The Tabernacle Experience..Is it really new?

[Niki]

Monday, April 29, 2013




THE MESSIANIC TABERNACLE EXPERIENCE HOSTED BY DEBRA GROLLER MINISTRIES AT CAMP HALUWASA, HAMMONTON, NEW JERSEY




The interest in Messianic/Hebraic roots, history and experiential religious practices such as the Seder meal has grown tremendously. Its popularity can be credited no doubt to the desire of postmodern Christians and others for the next great mystical experience, signs and wonders, and of course non-doctrinal, non-dogmatic, non-judgmental religion, devoid of the Biblical focus on Jesus Christ alone, or anything else related to the Protestant Reformation, or the constraints of the five solas.

Debra Groller Ministries ....Pentecostal/Word of Faith


More here

It has been suggested that this is a new experience during which the participant(s) ask to have a spirit enter them that they are referring to as the Holy Spirit. Great emotions are said to follow...love and feelings of ecstasy

There is more of course, but this should be examined under the light of the true Gospel, emotional hysteria aside, and one should question if this is really the Holy Spirit or some other spirit

Open to discussion...scripture is of course very welcome with reference please and all articles should have a link if quoted









The founder of "The Tabernacle Experience" is Jeanne Whittaker, who in her own words, describes her mystical experiences of being "whispered" to by a spirit entity who she believed to be God Himself saying ‘Bring Israel to them, build my Tabernacle” here: http://www.tabernacleexperience.com/story.shtml.
Whittaker herself describes what her vision was in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQY65mAhbQU
I don't believe in hiding anything. Bring it all into the Light. Discuss it all....

My personal opinion is that people are acting as mediums when they allow these spirits to speak through them. This is not in keeping with the
gifts of the spirit and not in keeping with the NT Christian church .

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Typically the Pentecostal operates on feelings , emotions , and sub-conscience thoughts .

Trouble is they think it is ... "The Holy Spirit" ..... "speaking to them"

 

[Niki]

Well that's not very helpful Arnie. You have just made personal comments that basically validate the same coin as what you appear to distain...
just the flip side.

Do you have something of interest or perhaps some scripture? That, would actually be helpful
You may as well call me a Pentecostal, as I am not a cessationist either. You might be informed though, that one does not have to be Pentecostal to believe
what the Bible teaches about the Holy Spirit.

One post and already sidetracked.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is this is an attempt to tie this woman's thing with Justin's Tabernacle thing? I don't think this is what Justin is referring to.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Thought the Tabernacle Experience that the lady talks about in the youtube vid is very interesting (and I "feel" she has a good spirit about it) this is not what I am talking about. Although, it may be one way God is preparing people to recieve it. What I am talking about is the spiritual antitype of the Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles and the spiritual experience of "Love of the Spirit" that comes with it.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

Hardly.

The reference is to a mystical experience...not the physical reconstruction. I guess the references to mysticism and God in person speaking to this women
are overlooked?

(and I "feel" she has a good spirit about it) this is not what I am talking about.

But you give her a thumbs up because you 'feel' it? Not because you know she is not in error? You agree that God personally spoke to her?

Feelings are not what truth is about. I guess if one feels particularly bad on a given day, then they must 'feel' God is not there because if He was,
then only good feelings would ensue.

My experience has been that when you receive the Tabernacles experience of "Divine Love " or " Love of the Spirit" it releases the gifting inside of you and allows the Holy Spirit to flow freely. Suddenly, you start to walk in the Spirit and Christianity does indeed becomes easy and light. All the things that used to weigh you down fall off and you just want to do His will. You start to hear His voice clearly and trust Him explicitly. As the body of Christ starts to unite as God desires amazing things start to happen and you begin to feel you don't want to leave each other. You know, by the Spirit, when those who care about are in trouble and you do whatever is needed to supply what each other needs.

This is the place I was privileged to visit for a while and is a place I really would like to live in forever. However, until my brethren are ready to come with me I cannot cross over and occupy that land fully. My testimony to you Wormwood and to everyone else is that what happened in Acts is actually how God wishes for His people to live and function in this present age and especially because of the darkness that is gathering around us. We were never meant to live without signs and wonders to aid in the preaching of the Gospel. Ours is a union between God and man just as there was a union between Christ and His Father.

An experience is not relationship. Yet, that is what this Tabernacle thing that is being discussed proposes. It proposes that you ask another spirit to come into you and that you
wait for it to tell you what to do. This spirit is being called the Holy Spirit

An invalidated subjective experience is being proposed as the desire God has for all and every one of us. This experience is not in the Bible (but it has been around in various
forms for literal ages . We are being asked to set aside the Bible and trust in an experience.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Although, it may be one way God is preparing people to recieve it.

