The Tabernacle Experience..Is it really new?

[Rex]

I am amazed by your ability to insert your thoughts, that are truly your own, as though you knew what everyone else is thinking.

There are billions of people on the earth. You are just one as am I. However, God is in charge of the whole big shebang...not you and not I.

Bye for now.


The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

In Numbers...did you miss that?

Doesn't matter I guess.

Or is that too literal? Anyway, bye again.

Generational curses,
18 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

Ezekiel 18:1-32

If you don't like Eze then look up Jeremiah he said the same thing, interesting that both of these prophets were prophesying before and during the Babylon captivity. Was this captivity the last of the generational curses? The 430 years owed to the Lord Ezekiel 4:4-6 for Israel and Judah not resting the land every 7th year? Interesting enough this adds up to 70 sabbath years "every 7th year" that they did not allow the land to rest.

Ezekiel 4:4-6
Notice that the land was without rest 70 sabbath years during the 430 years of iniquity. Later God allowed the land to rest exactly 70 years while His people were in captivity in Babylon. God’s accounting system is completely accurate.

I would go on to speak about Daniel and the 70 weeks being determined "given back" to Israel after the captivity, but it's enough that you consider what is meant by the proverb of sour grapes and Lord bring it to an end. Surly generations were being punished by the sins of the fathers leading up to the captivity in Babylon.

Leviticus 26:33-35

2 Chronicles 36:15-21

 

[Niki]

Jesus was born GOD... Jesus was not born GOD, but became GOD through obedience... hmmmm... this is very interesting... I think this is the crux of the whole matter...

The former: one is born GOD who is continually perfected through sanctification by faith
The latter: one becomes GOD through the obedience of experiencing (abiding in) GOD until the fullness of GOD is reached.

Two spirits...

The former: In this you know the spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ (the eternal word) having come in the flesh is of God: 1 John 4:2
The latter: And the serpent said unto the woman, Truly, you won't die, because God knows that in the day you eat, your eyes will be opened, and you will become as GOD, knowing good and evil. Genesis 3:4-5

just thinking out loud here...

I still think this was an interesting thought and conclusion

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

If I may...

I personally don't agree with Justin's view that Jesus became GOD, but I do respect his desire to know the spirit behind the letter of doctrine and law. I sincerely wish we could have had a more civil conversation to mutually explore these things together. Unfortunately, IMO he was treated like a demon by some, which kind of discouraged open discourse. I can't blame him for leaving. Some may feel vindicated, but I think we have all lost because he actually did have something good to share (as we also do) whether it was perfect, or not. Rather than feeling threatened by his belief that Jesus was not born GOD, I would have really liked to explore that with him to fully understand the issue and how it affects one's doctrines. Now I can't.

With all due respect, the Church of Christ fought such heresy earlier on and the divinity is no small matter. Remember, Paul stated through the Holy Spirit that Christ is the foundation. My friend this bloke doesn't even have one. So in your ignorance you have misplaced sympathy and have betrayed Jesus. I suggest you correct your ignorance through a reexamination of the TRUTH.

 

[daq]

I am amazed by your ability to insert your thoughts, that are truly your own, as though you knew what everyone else is thinking.

There are billions of people on the earth. You are just one as am I. However, God is in charge of the whole big shebang...not you and not I.

Bye for now.


The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’

In Numbers...did you miss that?

Doesn't matter I guess.

Or is that too literal? Anyway, bye again.

Yes, of course it is literal, but not the literal way that you see it in the machinations of your imagination. You have forced a contradiction in the Scripture because you do not believe what Ezekiel the prophet tells you that it means. Do you not understand that the prophets expound Torah? I have missed many things and likewise learned many things the hard way. And I know for sure that your future holds the same, (unless of course your are a twice dead castaway-throwaway fish but that is not for me to decide). There was already a whole thread concerning these things, not that I am so proud I would expect everyone else to know about it, but just so you understand, I have not missed anything regarding this subject matter because, well, I have already personally been through it myself walking with the Father in Yeshua. Either heed the warning or forebear, what is it to me?

