The Sun orbits the earth in the Qur'an

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Elisha Kai

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Nov 21, 2007
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DOES THE SUN ORBIT THE EARTH? Just wondering how do Muslims explain these following passages, which are found in the Qur'an: (
God is) the one Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion? (Sura 21: 33).
It seems that the day and night correspond with the movements of the sun and moon; in other words the orbit of the sun brings forth the day and the night follows with the night. This obviously as we are all aware of contradicts the what our scientific observation confirms today. Furthermore the Qur'an states:
It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)(Sura 36: 40).
Again we are made aware of the orbit of the sun and the moon, yet now we are told that these cannot catch up with each other. Furthermore the passage reveals that there is a correspondence between the orbits of the sun and moon and the day and night. In other words, the sun and moon orbit the earth in parallel lines, without catching each other up, obvioulsy to avoid a mixture of day and night. Since the modern man realises that the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits the earth this passage reveals yet another fallacy.But there is more:
By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him?(Sura 91: 1-2)
It does seem as if the moon actually follows the sun in this orbit; this corresponds strongly with pre-Islamic writers who depicted the daily race between the sun and moon around the earth.I guess the most sufficient answer to these passages must come from Muhammed himself:
Sahih Al-Bukbari clearly confirms some of these as scientific facts (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421: Narrated Abu Dharr):The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ?And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.?" (36.38)
Frankly therefore no Muslim needs (even to consider) to reply to this post and prove me wrong! Muhammed himself has already provided the answer (a different reply would in fact degrade the actual prophet of Islam, what kind of a Muslim would dare to do that?)! And what is the Answer? WELL THE SUN ORBITS THE EARTH!
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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Well, I think I can explain it.The astronomical observations in both the Bible and the Qu'ran are based on the knowledge of the men who wrote the books.Thats why the Bible says the world is flat.I am not familiar with the Qu'ran, but it probably says so too.Matthew 4:8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Luke 4:5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:It should be noted that the greek philosopher Aristotle (384 - 322BC) thought (knew) the world to spherical.The philosopher Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276 - 194BC) even managed to measure the size of the earth with a suprising accuracy.Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone.Take care and keep warm.
 

Thunder1

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Grape:The astronomical observations in both the Bible and the Qu'ran are based on the knowledge of the men who wrote the books.Thunder1:Difference with these two books are that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Quran is not.Grape: Thats why the Bible says the world is flat.I am not familiar with the Qu'ran, but it probably says so too.Matthew 4:8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Luke 4:5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.It should be noted that the greek philosopher Aristotle (384 - 322BC) thought (knew) the world to spherical.The philosopher Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276 - 194BC) even managed to measure the size of the earth with a suprising accuracy.Thunder1:The Bible says the earth is flat, really ???Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
 