Is this something you think GOD would approve of:

non-doctrinal, ... devoid of the Biblical focus on Jesus Christ alone, or anything else related to the Protestant Reformation, or the constraints of the five solas

 

[Niki]

In Justin's own words:

I feel lead by the Spirit to lay out the framework for what needs to be done to help bring about the restoration of the spiritual fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles. This is by no means an exhaustive treatise on this subject but rather just a broad sketch of the steps that I believe we should take to accomplish this goal.
To begin with, the reason why we, as ministers of the full gospel of Christ, need to work towards the restoration of this feast is that this third and final spiritual experience is necessary to bring about the perfection of the saints.

Justin FEELS led. He FEELS led to usher in the perfection of the saints through a mystical experience.

And this from his website:

To reiterate, the main points of our plan to restore the spiritual fulfillment of the third and final Feast of Tabernacles to the Body of Christ are as follows.
1. We will concentrate on evangelism of the un-churched so that will can write this vision on a blank canvas.
2. We will restore the office and authority of the apostle and prophet to our movement.
3. We will teach the restored first century Tabernacle theology to our new converts
4. We will seek converts who currently practice or are from polygnist families near areas of conflict where the normative church is not as active.
5. We will seek to make disciples of young adults ages 18 to 25 years old to form the core of our first wave of Tabernacles saints. When they have been taught and become disciples we will send them out as God leads to raise up a second wave of Tabernacle saints.
6. We will seek to keep this movement decentralized so that if one part is hindered the rest of it can continue to function and carry on our vision.

Quite a plan. Number 3 is particularly enlightening.

Perhaps he would also like to rewrite the gospels and the New Testament.

 

[daq]

Hi Niki, good topic. Perhaps the reason why modern Christianity has such a problem dealing with these kinds of movements and thinking is because most prefer to believe that Torah is "done away" with. All one needs to do if he or she desires to understand the will of God concerning these things, (how to deal with "whispering spirits") is to read Deuteronomy 13 in the Light of what Messiah Yeshua has taught from the Gospel accounts. Whispering spirits are likened unto "the wife of your bosom, (inner wife-mate) or the "son of your mother" who is your twin-spirit brother, the close companion-counterpart "who is like unto your own soul", etc., etc. All of those are "false prophet" unclean spirits that come in times of quiet feasting in the Word telling us things that the Word does not actually say; enticing the man to go down paths that will take him far away from the commandments and love of God. These are indeed spirit-voices, (and this is not even to say audible voices which is a much worse scenario) and we are commanded to "stone them to death" not letting them continue to live another day. Therefore one must first discover what is a "spiritual stone" before he might even be capable of stoning such a genos-kind of false prophet to death, (likewise they leave not but with prayer). :)

 

[Niki]

I found this interesting response to Justin in another thread in which Justin is pushing his experience. This person is responding to Justin with concern as have I.

He (Jesus) did warn us that there would be lying signs and wonders. Control is not from God. It is sorcery. That word comes from the Greek "Pharma". the same word that we use in the world of drugs. There are mind altering drugs in the world that take over the minds of those who use them. God will not take over a person's mind or body. He will fill us with His presence, the fruit of which includes SELF control. Those who are taught to give over the control of their minds or bodies, are being misled. We are NEVER to empty our minds to allow anything in that wants to come in. This opens the door to the world of sorcery. The power of suggestion is very compelling and can result in many temporary "manifestations", as it were. I have seen both God at work and the power of suggestion at work. It is not wise or advised that we judge hastily according to appearances. But hey, if things are happening as a result of people giving over control of themselves, the red flags should be flying.

They have noted the same as I have with regards to allowing control by a spirit. Control is absolutely not the working of the Holy Spirit. One of the fruits or evidence of a
person who is living for Christ and is filled with the Spirit of God, is SELF CONTROL...not spirit control. The Holy Spirit does not control believers. That is false teaching at
its most dangerous!!!

Daq: I have studied this subject for years and its just the same evil spirits wearing a new suit....they will never act any different then how they have acted for centuries.
They have a new and foolish audience who believe that God was just kidding when He said don't mess with that stuff.

All of those are "false prophet" unclean spirits that come in times of quiet feasting in the Word telling us things that the Word does not actually say; enticing the man to go down paths that will take him far away from the commandments and love of God. These are indeed spirit-voices, (and this is not even to say audible voices which is a much worse scenario) and we are commanded to "stone them to death" not letting them continue to live another day. Therefore one must first discover what is a "spiritual stone" before he might even be capable of stoning such a genos-kind of false prophet to death, (likewise they leave not but with prayer). :)

The problem with being thus deceived, is that you are deceived. Having come out of deception, I recognize it and the seductive pull it has on the senses.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear C,

I really don't know enough about it to form an opinion either way. If they are doing because they believe they need to keep some part of the Old Testament law then I would not agree. However, if they are being led by the Spirit to learn more about the meaning of the Tabernacle as it relates to our faith these days that would not be necessarily bad.