Good points. Likewise there are four "generations" to the first age of every anthropon-man, (for the Scripture cannot be broken) and the sons of the same first age both marry and are given in marriage, as in the days of Noah, (like the Girgashite man of the Gergesenos had "married" himself to a "legion" of Girgashite warriors, Woe!). The Matthew 12 passage which you have quoted supplies one of the many examples of this "four-generational" truth found in the Scripture:

Matthew 12:39-45 KJV
39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

The "generation" here above, ("genea") is the same "genos-kind-generation" of which the Master speaks in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32, concerning the Parable of the Fig Tree and the fourth "genea-generation" of the man, (for every man has a fig and a vine, whether for the good, or whether for the evil). The fourth generation of the man, (which is likened to the tree) is likewise the generation of the viper-cockatrice, and the coming of a fiery flying Seraph is the fruit thereof; "What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Most High hath founded Zion".

Therefore what Yeshua says to the four in Olivet Discourse he says TO ALL, WATCH! (Mark 13:37).

The reason why I said that the Scripture cannot be broken is this:

Genesis 15:16-18 KJV
16. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18. In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Almost immediately in the first book of Torah, and within the Covenant to Abram-Abraham, we see that there is something peculiar about the filling up of iniquity in the fourth generation. In this case it is the iniquity of the Amorites which will come to its fruition in the fourth generation of the children of Israel as they are brought out of Egypt by the mighty right arm of YHWH. The children of Israel will then be used to displace the wicked Amorites from their "land" in the fourth generation, (that is the fourth generation of the seed of Abraham and children of Israel). Then we find again certain statements concerning the third and fourth generation in Torah. The next place it is found is within the Ten Words Decalogue:

Exodus 20:1-6 KJV
1. And God spake all these words, saying,
2. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

And again with the giving of the Ten Words Decalogue the statement is repeated:

Exodus 34:4-7 KJV
4. And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
5. And the Lord descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord.
6. And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

And from these statements therefore of old time has there been the teachings of what is called the "generational curse" in some quarters. However, when we arrive at the prophets Jeremiah and Ezekiel we find the following passages which seemingly contradict Torah:

Jeremiah 31:27-30 KJV
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Ezekiel 18:1-4 KJV
1. The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,
2. What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3. As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:19-20 KJV
19. Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

See the problem here? The prophets do not "change" the Law but rather expound the Law. To say that Jeremiah and Ezekiel have "altered" Torah is blasphemy and to say that they teach the altering or nullification of Torah also means that they would necessarily have to be considered false prophets and their works rejected. There is only one alternative because the Scripture cannot be broken and the foundation of all the holy Scripture is the holy Torah Law. What then is the answer? It is not that we and our fathers have not fully understood that there are necessarily four generations to the one man. This is the only choice if one will continue to believe both Torah and the Prophets who expound Torah such as Jeremiah and Ezekiel. This changes everything, but not the Word, rather it changes everything in our own understanding of it and this is especially true when it comes to the Prophets and the Writings. The following passage is another perfect example. Notice that the "fourth generation" of the man has a "leach with two daughters" attached to the "backside" of the passage, (making a sum total number of seven). Notice also that the fourth generation of the man has teeth like swords and jaw teeth as knives:

Proverbs 30:11-17 KJV
11. There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12. There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13. There is a generation [3], O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation [4], whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
15. The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
16. The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
17. The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

Of old then what metals have swords and knives been made with?
Surely swords and knives where made from IRON ~

Daniel 7:7 KJV
7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Torah has therefore not been altered, or done away, or nullified, nor has it been abolished, but rather the old ways of the Pharisaical understandings of the physical way of seeing things, (which leads to bondage) are done away with by the teachings, doctrines, and Testimony of Yeshua. And there be just four "seasons" to the first "aionos-age" of the man: Winter, Spring, Summer, and the Autumn Harvest. And "the trees" do likewise abide within these ordinances of the Maker; and these things have everything to do with the "earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah" which has nothing to do with topography maps of the physical land of Israel proper or geologic events which have occurred there but rather the earthquake in the days of Uzziah concerns the Scripture and what is written about Uzziah king of Judah in the Scripture.

