The Virgin Birth

[soul man]

Well it is a paradoxical thing Scripture says. We are made a new creature in christ and the old man (the flesh or human nature) is rendered dead. Yet at the same time we still keep all of our old patterns of thinking until we learn the new form HIs Word to replace the old.

Ok thanks. I see flesh and nature as being separate. Flesh is giving a mind to body. No sin in spirit for believers.

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

he claimed to be saved?

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Given the endless repetition of 'enduring to the end' = salvation, I feel compelled to explain a number of details that are 'conveniently' omitted by the 'broken record' people -

In particular, Jesus is explaining the coming 7 year tribulation to the 12 disciples. It applies to all Israel. But were there Gentiles listening from some distance away? It's irrelevant. He talked of the 'abomination of desolation' as indicated by Daniel. While unimaginable in Daniels' or Jesus' day, today, a nuke here and a nuke there will immediately make the land barren and uninhabitable.

Note that Jesus told them when they see the signs He mentioned indicating its coming forthwith, He told them 'get out of town as fast as you can'. Don't go back to pick up any of your stuff, but get out NOW!. Might the air raid sirens be going off at that point? Unknown. How about those that are feeble, or don't have transportation, etc? Refer back to Exodus for the answer:

Exodus 19:3-4 (KJV)
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

No, God didn't supply an 'air force' of eagles to carry them out, but He made it 100% possible for them to get out of Egypt unscathed and at the same time, held the Egyptian army at bay before destroying them in the Red Sea. So there can be little doubt that a good number of Israelites will be safely transported to Petra (as is commonly believed by theologians). Exactly HOW will God do it? Your guess is as good as mine.

So now we get to those that survive 'until the end' -

Obviously, the remnant of Israel that escaped to Petra and provided for during the ensuing 7 years, have been physically saved from the enormous destruction that took place. But...just like when Moses led Israel out of Egypt, those that survived were not 100% faithful to God. That was proven by their making a golden calf and worshiping it. God therefore destroyed them. In Matthew 25, Jesus explained that after He comes to His glory and set up His Kingdom on earth, those that were 'saved' from all nations, not just Jews, will be judged...the sheep welcomed to the Kingdom and the goats to eternal doom.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This echoes what He told them in chapter 7 -

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Verse 22-23 above shows conclusively that 'good works' are NOT way to Heaven! Even those 'done in His name' don't count. The difference between salvation and non-salvation is faith. ALL the 'good works' I did before being saved 23 years ago was a complete waste of time, effort, and money. In short, God can never be put into a 'you owe me' situation by anyone or group of people! I didn't do them to 'win' favor with God. I was a 'good man', (a workaholic, too) and really didn't give much thought of the 'good things' I did back then. But since being saved, the increasing good works I've done have been for Him. Not me.

Thinking that salvation is of works these days contradicts Gods' Holy Word as written by Paul:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Denying that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and denying that it is FAITH, not WORKS that saves IS denying the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH of Gods' Word! Good luck on judgement day!

 

[theefaith]

Given the endless repetition of 'enduring to the end' = salvation, I feel compelled to explain a number of details that are 'conveniently' omitted by the 'broken record' people -

In particular, Jesus is explaining the coming 7 year tribulation to the 12 disciples. It applies to all Israel. But were there Gentiles listening from some distance away? It's irrelevant. He talked of the 'abomination of desolation' as indicated by Daniel. While unimaginable in Daniels' or Jesus' day, today, a nuke here and a nuke there will immediately make the land barren and uninhabitable.

Note that Jesus told them when they see the signs He mentioned indicating its coming forthwith, He told them 'get out of town as fast as you can'. Don't go back to pick up any of your stuff, but get out NOW!. Might the air raid sirens be going off at that point? Unknown. How about those that are feeble, or don't have transportation, etc? Refer back to Exodus for the answer:

Exodus 19:3-4 (KJV)
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

No, God didn't supply an 'air force' of eagles to carry them out, but He made it 100% possible for them to get out of Egypt unscathed and at the same time, held the Egyptian army at bay before destroying them in the Red Sea. So there can be little doubt that a good number of Israelites will be safely transported to Petra (as is commonly believed by theologians). Exactly HOW will God do it? Your guess is as good as mine.

So now we get to those that survive 'until the end' -

Obviously, the remnant of Israel that escaped to Petra and provided for during the ensuing 7 years, have been physically saved from the enormous destruction that took place. But...just like when Moses led Israel out of Egypt, those that survived were not 100% faithful to God. That was proven by their making a golden calf and worshiping it. God therefore destroyed them. In Matthew 25, Jesus explained that after He comes to His glory and set up His Kingdom on earth, those that were 'saved' from all nations, not just Jews, will be judged...the sheep welcomed to the Kingdom and the goats to eternal doom.

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This echoes what He told them in chapter 7 -

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Verse 22-23 above shows conclusively that 'good works' are NOT way to Heaven! Even those 'done in His name' don't count. The difference between salvation and non-salvation is faith. ALL the 'good works' I did before being saved 23 years ago was a complete waste of time, effort, and money. In short, God can never be put into a 'you owe me' situation by anyone or group of people! I didn't do them to 'win' favor with God. I was a 'good man', (a workaholic, too) and really didn't give much thought of the 'good things' I did back then. But since being saved, the increasing good works I've done have been for Him. Not me.

Thinking that salvation is of works these days contradicts Gods' Holy Word as written by Paul:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Denying that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and denying that it is FAITH, not WORKS that saves IS denying the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH of Gods' Word! Good luck on judgement day!

scripture is for all men

Eph 2 refers to baptism
As well as many others


Saved by grace with faith and works
Never faith alone!
1 cor 13:2 all faith avails nothing
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering

See below

 

[theefaith]

Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[theefaith]

1. 1 Corinthians 6:9
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall notinherit the kingdom of God? Be notdeceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
   
   
2. Galatians 5:21
   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shallnot inherit the kingdom of God.

Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Paul writing to adult Christians!

 

[theefaith]

grace and faith with good works supplies the defects of fallen human nature
And enables us to be holy and act righteous

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ok thanks. I see flesh and nature as being separate. Flesh is giving a mind to body. No sin in spirit for believers.

That is correct! Believers have dual natures battling for supremacy within. the old man, though rendered dead by God still fights for control of our soul and the new man being conformed into the image of Christ. IN the old man we can do nothing but sin, but in the new man we can do nothing but serve god. the old man cannot do righteousness and the new man cannot do evil. We choose to die to self-daily to live in the new man.