You know, Christianity is not that cut and dried as many would like it to be. It is not that God is has fuzzy thinking but it is that humans have fuzzy thinking and often times how the Spirit has to deal with us is quite inventive.

What are five solas?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You know, Christianity is not that cut and dried as many would like it to be. It is not that God is has fuzzy thinking but it is that humans have fuzzy thinking and often times how the Spirit has to deal with us is quite inventive.

Actually, it is very cut and dried with respect to certain core teachings. Apart from those I have no problem with flexibility. "unity in essentials; liberty in non-essentials; charity in all things". I do hope you agree with my first sentence.

 

[daq]

I found this interesting response to Justin in another thread in which Justin is pushing his experience. This person is responding to Justin with concern as have I.


They have noted the same as I have with regards to allowing control by a spirit. Control is absolutely not the working of the Holy Spirit. One of the fruits or evidence of a
person who is living for Christ and is filled with the Spirit of God, is SELF CONTROL...not spirit control. The Holy Spirit does not control believers. That is false teaching at
its most dangerous!!!

Daq: I have studied this subject for years and its just the same evil spirits wearing a new suit....they will never act any different then how they have acted for centuries.
They have a new and foolish audience who believe that God was just kidding when He said don't mess with that stuff.

The problem with being thus deceived, is that you are deceived. Having come out of deception, I recognize it and the seductive pull it has on the senses.

Notice what the "wife" concerns in the following passage and how Paul writes of the commandments of the Lord:

1 Corinthians 14:32-37 KJV
32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

There is neither male nor female in the kingdom of God and the man's enemies are those of his own household, (for the man is the house). Even the so-called "prophetess" has an "inner" wife-spirit, (Deuteronomy 13:6, Micah 7:5-6, Matthew 10:35-36).

 

[Niki]

Dear C,

I really don't know enough about it to form an opinion either way. If they are doing because they believe they need to keep some part of the Old Testament law then I would not agree. However, if they are being led by the Spirit to learn more about the meaning of the Tabernacle as it relates to our faith these days that would not be necessarily bad.

You know, Christianity is not that cut and dried as many would like it to be. It is not that God is has fuzzy thinking but it is that humans have fuzzy thinking and often times how the Spirit has to deal with us is quite inventive.

What are five solas?

Blessings,

Justin

Well, you already said you had feelings about it. Your feelings were good you said.

What are the five solas.......

Those would be the five foundational scriptural truths of the Protestant reformers. They were in response to corruption and practices
developed through the RCC and under which Christians groaned

Of course, they would not be of significance to experiences as they are far too rigid and display a knowledge of scriptural doctrinal truth
Daq: deception began in the garden...seduction and perversion of truth....

The devil comes as an angel of light and argues enough truth to snare...many voices...whispering, shouting, but always saying something

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I must disagree with D's assertion that Christianity is all about self-control. It is written,

" I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Galatians 2:20

It is hard to have "self" control if you are crucified and Christ lives within you. Does that not mean that Christ controls you? How does Christ control you? He controls you through yeilding to the Holy Spirit.

Dear A,

Yes, you are correct, some things in the scriptures like salvation by faith, eternal punishment in the lake of fire, the resurrection etc are very clear. However, even in these things we only have part of the truth and there is deeper understanding to be had. But you know I am not talking about those types of things. I was making references to the people who are doing the "Tabernacle Experience" and how God may be using that to lead them into greater understanding of spiritual truths. BTW...I am going to contact them and give them my web address and see if they connect with what I am saying.

It seems that some may consider their function in the body of Christ to be somewhat like the robot in "Lost in Space." Every time they sense danger they shout "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger Will Robinson." Really, is it that necessary to do so? I think it is rather silly and un-Christlike God is well able to take care of His people and I don't think that the majority of those who feel called to the "warning ministry" are actually being led by the Spirit to do so.

In my own defense I would say that what I wish to do is direct people to a restored truth that I have found to be beneficial. I seek to have people meet God in a deeper and more meaningful way so that that might mature into the fullness and stature of Christ. This was also Pauls mission because he wanted to present people to Christ as a holy and spotless bride. People who form cults draw others to themselves and make them dependent upon what they say rather than what the His Spirit says to them personally. I think this is an important difference to make. Also, does anyone honestly think that either I am going to stop sharing what I believe or others will stop listening to what I say simply because they shout "Danger, Will Robinson?" People will make up their own minds without the need for hysterics.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Niki]

I must disagree with D's assertion that Christianity is all about self-control. It is written,

" I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Galatians 2:20

It is hard to have "self" control if you are crucified and Christ lives within you. Does that not mean that Christ controls you? How does Christ control you? He controls you through yeilding to the Holy Spirit.