But if I know you, just like me and everyone else, you will ignore and continue on your merry way into the fire pan. :lol:

 

[Rex]

Thats an interesting read a good eye daq.
But I see something else, I don't believe that the sour grape proverb was ever inspired by God. Notice His opening statement through Ezek

Ezek 18:1-2
Ezek 18:1-2 NIV 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
Ezek 18:1-2 KJV 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying,
Ezek 18:1-2 ESV 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel,

Then of course we see verse 3
Ezek 18:1-2 NIV 3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.
Ezek 18:1-2 KJV 3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
Ezek 18:1-2 ESV 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel.

Now I would like all of you people that have heard your paster tell you that Romans 11:25 means that God has blinded the nation of Israel until the end times when the "miss placed" 70th week is said the be fulfilled, to consider what I'm about to say.

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

I ask you this, is this a generational blindness that your pasters are teaching you? Can you not clearly see the pasters teaching such things are simply repeating the errors of Israels past? Clearly God is not at all pleased with this proverb,

Ezek 18:2-3 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

Just be careful who you listen to, and believe only what the Lord has placed upon your heart, search the scriptures to see what you have heard is true.
That proverb is being used every day through out most of the churches in the US.

The really sad thing about it is, most people believe it

And their about to go into captivity

Just as it happened in the past, please remember the whore and what was written on her forehead
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

Babylon that's what was written,

The very same thing Ezek and Jer were warning Israel about, captivity

In Babylon

 

[daq]

Thats an interesting read a good eye daq.
But I see something else, I don't believe that the sour grape proverb was ever inspired by God. Notice His opening statement through Ezek

Ezek 18:1-2
Ezek 18:1-2 NIV 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:
Ezek 18:1-2 KJV 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying,
Ezek 18:1-2 ESV 2 “What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel,

Then of course we see verse 3
Ezek 18:1-2 NIV 3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.
Ezek 18:1-2 KJV 3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.
Ezek 18:1-2 ESV 3 As I live, declares the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel.

Now I would like all of you people that have heard your paster tell you that Romans 11:25 means that God has blinded the nation of Israel until the end times when the "miss placed" 70th week is said the be fulfilled, to consider what I'm about to say.


I ask you this, is this a generational blindness that your pasters are teaching you? Can you not clearly see the pasters teaching such things are simply repeating the errors of Israels past? Clearly God is not at all pleased with this proverb,

Ezek 18:2-3 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:

‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

Just be careful who you listen to, and believe only what the Lord has placed upon your heart, search the scriptures to see what you have heard is true.
That proverb is being used every day through out most of the churches in the US.

The really sad thing about it is, most people believe it

We are in full agreement concerning the proverb Rex. You quoted the same passage from Ezekiel that I quoted an underlined in my reply above. That is the point: the sages also believed in a "generational curse" and the "sour grapes proverb" was one of the proverb-idioms they used to explain it. The prophets are specifically addressing this proverb and telling the rulers of the people that they are flat out wrong. Who therefore is suffering from "partial blindness" or hardness of heart today? Those Jews who reject Yeshua already know what they are rejecting, (and "salvation" is of the Jews). For the same reason the Zionists get along better with the Dispensationist Lindseyite crowd because the Zionist Jews still desire a physical empire over the world. Who then is it that still has a vail over the heart and mind today when reading the Old Covenant? Would it not be most all of the modern mega-church shepherds and their flocks who do not comprehend that they themselves are supposed to be grafted into the commonwealth of the all Israel of YHWH? Truly that vail is done away in Messiah but only if one is truly IN Messiah. But then again, if they were truly grafted in Israelites in the Spirit of Torah, it would necessarily mean that Torah could no longer be "abolished" for themselves and the enlightened age of wonton lawlessness would need to immediately come to an end. :lol:

 

[Rex]

We understand and agree, mega churches are mega churches because many seek and few find, it's as simple as that.
It's also the celebration of the birth of a nation today, the 4th of July, I can't want to see the birthing of Israel LOL

It'll certainly be a surprise celebration

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

With all due respect, the Church of Christ fought such heresy earlier on and the divinity of Christ & is no small matter.