Elisha Kai

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Nov 21, 2007
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Again you are changing the focus on the topic which is on Islam to the Bible and Christianity. Again I suggest that you start another thread on the matter and let us deal with this particular issue in the light of Islam on this particular thread. However lets just look at what you posted. Probably were few people believed in a flat earth beyond Aristotle, Columbus most certainly did not believe that the earth was flat contrary to modern myths. As you also posted yourself, even Isaiah the prophet pointed out that the earth is spherical:
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
There are other verses too.But notice that the verse even indicates that the heavens is continually being stretched out (at least in the Hebrew language), which implies Cosmological expansion. I am not saying this proves that the Bible is the Word of God or that such prediction is miracolous but they do point out that the Bible is fairly accurate on science. Grape wrote:
Well, I think I can explain it.The astronomical observations in both the Bible and the Qu'ran are based on the knowledge of the men who wrote the books.Thats why the Bible says the world is flat.I am not familiar with the Qu'ran, but it probably says so too.
Elisha Kai replies:You will certaiInly find verses that relate to observation, particularly in the Psalms, but they are not revelations in the same matter as Isaiah but poetical literature. I am not sure whether anyone in Isaiah's new that the earth was a circle, or that the heavens were being stretched out. Now lets look at the passages you posted:
Matthew 4:8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
No, this passage does not even indicate a flat earth. First and most in Jesus' time they did not believe in a flat earth, everything even the universe was consider spherical. The people of the time knew very well that climbing up a mountain would make it possible to see all kingdoms at the same time even though the earth was flat.No, this passage reveals a struggle between two contrasting spiritual forces; hence it is much more likely that the kingdoms were revealed to Jesus via visions.
Luke 4:5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Look at the above answer.
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
This verse actually indicates that the earth is a circle. Grape wrote:
It should be noted that the greek philosopher Aristotle (384 - 322BC) thought (knew) the world to spherical.The philosopher Eratosthenes of Cyrene (276 - 194BC) even managed to measure the size of the earth with a suprising accuracy.
Elisha Kai repliesThis was a common notion among most of the thinkers. This was a common idea. In fact if the Gospel writers were to write according to what they believed they observed, they would probably be very explicit about a spherical earth.
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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(Thunder1;37659)
Grape:The astronomical observations in both the Bible and the Qu'ran are based on the knowledge of the men who wrote the books.Thunder1:Difference with these two books are that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Quran is not.
The Muslims claim that it was.(Thunder1;37659)
Thunder1:The Bible says the earth is flat, really ???Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
A circle is a two dimensional object, a three dimensional "circle" would be a sphere.And how come noone discovered this before it was proven that the world was spherical?
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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(Elisha Kai;37668)
Again you are changing the focus on the topic which is on Islam to the Bible and Christianity.
Yes, I apologize for that. But as I wrote in the other thread, I think it is more interesting to have a comparison than to just have a stating of facts.(Elisha Kai;37668)
Again I suggest that you start another thread on the matter and let us deal with this particular issue in the light of Islam on this particular thread.
I'll do that next time. Thanks.(Elisha Kai;37668)
Probably were few people believed in a flat earth beyond Aristotle, Columbus most certainly did not believe that the earth was flat contrary to modern myths.
I think it depends on when you asked them and in what culture they lived.Columbus was born in Italy and lived between 1451 and 1506. Pythagoras, one of the most famous of the greek philosophers and one of the first to claim that the earth was round. He was born around 570BCThat gives us a gap of almost thousand years between Columbus and Pythagoras. That should make it quite difficult to compare them.(Elisha Kai;37668)
As you also posted yourself, even Isaiah the prophet pointed out that the earth is spherical: There are other verses too.But notice that the verse even indicates that the heavens is continually being stretched out (at least in the Hebrew language), which implies Cosmological expansion. I am not saying this proves that the Bible is the Word of God or that such prediction is miracolous but they do point out that the Bible is fairly accurate on science.
Yes I posted it, since that's the quote that many christians use to prove that the bible is correct. What they fail to see is that it says the world is circular or, in other words, flat.(Elisha Kai;37668)
You will certaiInly find verses that relate to observation, particularly in the Psalms, but they are not revelations in the same matter as Isaiah but poetical literature. I am not sure whether anyone in Isaiah's new that the earth was a circle, or that the heavens were being stretched out.
It's all in the interpretation. If you really really look for something, you will probably find it. Haven't you noticed that noone managed to see those facts before there were proof for them. It is like the people who think you can predict the future using the texts of Nostradamus even though the only thing they have been able to predict is the past.(Elisha Kai;37668)
No, this passage does not even indicate a flat earth. First and most in Jesus' time they did not believe in a flat earth, everything even the universe was consider spherical. The people of the time knew very well that climbing up a mountain would make it possible to see all kingdoms at the same time even though the earth was flat.No, this passage reveals a struggle between two contrasting spiritual forces; hence it is much more likely that the kingdoms were revealed to Jesus via visions.
How handy, this part is just symbolical. A question, how do you know which parts are symbolical and which parts are real?(Elisha Kai;37668)
This verse actually indicates that the earth is a circle.
Look at the above answer.(Elisha Kai;37668)
This was a common notion among most of the thinkers. This was a common idea. In fact if the Gospel writers were to write according to what they believed they observed, they would probably be very explicit about a spherical earth.
It was a common idea after someone thought about it. Pythagoras said it was round in the 500's before christ, the gospel writes all lived after christ.(don't know what I meant with the last one... oh well)But, to get this thread on the rails again:Between 1993 and 1995, Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz, the grand mufti of saudi arabia claimed that the world was flat. He even issued a fatwa.It should be noted that he later denied that he said it and that his only claims were that the earth didn't rotate.- - -Take care guys.
 

Elisha Kai

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Nov 21, 2007
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Grape wrote:
A circle is a two dimensional object, a three dimensional "circle" would be a sphere.And how come noone discovered this before it was proven that the world was spherical?
Elisha Kai replies:You are committing a very typical fallacy here by applying means of applying or understanding a word in our present context to back to its meaning 3000 years ago.The word circle in Isaiah 40: 22 is a translation from the Hebrew word 'Chuwg' certainly, it could refer to a two-dimensional circle but not necessarily, as it also could be applied to a sphere; there is no Hebrew word that differentiates between these two. In fact the Bible even considers the depth of the sea to be spherical (Proverbs 8: 27). In Job 38: 14 there is even reference to the earth being as clay to the seal shaping in the same form it is being rotated. While the verses may not specifically state that the earth is a ball like figure, it certainly does not need to apply to a flat earth; in fact the language might easily explain a spherical earth, as Chuwg also translates spherical, and many expert Bible translaters have favoured such a translation.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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(Grape;37680)
According to http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=02329 Chuwg means:Why not use Occams Razor here.But this is about the Qu'ran, so lets just agree to disagree?
I'm sure the people back in the day didn't use 3D programs. From seeing the earth from any angle (from outer space), you'd see it as a circle.
1323.jpg
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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The world would look like a circle if it were a circle too.And please let me remind you, they had the third dimension back then too.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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(Grape;37686)
The world would look like a circle if it were a circle too.And please let me remind you, they had the third dimension back then too.
I'm sure they would know that a tree would stick up. But they would have no way of describing it with the basic vocabulary that they had. It's not like they could draw a tree sticking up on a piece of paper.But what am I to say? I don't even know any of this information. I'm just making assumptions.
 

Grape

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Feb 22, 2008
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Lets say that they would describe a sphere as a circle.Wouldn't they describe a circle as a circle too?Lets use Occams Razor again. (you gotta love that razor)What do we get?