Stating that Christ or the Holy Spirit are controlling anyone is a serious perversion of what those verses mean. You are declaring that we become robots and no longer have
any choice. If that is what you actually believe, then the situation is worse than I first thought. Is that what the spirit you invited into yourself told you?

It seems that some may consider their function in the body of Christ to be somewhat like the robot in "Lost in Space." Every time they sense danger they shout "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger Will Robinson." Really, is it that necessary to do so? I think it is rather silly and un-Christlike God is well able to take care of His people and I don't think that the majority of those who feel called to the "warning ministry" are actually being led by the Spirit to do so.

Do you have any biblical examples or do you just subscribe to the re-run channel? I have read a number of posts from you wherein you compare the Christian to characters in a movie or
similar like your example above. Again, you don't feel that those who try and do expose false doctrine are called of God to do so...your feelings again. Nothing solid...just how
Justin feels...always how Justin feels about anything.

If we are going to discuss feelings, then let me state, I feel, you are in error and leading and trying to lead, others into the same error.

In my own defense I would say that what I wish to do is direct people to a restored truth that I have found to be beneficial. I seek to have people meet God in a deeper and more meaningful way so that that might mature into the fullness and stature of Christ. This was also Pauls mission because he wanted to present people to Christ as a holy and spotless bride. People who form cults draw others to themselves and make them dependent upon what they say rather than what the His Spirit says to them personally. I think this is an important difference to make. Also, does anyone honestly think that either I am going to stop sharing what I believe or others will stop listening to what I say simply because they shout "Danger, Will Robinson?" People will make up their own minds without the need for hysterics.

I am glad you recognize that you are actually defending yourself with regards to your experience. The Bible does not defend it and in fact warns against it. Cult leaders
do what you are doing...they declare that their leadership is granted them by some inner leading or experience. They do exactly what you are in fact doing. They veer
from the truth and major in minors...in this case, the minor is personal experience that has nothing objective about it other than the intent to assert that God wants
everyone else to have the same experience.

Pass the cool-aid.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is hard to have "self" control if you are crucified and Christ lives within you. Does that not mean that Christ controls you? How does Christ control you? He controls you through yeilding to the Holy Spirit.

This speaks volumes... Self-control is a fruit of the spirit of wisdom that warns us to keep ourselves separated and undefiled from the world. There is no walk in Christ without it. Is not yielding our members to GOD done through self-control? Christ is not interested in controlling us; he wants us to walk as he walked: in faith. Faith is not yielding, or surrendering, to GOD; being controlled by GOD. Faith is being persuaded by GOD's words, placing confidence in what he says, and trusting that he will bring to pass what he has said he will do. If it is a real faith, our actions will conform to this.

 

[daq]

Dear All,

I must disagree with D's assertion that Christianity is all about self-control. It is written,

" I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Galatians 2:20

It is hard to have "self" control if you are crucified and Christ lives within you. Does that not mean that Christ controls you? How does Christ control you? He controls you through yeilding to the Holy Spirit.

I do not go by "D" but since there is no one else posting in this thread with a "d" at the beginning of their name I can only assume that you are speaking toward me without actually addressing me (?) If so, it is not my own assertion that "the spirits are subject to the prophets" but rather that is the assertion of the Scriptures which I hold dear. Here is another which you might ponder:

2 John 1:6-11 KJV
6. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Just remember you are "the porter of the house" while the House Master is away in a far journey. (Mark 13:34).
And how could it be that one might justinadvertently allow such a one into his house?
By receiving his doctrines knowing that they are in opposition to the holy Word . . . :)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Well that's not very helpful Arnie. You have just made personal comments that basically validate the same coin as what you appear to distain...
just the flip side.

Do you have something of interest or perhaps some scripture? That, would actually be helpful

You may as well call me a Pentecostal, as I am not a cessationist either. You might be informed though, that one does not have to be Pentecostal to believe
what the Bible teaches about the Holy Spirit.

One post and already sidetracked.

Either I completely misunderstood your opening post or you misunderstood my reply.

I would be very cautious if some pentecostal told me to open up and receive .... ''some mystical experience"

New Agers and occultist and mystics do that stuff

I do not. Sorry.

 

[Niki]

No, I think you understood Arnie...you don't have to be Pentecostal to fall into these things is my point.

I'm just saying let's not point at a particular denom...

Yes, I realize that the woman in my op is Pentecostal...but FYI, there are actually many diff types of Pentecostal....the op also included WOF or word of faith...

I don't wish to be involved with any of those...there is alot of excess but you can go the other way and deny everything.

I agree about receiving an experience. Or I should say refusing to agree to receive an experience.

We receive Christ and the Holy Spirit. That's it. That's biblical.