Remember, Paul stated through the 'Holy Spirit' that Christ is the foundation. My friend this bloke doesn't even have one. So in your ignorance you have misplaced sympathy and have betrayed Jesus. I suggest you correct your ignorance through a reexamination of the TRUTH.

---------------------------------------------------------------​

Given the gravity of this subject I will point your attention too... For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2Jn 1:7& 10-11

 

[Rex]

There every where JB but we have the mind of Christ.

I'm not to sure what got into ChristRoseFromTheDead's head with that post about Justin myself.
http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=201814

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

If I may...

I personally don't agree with Justin's view that Jesus became GOD, but I do respect his desire to know the spirit behind the letter of doctrine and law. I sincerely wish we could have had a more civil conversation to mutually explore these things together. Unfortunately, IMO he was treated like a demon by some, which kind of discouraged open discourse. I can't blame him for leaving. Some may feel vindicated, but I think we have all lost because he actually did have something good to share (as we also do) whether it was perfect, or not. Rather than feeling threatened by his belief that Jesus was not born GOD, I would have really liked to explore that with him to fully understand the issue and how it affects one's doctrines. Now I can't.

There every where JB but we have the mind of Christ.

AMEN! So may it always be, brother. SHALOM

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I'm not to sure what got into ChristRoseFromTheDead's head with that post about Justin myself.
http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=201814

What got into my mind was the discernment that Justin has a godly heart. He is a very honest person who loves GOD, IMO; and I admire and respect his desire to have a closer walk with GOD. IMO he is vague about many things and tentative in speech because he is trying to avoid the snare of fixating on the letter to the detriment of obedience to the spirit. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. There is an over-fixation on the mind in this (western) culture; I think Justin is trying to find his way around that.

I personally think he is deceived about some things, but I don't feel threatened because I know he is searching (because he admits as much), and I feel secure in the power of GOD to keep me from error, and my ability to openly discuss things with him. There is a difference between a person who says 'this is the way it is' and one who says 'I think this is the way it is'. I wanted to explore Justin's beliefs because I see both truth and error therein, and wanted to follow the circuit of synapses in my own mind to determine just where his doctrine jumps the tracks, or if his beliefs are completely rooted in error.

I sense at his core an obedience to GOD, and think this should have been recognized and respected while respectfully addressing those things of concern..

 

[logabe]

Justin denies Jesus is God. That's enough for me.

I go by the Word of God...not anyone else's word. I do not go by tradition...but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Two nights ago, after prayer, I believe God revealed to me the goings on behind Justin's experience...the depth and the very dangerous evil of it.

Since then, Justin has finally come out of this shadows and admitted that he has forsaken the truth and does not believe in God the Father, God the
Son and God the Holy Spirit.


It is a deception and is spreading. The Bible is the only source for truth we have.

The only possible way for someone to believe these lies, is if they have given their ear to demonic spirits teaching through the fleshly lips that have
given themselves over because they are deceived. Itching ears and another Jesus...not the Jesus of scripture...another one that they say is not God.



Interesting take on scripture.

The truth is that I came into agreement with God the moment I accepted His Son as my Savior. My position in Christ became immediate...my experience
is not what saves me.

You folk really need to get back to the Bible. Whatever spirit is instructing you, it is not the Holy Spirit.

I'm talking about baby Christians that are unskillful in the word of righteousness.
Paul spoke of these in Heb. 5:13. Most Christians, including me, aren't given the
ability to agree with God with a Passover experience, because some of the things
God does is foreign to our thinking. God has to train most of us into his way of
thinking through scripture and experience.

Let's get back to the post @ hand. As I said in an earlier post, the Tabernacles Age
is in the future, but we can experience it in a limited manner in this present day by
faith. We first must understand it's prophetic meaning in order to understand what
God is teaching us.

In the beginning God gave man dominion over the earth. The problem was Adam
sinned and disqualified himself from having dominion, which caused all of his off-
spring to be disqualified as well.

