There Exists No Scripture or Witness Jesus' Mother Is Able To Help Anyone.

[Josh27]

1.) Jesus Himself at the Cana Wedding gave an inmmediate correction to her concern about wine by saying, "Woman, what have I do do with you? Mine hour is not yet come."

2.) Neither Jesus nor the Apostles cite any teaching, authority, or power from her.

3.) No place in Scripture shows any prayer for help being spoken to the departed authentic Forebearers of Faith such as Moses, Abraham, King David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Ruth, or the Apostles, let alone unto a woman such as Mary.

4.) It is the work of Satan to draw all people away from prayer to The Father in the name of Jesus, using false reasoning and spurious affection.

5.) Mary is never seen in Scripture appearing to anyone after her death.

6.) There is no feminine component within the Creation narrative, within Christ's work of Salvation upon mankind, or in the Godhead.

7.) Occult mythology is the source of the female aspect Mary worship as she is portrayed holding an infant. The name Tammuz is used.

8.) Jesus existed far before Mary was born. She did not create Him, enable Him, or authenticate His authority.

9.) No Scripture states Mary was "full of grace."

 

[Nancy]

1.) Jesus Himself at the Cana Wedding gave an inmmediate correction to her concern about wine by saying, "Woman, what have I do do with you? Mine hour is not yet come."

2.) Neither Jesus nor the Apostles cite any teaching, authority, or power from her.

3.) No place in Scripture shows any prayer for help being spoken to the departed authentic Forebearers of Faith such as Moses, Abraham, King David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Ruth, or the Apostles, let alone unto a woman such as Mary.

4.) It is the work of Satan to draw all people away from prayer to The Father in the name of Jesus, using false reasoning and spurious affection.

5.) Mary is never seen in Scripture appearing to anyone after her death.

6.) There is no feminine component within the Creation narrative, within Christ's work of Salvation upon mankind, or in the Godhead.

7.) Occult mythology is the source of the female aspect Mary worship as she is portrayed holding an infant. The name Tammuz is used.

8.) Jesus existed far before Mary was born. She did not create Him, enable Him, or authenticate His authority.

9.) No Scripture states Mary was "full of grace."

I agree with your intention here, totally but, there is a scripture that say's that she was full of grace, and that she is blessed among woman:

Luke 1:28
28 "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

 

[Josh27]

Apparently, the Bible you are speaking of has the added phrase "full of grace" in Luke 1:28, whereas the original manuscripts do not contain those words.

Traditions of men through religious activity are an affront to God, and always lead to error. It is a grievous sin to add the ideas of men to the text of God's Word.

 

[Mungo]

Apparently, the Bible you are speaking of has the added phrase "full of grace" in Luke 1:28, whereas the original manuscripts do not contain those words.

There are no original manuscripts and the Bible wasn't written in English.

 

[FHII]

I agree with your intention here, totally but, there is a scripture that say's that she was full of grace, and that she is blessed among woman:

Luke 1:28
28 "And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women."

Josh27 spome the truth, and I am happy you agree with him. Yes, Mary was blessed and full of grace, but so what? I too, am blessed and full of grace. So are you if you accept Jesus.

Mary is special because of what she was given, but not special above any other believer.

 

[kcnalp]

Was Paul full of grace? He wrote nearly half the NT. How many NT Books did Mary write?

 

[Mungo]

Was Paul full of grace? He wrote nearly half the NT. How many NT Books did Mary write?

Totally irrelevant.

 

[Mungo]

1.) Jesus Himself at the Cana Wedding gave an inmmediate correction to her concern about wine by saying, "Woman, what have I do do with you? Mine hour is not yet come."

No, he didn't correct her.
The Hebrew phrase "what have I to do with thee" was a sign of respect or deferment. Jesus was not opposing Mary, he complied with her request and she knew he would. “what have I to do with thee” was Jesus deferring to Mary who just told the servants Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it

Take other examples of this phrase, of unclean spirits deferring to Jesus:
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gerasenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? (Mt 8:27-28, Lk 8:28, Mk 5:7)

And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. (Mk 1:23-24, Lk 4:34)

3.) No place in Scripture shows any prayer for help being spoken to the departed authentic Forebearers of Faith such as Moses, Abraham, King David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Ruth, or the Apostles, let alone unto a woman such as Mary. [/quote]

Not true Jesus actually taught it.
“There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame......And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ (Lk 16:19-24 &27-28).
A dead man (the rich man) asked Abraham (a departed forebear of faith) to help him

 

[Mungo]

8.) Jesus existed far before Mary was born. She did not create Him, enable Him, or authenticate His authority

We are told (rightly) to have a personal relationship with Jesus. What an amazing personal and intimate relationship with Jesus must Mary have had.
She carried him in her womb for 9 months
She gave birth to him
She fed him at her breasts.
She changed his nappies (diapers)
She bathed him.
As he grew up she cooked his food
She washed his clothes
She cleaned his grazed knees
She made his bed.
She gave him uncountable hugs and kisses
She instigated his first great sign (miracle) at Cana
She was there at his death.

