same meaning while only using one word.
God is not just hitting the Pacific ocean, His wrath will be poured out upon the whole world during the Tribulation.
The prophecy in Rev 8 is about the whole world, not just the land of Israel.
I'm not forgetting God's covenant, the world will never be destroyed by a flood again. This judgement only affects 1/3 of the seas and of course the coastal areas of the earth.
And you are correct the next worldwide cataclysm will be by fire.

Thus says The Lord: I am calling all peoples to repent and to turn! My face is turned against you! My shoulders are set! My hand is stretched forward!... WOE! WOE! WOE! TO THOSE WHO DWELL UPON THE EARTH! The fire is kindled!... All flesh shall burn!
I shall strike the animals, and they shall rage against you! I shall strike the waters, and they shall rise up against you! From bitterness to the raging of the seas, the waters shall oppress you!... Death shall increase quickly!
I shall strike the mountains, and they shall speak and bring forth a great noise! They shall consume you and bury your cities! I shall strike the heavens, and it shall rain down fire and flooding rain, with a great multitude of hail!
Lo, even the detestable birds who dwell there shall descend upon you, and torment you seven days! I shall strike the core of the earth, and it shall be shaken! And all manner of plagues shall ascend upon you from beneath!...

Excerpt from:

You Have Entered In
http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=You_Have_Entered_In

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Guysmith

I am going to give you an imprecise answer as follows.....

Through all my years reading the bible ...... (from the back of my mind) I often considered some connection between Mountains being cast down and Babylon being cast down etc ..... pretty much what you alluded to in your OP.

I had always planned someday to do a good study of it .... but never have..... I find it interesting that you are doing so now.

Hope you can figure at least some of it out.

Thanks.

 

[guysmith]

In Revelation 8 we see at the sounding of the first four trumpets that 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 of the rivers, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3……is burnt or turned to blood. This could imply that 1/3 of every tree worldwide is burned and 1/3 of every river worldwide is turned to blood. OR....

…..is the sounding of the second trumpet (burning mountain) and extinction level event which impacts 1/3 of the planet(in one area)?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Shalom Retrobyter,

I'm not talking that way.
These are words from The Lord.
I might ask you, how do you know how The Lord has to speak?
If you don't like the word "buckle" replace it with "bend and give way under pressure or strain" but the word "buckle" conveys the same meaning while only using one word.
God is not just hitting the Pacific ocean, His wrath will be poured out upon the whole world during the Tribulation.
The prophecy in Rev 8 is about the whole world, not just the land of Israel.
I'm not forgetting God's covenant, the world will never be destroyed by a flood again. This judgement only affects 1/3 of the seas and of course the coastal areas of the earth.
And you are correct the next worldwide cataclysm will be by fire.

Thus says The Lord: I am calling all peoples to repent and to turn! My face is turned against you! My shoulders are set! My hand is stretched forward!... WOE! WOE! WOE! TO THOSE WHO DWELL UPON THE EARTH! The fire is kindled!... All flesh shall burn!
I shall strike the animals, and they shall rage against you! I shall strike the waters, and they shall rise up against you! From bitterness to the raging of the seas, the waters shall oppress you!... Death shall increase quickly!
I shall strike the mountains, and they shall speak and bring forth a great noise! They shall consume you and bury your cities! I shall strike the heavens, and it shall rain down fire and flooding rain, with a great multitude of hail!
Lo, even the detestable birds who dwell there shall descend upon you, and torment you seven days! I shall strike the core of the earth, and it shall be shaken! And all manner of plagues shall ascend upon you from beneath!...

Excerpt from:

You Have Entered In
http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=You_Have_Entered_In

Shirley you've got to be kidding. :lol: Try reading the Bible with this in mind: God is not confused nor does He contradict Himself. The church of latter day saints hasn't gotten the point yet, but if they did they might actually get saved.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, guysmith.