Jesus came as a man in order to pay the debt that Adam left, which was, dying for
the sins of the world. The only thing that could satisfy the judgment of the Law, was
an innocent man dying to pay that price. His blood was not from Adam, but from the
Spirit. Mary was impregnated by the Father, which created a new creation man who
was God in the flesh. God was his Father, in which it made him the Son of God, but
Mary was his mother, which made him the son of man.

Jesus is our pattern, so we can become a son of God through believing the message
that God gave us of his Son. We become a son of man when we become obedient to
the things we are taught threw sanctification (Heb. 5:7-8), which qualifies us and gives
us the ability to receive the dominion mandate (Gen. 1:26), that was given to Adam in
the beginning. I must add... this doesn't save us, but it does qualify us to receive the
ability rule with Christ. You are already saved through faith in the Son of God, but if you
want to be used in a leadership role in the Kingdom, you must learn obedience and come
into agreement with everything God does.

In essence, just as Joshua and Caleb were waiting to crossover the Jordan (which means
death), we are waiting for Jesus so we can crossover into the Promised Land where we
become judges (1st Cor. 6:2), and we will be given dominion over all the earth (Dan 7:27).
We will defeat death through Jesus Christ and be given authority to teach the people of
that day the ways of the Lord (Isa. 2:3-4).

This will take place when the feast of Tabernacles is historically fulfilled. The Sons of God
that become Sons of Men through the sanctification process will qualify for this great and
wonderful event that will change the whole world system for the better (Rom. 8:21).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus is our pattern, so we can become a son of God through believing the message
that God gave us of his Son. We become a son of man when we become obedient to
the things we are taught threw sanctification (Heb. 5:7-8), which qualifies us and gives
us the ability to receive the dominion mandate (Gen. 1:26), that was given to Adam in
the beginning. I must add... this doesn't save us, but it does qualify us to receive the
ability rule with Christ. You are already saved through faith in the Son of God, but if you
want to be used in a leadership role in the Kingdom, you must learn obedience and come
into agreement with everything God does.

In essence, just as Joshua and Caleb were waiting to crossover the Jordan (which means
death), we are waiting for Jesus so we can crossover into the Promised Land where we
become judges (1st Cor. 6:2), and we will be given dominion over all the earth (Dan 7:27).
We will defeat death through Jesus Christ and be given authority to teach the people of
that day the ways of the Lord (Isa. 2:3-4).

This will take place when the feast of Tabernacles is historically fulfilled. The Sons of God
that become Sons of Men through the sanctification process will qualify for this great and
wonderful event that will change the whole world system for the better (Rom. 8:21).

We are already sons of GOD; and we became sons of man when we were born in the flesh. And the festival of tabernacles will not be fulfilled until after the lord returns.

 

[Rex]

Obviously, I am not coming back to this abusive and immature conversation .

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18467-domestic-discipline-is-it-biblical/page-2#entry201822

Doesn't seem to be your M.O. just saying

 

[logabe]

We are already sons of GOD; and we became sons of man when we were born in the flesh. And the festival of tabernacles will not be fulfilled until after the lord returns.

Yes... I agree CRFTD, we are the Sons of God when we believe on the death, burial, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ. But... God is looking for mature Sons to give rewards when
He comes @ the historical Feast of Tabernacles. If a Son continues to grow in grace, he
will be rewarded a new BODY (Rom. 8:23), and a CROWN (2nd Tim. 2:5), when the day
of the Feast of Tabernacles fully comes.

In other words, God is coming to give us an immortal body and make us Kings and Priests
(Philippians 3:20-21). We are sons of men when we learn and practice the ways of God. As
I said in the last post... Jesus is our pattern. Let me explain. Just as Jesus was born of a
woman, we also are born of a woman. God impregnates us with His Seed (Gk. sperma), and
God's seed produces His Blood in our faculties, which makes us the Son of God. When we
hear the word (seed) of God and believe it, an embryo is planted inside called Christ in you
the hope of glory. That embryo is the Son of God and you are it's mother, just as Jesus had
a mother.

At sanctification, we are casting out the bondwoman and her son, because the son of the
bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free (Gal. 4:31). In other words, if we don't
allow God to change us, we will not inherit the 1st Resurrection @ the Feast of Tabernacles.