 

[Taken]

Apparently, the Bible you are speaking of has the added phrase "full of grace" in Luke 1:28, whereas the original manuscripts do not contain those words.

Traditions of men through religious activity are an affront to God, and always lead to error. It is a grievous sin to add the ideas of men to the text of God's Word.

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

The Only Scripture I see that says...
FULL OF GRACE....is; John 1:14, regarding Jesus.

John 1:
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Concering Mary...
Hail...a greeting,
(Nothing unusual or special)
Thou art highly favored....humm "why"?
(Scripture reveals)
The Lord is with thee...
(Scriptural history, the Lord is WITH, every believer)....Notice to us, Mary believed in God.)
Verified, Mary Believed in God.
Luke 1:
[46] And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
[47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary is blessed among women...
(True that, women share a bond of pregnancy and delivery of a child)

Highly favored...?
Luke 1:
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

What FAVOR did God FIND in Mary?
* Believed in God
* Jewish
* Virgin
* Espoused to a man of the House of David
Luke 1
[27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
* Joseph of the House of David married the virgin Mary...
* Resided In Nazareth, Galilee
* Required to register for Roman Census in Bethlehem, Judea

Mary was a found by God to be a Highly Favorable Candidate to Serve God to fulfill Prophecy...AND...Mary AGREED.
Luke 1
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Not a mystery.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Josh27]

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

The Only Scripture I see that says...
FULL OF GRACE....is; John 1:14, regarding Jesus.

John 1:
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Concering Mary...
Hail...a greeting,
(Nothing unusual or special)
Thou art highly favored....humm "why"?
(Scripture reveals)
The Lord is with thee...
(Scriptural history, the Lord is WITH, every believer)....Notice to us, Mary believed in God.)
Verified, Mary Believed in God.
Luke 1:
[46] And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
[47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Mary is blessed among women...
(True that, women share a bond of pregnancy and delivery of a child)

Highly favored...?
Luke 1:
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

What FAVOR did God FIND in Mary?
* Believed in God
* Jewish
* Virgin
* Espoused to a man of the House of David
Luke 1
[27] To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
* Joseph of the House of David married the virgin Mary...
* Resided In Nazareth, Galilee
* Required to register for Roman Census in Bethlehem, Judea

Mary was a found by God to be a Highly Favorable Candidate to Serve God to fulfill Prophecy...AND...Mary AGREED.
Luke 1
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Not a mystery.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, this does show how Mary was just another woman being used by God for a limited purpose.

Her purpose did not include leadership in the Church, special revelation after that from Gabriel, the teaching of anyone with wisdom or obedience, the material support of Jesus during His ministry, martyrdom for the Gospel, any kind of example of spirituality cited by NT writers, the speaking of Prophecy within the Church, any spiritual gifts, or any writing of Scripture.

 

[kcnalp]

Totally irrelevant.

How many Bible Books did Mary write? Don't know? I'll give you a clue. ZERO!

 

[Nancy]

Josh27 spome the truth, and I am happy you agree with him. Yes, Mary was blessed and full of grace, but so what? I too, am blessed and full of grace. So are you if you accept Jesus.

Mary is special because of what she was given, but not special above any other believer.

Amen, and 100% agreed here bro!

 

[Nancy]

Mary was blessed "among" women, not "above" women. She was a willing and obedient vessel through God. She needed a savior just like all "human beings" do.

Abraham was also a willing and obedient vessel used of God and, he too looked forward towards, believing in the coming Messiah.

 

[Taken]

WHY was Mary "found" "highly favorable"...?

Because she was naturally born without sin?
Uh, no. Nothing in Scripture teaches Mary was excluded from being naturally born in sin.

The Highlight...
IS WHO she was to marry...
(And in Jewish Tradition:
A BONDED agreement was established between the Brides father and the Groom.
Modernly, we call that agreement, a proposal of marriage, a PROMISED acceptance, and thereafter called an engagement.
In Jewish Tradition, a BREAKING of the PROMISE to Wed, required a Divorce, which would Disolve the PROMISE to meet and "Wed in the House" and in the presence of the Grooms father.
According to Jewish Tradition:
The Bride Prepares Herself and Waits for her Groom to "signal" her, he is about to arrive at "her fathers house", to take her to the Grooms father house, to be Wed.
The Grooms "signal" is sounded,
The Readied VAILED Bride, goes to her Groom.
The FEAST is prepared at the Grooms fathers house.
The GUESTS (are also "signaled", called, notified, to come to the Wedding Feast).
....Some guests agree to come...some do not.
....Some Not invited guests, attempt to come, but are sent away.