The description that we find in Revelation 8:8-9 of the results from the second shofar-sounding needs to be carefully considered (as do ALL Scriptures):

Revelation 8:8-9
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
KJV

We don't know the extent of the earth that this judgment covers. Indeed, all we have are the words translated "the sea," "teen thalassan" and "tees thalassees" in verse 8 and "tee thalassee" in verse 9. In all three cases, this word "thalassa" means a SPECIFIC "salty" body of water. It does NOT refer to all water everywhere on the surface of the earth!

From Isra'el's perspective, they had two "seas" that are called in the KJV, the "former sea" and the "hinder sea," these being the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, respectively. And, since we are talking specifically from YOCHANAN'S (JOHN'S) perspective on the Isle of Patmos between Greece and Turkey, this is most likely talking about the Mediterranean Sea, the sea upon which the Roman Empire was most reliant.

We absolutely MUST quit thinking globally about the words we find in the prophecies of Revelation! While a few might be considered global in scope, MOST ARE NOT! Remember: The people to whom he was writing were mostly agricultural societies and trading societies in which agriculture played a dominating role. They did not envision a "globe" or a "sphere" for their concept of the world! The "earth" (Hebrew: erets; Greek: gee) meant "LAND," to them! It was the GROUND they tilled or that all peoples tilled at the greatest extent! All they knew of the Roman Empire was that it covered the land from the countries in what is now Spain to Egypt and in what countries they covered to the east to portions of what is now India, all the known world! Therefore, Rome was considered a "world empire!"

It's not 1/3 of all life died in all the oceans; it's 1/3 of all life died IN THAT PARTICULAR BODY OF WATER! It's not 1/3 of all ships sailing anywhere on the globe; it's 1/3 of all ships sailing ON THAT PARTICULAR SEA! It was 1/3 of THAT BODY OF WATER that was contaminated with blood!

The Greek word translated as "as it were" is the word "hoos," pronounced as "hose" except with an "s" sound instead of a "z" sound at the end of the word. It means "like" or "as." This meteorite looked LIKE a "huge mountain burning with fire" that will splashdown in the Mediterranean Sea! And, such a splashdown WOULD make huge waves that could devastate much of the surrounding lands with waves of 50 feet or higher, a "tsunami!" HOWEVER, the fact that it only destroys 1/3 of the ships upon the water and only 1/3 of the life within the water suggests that although it LOOKED LIKE a "huge mountain," it really WASN'T a "huge mountain!" It certainly wouldn't have been a "Mount Everest" (estimated at 178.5 billion tons)! Although devastating, it certainly will NOT be an ELE!

 

[guysmith]

In part one I presented the possibility that the burning Mountain which was cast into the sea at the sounding of the second trumpet is Babylon. In part two I suggested that the sounding of the second trumpet could be an event which destroys 1/3 of the planet.

In this, part three, I would like to introduce the possibility that this extinction level event will be so forceful that it will cause the earth to “reel to and fro like a drunkard.”

Isaiah 24:20
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; an it shall fall, and not rise again.

And if the earth begins to wobble, would not the heavens appear to be shaking?

Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[guysmith]

Shalom retrobyter,


Christ mentioned an ELE:

Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Isaiah states that “the earth shall reel to and from like a drunkard… and it shall fall, and not rise again,”

Isaiah 24:20
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

….which pretty much sounds like an ELE

I am assuming from your position (that the sounding of the trumpets is not an ELE) your studies have placed the ELE suggested by Christ and Isaiah can be found in another part of Revelation? Or are you suggesting that there will be no ELE at all?

 

[Trumpeter]

Shalom, guysmith.

The description that we find in Revelation 8:8-9 of the results from the second shofar-sounding needs to be carefully considered (as do ALL Scriptures):

Revelation 8:8-9
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
KJV

We don't know the extent of the earth that this judgment covers. Indeed, all we have are the words translated "the sea," "teen thalassan" and "tees thalassees" in verse 8 and "tee thalassee" in verse 9. In all three cases, this word "thalassa" means a SPECIFIC "salty" body of water. It does NOT refer to all water everywhere on the surface of the earth!

