The Vicariousness of Christ -Netchaplain

[Netchaplain]

I believe the most important fact to remember, while we continue to learn to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15), so that we may mature unto “the stature of the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:13), is how many things we have in Christ are “imputed but not imparted” (mjs).

For example, justification means to pronounce righteous (mjs), which means the righteousness we possess is never from ourselves (Phl. 3:9) but is counted or imputed unto us from Christ. “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (1Cor. 1:30). “The righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe” (Rom. 3:22).

Righteousness is a gift (Rom. 5:17) so that we are “made righteous” (Rom. 5:19) by virtue of imputation. “That righteousness might be imputed unto them also” (Rom. 4:11). “And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead” (Rom. 4:22-24). “Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness . . .” (Jam. 2:23).

Stanford states, “To be justified means that the believer is viewed in Christ as righteous and is treated as such by God. The righteousness of our position in the Lord Jesus is increasingly manifested in our condition, as we “grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 3:18).

Stanford continues that “until we clearly see the positional perfection of our justification in Christ, our conception of, and faith in, all other aspects of our position will be out of focus.” (The Complete Green Letters, pg. 85).

 

[Episkopos]

At what point is it safe for someone who chooses to believe to impute this righteousness on himself?

 

[Netchaplain]

Righteousness was supplied at the cross and is appropriated at rebirth! If that answers the above question but I'm not sure what you're asking.

 

[Episkopos]

There is nothing vicarious about Christ's experience. We are not spectators in His passion. We are made participants experientially through the Spirit. We also must die...and be reborn anew by the Spirit. Death first and then resurrection.

Otherwise we are only speaking vanity and preaching "cheap grace".

We leave all behind in order to follow Christ. We don't just watch Jesus leave all behind for us.

This is the problem with modern Christianity...it is not Christianity at all. It is a belief system that seeks to gratify the flesh by appropriating the benefits of Jesus for us humans. Men will exploit anything and everything for their own gain...and the religious realm is among these.

When the bible says we will do exploits through the Lord...this does not mean EXPLOITING God and what He does.

People perish for such lack of knowledge.

 

[Netchaplain]

Episkopos, It's not that what He has, we produce also, but that Christ was sacrificed in our stead (vicarious) and all things are from Him to us. "

Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[jiggyfly]

I agree NC, we must trust in what God has done through Christ at the cross for righteousness just as the scriptures declare. I also agree with Episkopos, in some of what he said outside of righteousness and holiness. But the new birth is not a product of death of self.

Paul said, "and since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God's glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering."

Be careful not to get the cart before the horse. It is not our suffering that makes us children of God.

 

[Netchaplain]

I think the post gave the impresion of the idea that of our rebirth wasn't experiential but was just represented by Christ. Our rebirth was actual and not just represented. We actualy and experientialy died and rose with Christ (as Episkopos stated). This event was experiential but what it brought (justification, righteousness, ect.) is vicariously received because we cannot produce the blessings of Christ, so we receive and live in them as we reckon by faith that God imputes them unto us through Chist in us, by the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, It's not that what He has, we produce also, but that Christ was sacrificed in our stead (vicarious) and all things are from Him to us. "

Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean.

It depends who the "our" in "our stead" is, doesn't it?

As I have said, we are made PARTAKERS with Christ through our own conforming to His death. THEN the blood of Christ covers us from all sin.

Otherwise we are left with a multitude of sinners who all claim to have a special sacrificial lamb they claim as their own.

But Jesus is the Lamb of GOD not the Lamb of men.

Unless we lose our lives (of self) the blood of Christ cannot cover us. We cannot be His disciples according to the flesh.

 

[Netchaplain]

"We are made PARTAKERS with Christ through our own conforming to His death."

Episkopos, this statement is accurate accept for one word--"own". The most humbling thing is to realize is that there's nothing we can do, nor are we required to do anything of ourselves(other than receive), that can make us acceptable to God. Only Christ can make us acceptable to the Father. "He hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Eph 1:6).

We stand in Him and everything He has, other than deity. "As He is, so are we in this world" (1Jo 4:17). "And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one" (Jhn 17:22).

This is where the Father wants us---in His Son. "Hid with Christ in God" (Col 3:3). Less of self (old man)and more of Him (in the new man, by the Spirit). "He must increase, but I must decrease"--John the baptist (Jhn 3:30).

God made us to be conformed: "Made conformable unto His death" (Phl 3:10). "To be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29).

Resting In Him

 

[Episkopos]

"We are made PARTAKERS with Christ through our own conforming to His death."

Episkopos, this statement is accurate accept for one word--"own". The most humbling thing is to realize is that there's nothing we can do, nor are we required to do anything of ourselves(other than receive), that can make us acceptable to God. Only Christ can make us acceptable to the Father. "He hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Eph 1:6).

We stand in Him and everything He has, other than deity. "As He is, so are we in this world" (1Jo 4:17). "And the glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one" (Jhn 17:22).

This is where the Father wants us---in His Son. "Hid with Christ in God" (Col 3:3). Less of self (old man)and more of Him (in the new man, by the Spirit). "He must increase, but I must decrease"--John the baptist (Jhn 3:30).

God made us to be conformed: "Made conformable unto His death" (Phl 3:10). "To be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29).

Resting In Him

Our "own" death not we put ourselves to death. We surrender ourselves to God so that HE might do away with the power of the olf man through the power of the cross.

 

[Netchaplain]

Thanks Epikopos for letting me know what you meant by "our own". I believe we are on the same page that salvation is only through Christ. I also believe that since we cannot save ouselves, we cannot keep ourselves saved, that's our Father's part. (Jhn 10:29).

If someone claims to be Christian but really isn't, I believe they never were. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. . ." (1Jo 2:19.