The True Church vs The Apostate Church

[farouk]

Clearly, with the plethora of Bibles available and the transmission of the words of the Lord in churches, on TV, mass media, etc. there is no "famine of hearing the words of the Lord".

Lots of volumes published and lots of TV - a commercial "success", maybe - are not necessarily indicative of a heartfelt yearning for Biblical doctrine.

 

[Pearl]

It's not a matter of being clever or ignorance of Latin phrases. I said that you are misapplying a single verse from a single Old Testament prophet, interpreting to apply to modern times. That's what I mean, so why are you "dancing around" the subject?

Here is the verse: “The days are coming,” declares the Sovereign Lord, “when I will send a famine through the land— not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord." Amos 8:11, NIV

Clearly, with the plethora of Bibles available and the transmission of the words of the Lord in churches, on TV, mass media, etc. there is no "famine of hearing the words of the Lord".

BTW, my preferred translation, the NET, has this as the translation of that verse: "Be certain of this, the time is coming,” says the Sovereign Lord, “when I will send a famine through the land— not a shortage of food or water but an end to divine revelation." Perhaps that is more what you mean.

So are you saying that none of the OT applies to the modern age. And I have to point out that I was not intending to 'Dance around' anything. It was just my honest view of things. Which I acknowledge may not be the same as yours.

So has that prophecy I quoted from Amos already happened?

 

[mailmandan]

The true church preaches the true gospel. The apostate church preaches a false gospel.

 

[Davy]

Yes, it *sounds* like that. And yet I'm also aware that criticizers love to take words out of context in order to "take down" vaunted leaders. I could, for example, see someone trying to explain how the common view of a "cross" has nothing to do with saving anyone, even if it is stated that Christ's cross "saves us." The argument would be that it is faith + the cross that saves, and not simply stating that a "cross" saves. In other words, knowledge and declarations of belief mean little if faith and revelation are not really present.

I'm not saying that's what these people mean, but I can see that kind of thing happening. And from my personal listening of these men, I find them to be believers, and not "fakes," no matter how bad their theological language. I would suggest they listen to others who complain in the right spirit, and recognize that language can be misleading. Then they can clear up the confusion by making explicit statements about their orthodoxy.

Christ's true servants that serve Him by STAYING IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, don't have to create sideshows to reveal the 'hirelings' in pulpits that preach FOR MONEY. All one has to do is simply OPEN UP their Bible while listening to those hirelings and notice the false doctrines of men they preach instead of staying in God's Word as written.

And the day is soon coming when those hirelings will... be judged for supporting an organizational SYSTEM over their congregations that is operated and controlled by other hirelings in some far away city that sends them Church Quarterlies, which tells them what to preach, instead of allowing Christ to be over their Church and preach directly from His Word without adding a bunch of men's LEAVEN to it!

But for the good Churches that DO... stay in God's Word as written when they preach to their congregations, those will ALWAYS BE BLESSED for doing so! And what the hirelings don't seem to understand, because God did not call them, is that by staying in God's Word to the people, teaching His Word instead of man's is where God Himself will send His faithful to learn HIS WORD and be blessed!

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Hold on there Jim! The body of Christ is every believer in this world that is in Christ through His shed Blood. They are the True Church.

Then there are those who have departed from the Cross and the Blood that saves calling themselves the Church. Apostates they are, and whom I am referring.

The Bible doesn't support this theology whatsoever. That theology wasn't formulated until the Reformers broke off from the Catholic church and tried to reconcile their split with the biblical teaching that God only leads 1 church.

Furthermore, the false church system in Rev. 17 with protesting daughter churches claim Christianity, but God says this system is worshiping Satan(Rev. 13:4). The idea that all "believers" constitute the true Church is a lie that is based on people completely disregarding what the Bible has to say. God's Church keep His laws(Rev. 14:12, 12:17), they understand bible prophecy and other biblical doctrines(Rev. 12:17, 19:10, Dan.12:10, Psa. 111:10), they believe in living by the OT and NT as Christ commanded(Matt. 4:4, Luk. 4:4, Deut. 8:3), and they are spiritual Jews(Rom. 2:29, Rev. 2:9, 3:9).

The false Gentile church in Rev. 17, on the other hand, cling to pagan traditions and beliefs that were cleverly whitewashed as "Christian", and they also reject God's commandments and His commanded festivals.

As much as they want to insist that they are Christian, the Bible says that the adherents of the counterfeit Gentile religion in Rev. 17 that masquerades as Christianity are not members of God's Church at all. Catholicism and Protestantism reject the biblical church model, they practice pagan festivals that are condemned in scripture, and they both preach gospels that are completely antithetical to the one Christ actually proclaimed(Matt. 4:23, Luk, 4:23, Acts 1:3), so it cannot ever rightfully be said that adherents of either one of these false religions constitute God's Church.

When the Bible says that Jesus built and leads 1 church in this world, that's exactly what it means: 1. The history in Rev. 2-3 contains the history of that 1 church and its 2,000 year war against the false Gentile religion calling itself "Christianity".