From Isra'el's perspective, they had two "seas" that are called in the KJV, the "former sea" and the "hinder sea," these being the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean Sea, respectively. And, since we are talking specifically from YOCHANAN'S (JOHN'S) perspective on the Isle of Patmos between Greece and Turkey, this is most likely talking about the Mediterranean Sea, the sea upon which the Roman Empire was most reliant.

We absolutely MUST quit thinking globally about the words we find in the prophecies of Revelation! While a few might be considered global in scope, MOST ARE NOT! Remember: The people to whom he was writing were mostly agricultural societies and trading societies in which agriculture played a dominating role. They did not envision a "globe" or a "sphere" for their concept of the world! The "earth" (Hebrew: erets; Greek: gee) meant "LAND," to them! It was the GROUND they tilled or that all peoples tilled at the greatest extent! All they knew of the Roman Empire was that it covered the land from the countries in what is now Spain to Egypt and in what countries they covered to the east to portions of what is now India, all the known world! Therefore, Rome was considered a "world empire!"

It's not 1/3 of all life died in all the oceans; it's 1/3 of all life died IN THAT PARTICULAR BODY OF WATER! It's not 1/3 of all ships sailing anywhere on the globe; it's 1/3 of all ships sailing ON THAT PARTICULAR SEA! It was 1/3 of THAT BODY OF WATER that was contaminated with blood!

The Greek word translated as "as it were" is the word "hoos," pronounced as "hose" except with an "s" sound instead of a "z" sound at the end of the word. It means "like" or "as." This meteorite looked LIKE a "huge mountain burning with fire" that will splashdown in the Mediterranean Sea! And, such a splashdown WOULD make huge waves that could devastate much of the surrounding lands with waves of 50 feet or higher, a "tsunami!" HOWEVER, the fact that it only destroys 1/3 of the ships upon the water and only 1/3 of the life within the water suggests that although it LOOKED LIKE a "huge mountain," it really WASN'T a "huge mountain!" It certainly wouldn't have been a "Mount Everest" (estimated at 178.5 billion tons)! Although devastating, it certainly will NOT be an ELE!

Shalom Retrobyter,

I disagree with you.
The people who had the Word of God knew all about the world being round and even how it was suspended in space way before John wrote the Book of Revelation.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; [He] hangs the earth on nothing.

In the Book of Isaiah, he wrote:


Isa 40:21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

Isa 40:22 [It is] He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And the #1 meaning for the Hebrew word "erets" is:


1) land, earth
a) earth
1) whole earth (as opposed to a part)
2) earth (as opposed to heaven)
3) earth (inhabitants)

The people that John wrote to did indeed know that.
This information wasn't lost until the dark ages when people started to believe that the earth was flat.
The church had God's word and they withheld it from the people.

If you look at a map, the earth is roughly divided into 3 big oceans or seas, if a big object was to strike one of them, 1/3 of the ships in the world would be destroyed and 1/3 of the life in the sea would also die.

This is global.

 

[veteran]

When in our Lord's Book of Revelation, it's very important to remember how He used the 'sea' and 'waters' as symbolic.

Rev 17:15
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
(KJV)

Rev 13:1
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
(KJV)

Zech 13:8-9
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on My name, and I will hear them: I will say, "It is My people": and they shall say, "The LORD is my God."
(KJV)


1st Third:
Rev 8:11
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
(KJV)

2nd Third:
Rev 9:18
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
(KJV)


Rev 9:3-6
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
(KJV)

The 5th trumpet gives an opposite contrast to the first 4 trumpets. The locusts are commanded to not hurt any green thing or grass of the earth, but only 'sting' those not sealed with God's sealing for five months.

The 6th trumpet mentions a third of men killed by what comes out of the mouths of the locusts, revealing the symbology is pointing to spiritual killing and spiritual death. That's the kind of death Zech.13 is also pointing to, a spiritual death of being cut off from The LORD.

 

[veteran]

Why are you trying to do a Hal Lindsey diatriabe here, mis-interpreting Scripture like Isaiah 24?