Paul said we have to press into the Spirit to achieve the prize of the high calling, which is,
being a King and a Priest in the Age to come (Philippians 3:14). He wasn't saying to press in
to be saved, but to become a leader and qualify to inherit the 1st resurrection where you will
be blessed and holy when you take part in this historical event called the Feast of Tabernacles
(Rev. 20:6).

In the Tabernacles Age the feast will be restored and the nations will come up every year to
celebrate the feast of Tabernacles. They will enjoy the government that will be put in place by
the Overcomers and they will go up to worship the KING (Zechariah 14:16).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[veteran]

What got into my mind was the discernment that Justin has a godly heart. He is a very honest person who loves GOD, IMO; and I admire and respect his desire to have a closer walk with GOD. IMO he is vague about many things and tentative in speech because he is trying to avoid the snare of fixating on the letter to the detriment of obedience to the spirit. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. There is an over-fixation on the mind in this (western) culture; I think Justin is trying to find his way around that.

I personally think he is deceived about some things, but I don't feel threatened because I know he is searching (because he admits as much), and I feel secure in the power of GOD to keep me from error, and my ability to openly discuss things with him. There is a difference between a person who says 'this is the way it is' and one who says 'I think this is the way it is'. I wanted to explore Justin's beliefs because I see both truth and error therein, and wanted to follow the circuit of synapses in my own mind to determine just where his doctrine jumps the tracks, or if his beliefs are completely rooted in error.

I sense at his core an obedience to GOD, and think this should have been recognized and respected while respectfully addressing those things of concern..

Justin might indeed have well intentions, while being deceived by those on those doctrines teaching him. But that's not the point. JB is making the point, which I will further also for those here left that also refuse to believe our Lord Jesus Christ is God having come in the flesh.

I Jn 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

Many get so wrapped up in men's doctrines they listen to, they forget that some of the most profound statements in God's Holy Writ are often very... short and directly to the point.

In the above 1 John 4 Scripture, what's so important about Jesus Christ having "come in the flesh"?

I mean, Jesus of Nazareth was born a flesh man wasn't He? Yes, just as all other men on this earth are born in the flesh through woman's womb.

So what is SPECIAL about John's phrase "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"??? John obviously didn't mean that in the sense of just any... man born in the flesh, so what gives???


The difference is that John is actually implying that GOD came in the flesh as Jesus Christ.

Old Testament Scripture confirms that The Christ is GOD The Son. Even in Isaiah 9:6 Israel was foretold various of His Titles, like "The Almighty God", "The Everlasting Father", etc.


Even Mary's husband Joseph was reminded... of this...

Matt 1:22-23
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel", which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV)

That's a quote from the prophet Isaiah about "Immanuel" (Jesus Christ).

So no, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone who claims Jesus Christ as their Saviour while not believing He is God having come in the flesh. To refuse to believe that means to DENY not just The New Testament witness of The Christ, but ALSO... even The Old Testament witness about The Christ.

 

[Rex]

What got into my mind was the discernment that Justin has a godly heart. He is a very honest person who loves GOD, IMO; and I admire and respect his desire to have a closer walk with GOD. IMO he is vague about many things and tentative in speech because he is trying to avoid the snare of fixating on the letter to the detriment of obedience to the spirit. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life. There is an over-fixation on the mind in this (western) culture; I think Justin is trying to find his way around that.

I personally think he is deceived about some things, but I don't feel threatened because I know he is searching (because he admits as much), and I feel secure in the power of GOD to keep me from error, and my ability to openly discuss things with him. There is a difference between a person who says 'this is the way it is' and one who says 'I think this is the way it is'. I wanted to explore Justin's beliefs because I see both truth and error therein, and wanted to follow the circuit of synapses in my own mind to determine just where his doctrine jumps the tracks, or if his beliefs are completely rooted in error.

I sense at his core an obedience to GOD, and think this should have been recognized and respected while respectfully addressing those things of concern..

I apologize for waiting so long to reply

The things in my mind about Justin is he was unapproachable unless you entertained his vision.