POINT being....the JOINING in marriage...
A man and a woman...is they Become ONE FLESH.
The Grooms father, becomes in Wed-LOCK, the Brides Father.
.... The Grooms father, in Joseph's case, IS OF the HOUSE OF DAVID.
... The Signifiance IS...God established an "everlasting Throne" for the House of David, (David himself having been seated on THAT throne, and can ONLY be thereafter LAWFULLY occupied, by a "LAWFUL descendent" of king David).
JESUS, being revealed, as a descendent of The HOUSE of David, has FULFILLED, the Lawful requirement, to be seat ON that established "everlasting throne". (Pss 89:37)

Virgin. A Womb not defiled by a mans member or seed. Revealing, an undefiled womb forthwhich suitable for the Body God prepared to be revealed coming forth from.

Scripture parallels...and reveals;
Who the Groom is, Who the Bride is, How she is Prepared, How she is Signaled, How she is taken to the fathers house, Who the guests are, the Feast, (which traditionally lasted days) the unveiling Wedding ceremony, the home (kingdom) the Groom has prepared....

Praise and Glory to God.
His WAYS are perfect.
He Perfects us IN Him.

Taken

 

[kcnalp]

Mary was just a woman whom God CHOSE. God has CHOSEN many. Sinless Mary and purgatory are totally unBiblical!

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (NKJV)
13 God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

 

[Mungo]

How many Bible Books did Mary write? Don't know? I'll give you a clue. ZERO!

How many Bible Books did Jesus write?
I'll give you a clue. ZERO!

 

[kcnalp]

How many Bible Books did Jesus write?
I'll give you a clue. ZERO!

But Jesus is the Author!

 

[Mungo]

But Jesus is the Author!

Really?
Where did you get that idea from?

 

[Mungo]

Mary was blessed "among" women, not "above" women. She was a willing and obedient vessel through God. She needed a savior just like all "human beings" do.

Abraham was also a willing and obedient vessel used of God and, he too looked forward towards, believing in the coming Messiah.

"To say that Mary, who bore the Son of God in her womb, is not special, is like saying the Ark of the Covenant was just another box. Oh sure, it carried the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s staff, and the Bread of the Presence, but so what? No big deal! Just another box. Nowhere does Scripture say the Ark of the Covenant was blessed “ABOVE” other boxes. Mary carried the Word of God in flesh, not in stone. Mary carried the eternal High Priest (Heb 4:14) Himself, not just the high priest’s staff. Mary carried the living Bread that has come down from Heaven (John 6:41), the bread which if you eat of it you will live forever (John 6:51), not just the bread that the Hebrews scooped up off the ground and ate and yet still died (John 6:49). So, if Mary isn’t more blessed than any other woman, then the Ark of the Covenant is just another box.

Oh, and then there’s the whole being impregnated by the Holy Spirit thing. That’s happened to lots of women, right? I mean, nothing special about that, is there? Nope…happens all the time. Think about this: Mary is the child of God the Father, she is the mother of God the Son, and she is the spouse of God the Holy Spirit – after all, the Holy Spirit impregnated her, so there has to be a marital relationship there, or that would mean Jesus was born out of wedlock. (They had a name for such children, and I don’t think anyone would want to apply that name to Jesus.) Can anyone else in the history of the world – past, present, or future – ever claim to have the same relationship with all three persons of the Trinity? Nah, God didn’t elevate Mary, “not even a little bit.”

Now, this whole thing about Mary being blessed “AMONG” women but not “above” women. Well, as my friend Bugs would say, “What a maroon.” Really?! I mean, “REALLY!?” Mary goes to visit her cousin El izabeth, and what happens that points to the absolute ordinariness of Mary? Well, first, Elizabeth’s baby, John the Baptist, leaps in his mother’s womb when what happens? When Elizabeth hears Mary’s voice. Has any similar occurrence ever been recorded in the Bible? Nope. So, that means the Word of God is telling us that Mary is quite ordinary, right?

Then, what happens next to point to Mary’s ordinariness? Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, exclaims with a loud cry, “Hey, you’re no more special than anyone else,” (Luke 1:42). At least, that is this person’s interpretation of what Elizabeth had to say. “Blessed are you among women,” actually means, “You’re nothing special among women.” Why would Elizabeth need to be filled with the Holy Spirit to tell Mary that she’s no different than anyone else? And why would Elizabeth have to exclaim this with a “loud cry?” Was that so the neighbors could all hear so that Mary wouldn’t get a big head or something?

According to this person, what’s going on in Luke, chapter 1, is that God sends an angel to Mary to tell her that she’s no different from anyone else, but, oh, by the way, Mary, you’re going to bear the Son of God in your womb. Then the Holy Spirit inspires Elizabeth to tell Mary she’s no different than anyone else. Yeah, it all makes sense to me now.


Two more things from Luke 1: 1) Why, if Mary is no one all that special, does Elizabeth say, “And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” (Lk 1:43). Elizabeth is saying that Mary, the mother of Elizabeth’s Lord, coming to visit her is apparently quite the honor. But why, if Mary is nothing special? 2) Mary says that “all generations will call me blessed.” Is there any other person that the Bible speaks of who will be called “blessed” for “all generations”? Nope. Yep, God nowhere elevates Mary, “not even a little bit.”
John Martignoni (Bible Christian Society)