The Isaiah 24 chapter is about the time of God's judgment upon this earth to END this present world order. It is the time of Christ's coming on the day of The LORD, the day Peter spoke of in 2 Pet.3:10 when the elements (man's works on the earth) will melt with fervent heat.

Isa 24:6
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
(KJV)

Isa 24:19-23
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)

That very last verse in bold is about Christ's future Milennium reign of Revelation 20.


Thus it is VERY UNBIBLICAL to try and place that Isaiah 24 event of God's judgment to end this world at Christ's coming back to the time of the 2nd Trumpet of Revelation 8. You must be TRYING to drumup false evidence for the false Pre-Tribulational Rapture Theory of men.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trumpeter.

Shalom Retrobyter,

I disagree with you.
The people who had the Word of God knew all about the world being round and even how it was suspended in space way before John wrote the Book of Revelation.

Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; [He] hangs the earth on nothing.

In the Book of Isaiah, he wrote:


Isa 40:21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

Isa 40:22 [It is] He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants [are] like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And the #1 meaning for the Hebrew word "erets" is:


1) land, earth
a) earth
1) whole earth (as opposed to a part)
2) earth (as opposed to heaven)
3) earth (inhabitants)

The people that John wrote to did indeed know that.
This information wasn't lost until the dark ages when people started to believe that the earth was flat.
The church had God's word and they withheld it from the people.

If you look at a map, the earth is roughly divided into 3 big oceans or seas, if a big object was to strike one of them, 1/3 of the ships in the world would be destroyed and 1/3 of the life in the sea would also die.

This is global.

Well, of COURSE you disagree with me. You're not happy unless you're disagreeing with me! The truth is still that there are FOUR oceans and SEVEN continents. Didn't you learn that in grade school?! Are you forgetting this on purpose or did it just slip? Look at a GLOBE, not a map! Shall I list them for you? Let's see...

The seven continents are...
North America
South America
Europe
Asia
Africa
Australia
Antarctica

The four oceans are...
The Atlantic Ocean
The Pacific Ocean
The Indian Ocean
The Arctic Ocean

You probably left out the Arctic Ocean, and some even consider the body of water surrounding Antarctica to be a FIFTH ocean, the Southern Ocean! Each of these bodies of waters have their own currents and cycles that are different enough from one another as to make them fairly independent of each other. They are INDEED four (or rather, five) distinct oceans!

Sorry that it doesn't fit with your theory, but so goes the way of theories.

The truth is that the people of the world at the time that Yochanan wrote the Revelation did NOT know about the earth being a globe! That's just wishful, American-fantasy, thinking. And, as far as your definitions for erets, don't you understand that "earth" means "DIRT," the "GROUND?!" YOU CAN'T GO BY OUR MODERN SCIENCE WHEN DISCUSSING SUCH MATTERS! They didn't HAVE our modern science back then! GOD knows the truth, but He doesn't necessarily share that truth with others, even His prophets!

A case in point: Have you considered how long it took the Europeans to understand that the earth is round, even with the advantage of Job 26:7 and Isaiah 40:21-22? And, those who named the name of Christ were the PROPONENTS for a flat earth, calling Copernicus and Galileo to "recant their evil ways!"

The people to whom Yochanan wrote didn't "know that the earth was a globe"; they wouldn't have CARED that it was a globe! That would have been a "useless fact" that didn't help harvest the crops or tell when planting should begin.

So, the bottom line is that I don't agree with YOU! Here's a simple proof that you apparently have neglected:

Ecclesiastes 1:5
5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
KJV

So, does the sun travel across the sky and hurry back to its starting point, or does the earth rotate with respect to the sun? The final truth is that it doesn't really matter. From our various perspectives, it is a relative matter. When a person jumps up and down on a train traveling at 50 mph, is he indeed jumping straight up and coming straight down, as he would see the matter, or is he actually jumping in an arc at the same speed as the train, as an outside observer would see?

Does the farmer know that his field is very slightly curved to follow the curvature of the earth, or does he believe his land is flat? Doesn't he measure area as though he was measuring a flat plane?