He completely rejects any quotation of bible passages even when they might support one of his ideals
He spent considerable time trying to separate people from anything other than himself, that's a very dangerous point
The last point is, he was completely unmoved by sound warnings that certain concepts he was expressing were entirety contradictory to Gods clear path to salvation. Or that he appeared to be functioning in the enemies mode of operation which is to first attempt to separate believers from the word of God.

Strangely he actually attend a bible collage, I think he may at one time was influenced by the Mormons and now considers Pentecostals as an acceptable organization. The latter I believe is because they are probably more willing to give Justin and his vision consideration or it originated there in the first place.
He's seeking to enter in by another way and he's encouraging as many that will listen to follow "him"

Anyway his exit was apparently self imposed, he's got a bit of dram queen working in the mix as well, I wish he would at least remove the pitiful avatar pic he changed to before leaving. It has that woe is me, have pity. But in reality he is not interested in anything except promoting his vision.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

... .

I Jn 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

Many get so wrapped up in men's doctrines they listen to, they forget that some of the most profound statements in God's Holy Writ are often very... short and directly to the point.

In the above 1 John 4 Scripture, what's so important about Jesus Christ having "come in the flesh"?

I mean, Jesus of Nazareth was born a flesh man wasn't He? Yes, just as all other men on this earth are born in the flesh through woman's womb.

So what is SPECIAL about John's phrase "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"??? John obviously didn't mean that in the sense of just any... man born in the flesh, so what gives???


The difference is that John is actually implying stating that GOD came in the flesh as Jesus Christ.

Old Testament Scripture confirms that The Christ is GOD The Son. Even in Isaiah 9:6 Israel was foretold various of His Titles, like "The Almighty God", "The Everlasting Father", etc.


Even Mary's husband Joseph was reminded... of this...

Matt 1:22-23
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel", which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV)

That's a quote from the prophet Isaiah about "Immanuel" (Jesus Christ).

So no, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone who claims Jesus Christ as their Saviour while not believing He is God having come in the flesh. To refuse to believe that means to DENY not just The New Testament witness of The Christ, but ALSO... even The Old Testament witness about The Christ. Yes, and it establishes that their eyes were never opened in the first place. i.e. NO ears to hear.

Indeed Brother. The central question on which all else hangs. Get the foundation wrong all else matters not. As the scriptures state. ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM.

SHALOM

 

[daq]

Justin might indeed have well intentions, while being deceived by those on those doctrines teaching him. But that's not the point. JB is making the point, which I will further also for those here left that also refuse to believe our Lord Jesus Christ is God having come in the flesh.

I Jn 4:2-3
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

Many get so wrapped up in men's doctrines they listen to, they forget that some of the most profound statements in God's Holy Writ are often very... short and directly to the point.

In the above 1 John 4 Scripture, what's so important about Jesus Christ having "come in the flesh"?

I mean, Jesus of Nazareth was born a flesh man wasn't He? Yes, just as all other men on this earth are born in the flesh through woman's womb.

So what is SPECIAL about John's phrase "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh"??? John obviously didn't mean that in the sense of just any... man born in the flesh, so what gives???


The difference is that John is actually implying that GOD came in the flesh as Jesus Christ.

Old Testament Scripture confirms that The Christ is GOD The Son. Even in Isaiah 9:6 Israel was foretold various of His Titles, like "The Almighty God", "The Everlasting Father", etc.


Even Mary's husband Joseph was reminded... of this...

Matt 1:22-23
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel", which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV)

That's a quote from the prophet Isaiah about "Immanuel" (Jesus Christ).

So no, there is NO EXCUSE for anyone who claims Jesus Christ as their Saviour while not believing He is God having come in the flesh. To refuse to believe that means to DENY not just The New Testament witness of The Christ, but ALSO... even The Old Testament witness about The Christ.

Indeed Brother. The central question on which all else hangs. Get the foundation wrong all else matters not. As the scriptures state. ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM.

SHALOM

Indeed brethren! Both of you by your own theology and especially eschatology have denied that the Blood Atonement of Revelation 15&16 was accomplished at Golgotha. Hope the two of you understand Torah Law in this matter, (every penny, no joke). :lol:

If you notice [veteran] I did not quote the "Tabernacle" portion of your inflammatory comments because I was not speaking toward those comments in my reply. It seems there is someone else around these parts speaking of a "Tabernacle Experience" but he is not me. If you desire to know the true application of the Mishkan Tabernacle you have Moses, the Prophets, and likewise now also the Epistle to the Hebrews: but if you will not hear them perhaps then neither do you believe that one rose from the dead. By the way Leviticus 16 occurred on 14 Nisan which was the same month wherein the Tabernacle was first erected in the second year after the sons of Israel were brought forth out of Egypt. Nadab and Abihu died before the Lord on 14 Nisan, the Passover, and that is when the Most High gave the commandment to Moses for to "rehearse" the Great Day of Atonement in the tenth day of the seventh month; for in that Day, that is to say 14 Nisan, the Great High Priest Yeshua himself would make the Great Atonement, (Leviticus 16:30). If only you would likewise believe Yeshua and Paulos when they state that the man is the house, or temple, then you might also likewise understand that you are the secondary "holy place" or "ohel-mo`ed" which is the tent or Tabernacle of the Congregation, (Leviticus 16:16) which in turn is the same "temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony" (Revelation 15:5). Do you not recognize that your own current "tent" is like your travel companion, your covering, your body? This is that in the passage below which "remaineth among the children of Israel in the midst of their uncleanness." In the Great Day it will be atoned and your mortal body will then be quickened so as to serve YHWH in Spirit and in Truth.

Leviticus 16:16-17 KJV
16. And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.
17. And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

That portion underlined in the above passage concerns everyone who is a member of the commonwealth of Israel. Yet the final Atonement comes for each in his or her own appointed times, (and a son is born into the Kingdom). The same is the Great Day and Hour which no man knows, not even the angels of heaven; but the Father only, (whether in the body, or whether out of the body, not I know; YHWH knows). But first it must be determined whether or not you have "leprosy" in the walls of your house; and if you do, then it needs to be determined whether your house needs to be completely demolished or not. Hopefully you do not have that "fretting leprosy" of the Girgashite genos-kind which I had; for when a "double legion" gets into your walls there is nothing that can bind that one and the time is short from there. See Leviticus 14:33-57, Zechariah 5:1-4, and Revelation 6:1-17, for truly according to Torah all of the contents inside the house MUST be removed before the Priest comes in to do the final Atonement so that the "contents of the house" be not made unclean, (Leviticus14:36). No man is allowed inside HIS OWN HOUSE while the ceremony is performed, (Leviticus 16:17 quoted herein once more). I believe you and your modern shepherd teachers call it the Rapture, which is correct, except for the fact that your carcass-house will not be going up with your soul to stand upon a Molten Sea of glass having been mingled with baptismal fire. Therefore heed the commandment and rehearse that Great Day of Atonement by AFFLICTING your own soul; for there is no greater tribulation than that time, nor shall there ever be. If indeed you overcome in your hour of trial then surely you will know what things I speak of from the Scripture herein; but for now you are correct in that Revelation 16 has not yet happened, for you.

Revelation was written during Nero's reign before 70AD - Reply#32

Again, if you deny that Yeshua fulfilled his part in your Atonement at Golgotha then you basically deny the fact that the Son of God has come in the flesh because it is only his innocent blood which is acceptable for the Atonement, (a man can only give his flesh and blood once). The portion which is not yet fulfilled is the part where your scapegoat comes back with seven other spirits more wicked than himself and you let him back into your house despite all the Scripture warnings. And since that one is not yet dead you will have a problem that only the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek can bring to a head, and thus make the final Atonement for you, (again, that is, if indeed you overcome in your hour and are not already a twice dead castaway fish). As far as the rest of what you have thrown into your cocktail of poisonous rhetoric, (which again I did not quote) none of it really applies to myself so no thanks.

Revelation was written during Nero's reign before 70AD - Reply#32

Leviticus 16:17
17. And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

Revelation 15:7-8
7. And one of the four living creatures gave unto the seven messengers seven golden vials full of the thumos-passion-fury of the Theou, who liveth for ever and ever.
8. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of the Theou, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven strokes of the seven messengers were completed.