Is that what this says?....
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
These three are one
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For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
OzSpen
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- Mar 30, 2015
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Truther,
Don't you want to take the time to do the careful exegesis of these 2 verses?
Oz
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, it was kind of the rage in the late 70's, heck at that time, maybe still, they wanted you to have a license for them. They were quite expensive back then, 23 channels. I wanted a Cobra, but bought a cheap one. Had it for years though, up to a few years ago when I decided to throw it away. I have an old Montgomery Wards in my RV and it works well. And I bought a handheld a couple of yrs back for our farm work, when driving the pickup that don't have one.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Simply agreeing with what you said Phil, do you now think He is 3 persons, or still do not believe He is?
Like this verse that Jesus was speaking in?...
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Or this verse?....
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
I don't think we need more explanation, but we need to accept what we read and end our anti scripture presuppositions.
tigger 2
Well-Known Member
................................................
I can prove that John 1:1c does not mean that the Word was God. But it takes a little effort to understand the grammar John chose to use, so, of course, no trinitarian will make the effort.
My first personal (and the lengthiest) study is Search For Bible Truths: The "Definite" John 1:1
My next attempt to shorten it and still retain the important facts was Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity
And finally I broke it up into 7 (or 6) lessons Examining the Trinity: John 1:1c Primer - For Grammatical Rules That Supposedly "Prove" the Trinity
Is there anyone sincere enough to discuss one of these studies (step by step) with me?
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Philip James
Well-Known Member
?? I have always believed He is 3 persons.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
God,
Forever and ever
It means God's spoken word was Him.
Just like our spoken word is us and proceeds from us.
It is so much part of us that it will justify or condemn us.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I would imagine you keep track of all the places you speak to. I think that is a fantastic hobby. I am rather pleased by this site here as well, we speak to many people from all over the world here too. Is your unit in your home only, or do you have one in your vehicle. We have a couple of ham operators in their vehicles running around town. Don't see them as much anymore, but I don't get around as much either as I used to.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
What does the Bible teach Phil? The Bible does refer to the Father, who is God and His name is Jehovah. It teaches God has a son, who is called Jesus, and the Bible speaks about Holy Spirit as well, it is not named and it is not a being, but it is referred to as a helper, and was sent to Jesus' disciples first on Pentecost of 33 CE and that event is recorded for us in Acts chapter 2, the birth of the Christian congregation. Can you think of any other ways God uses His Holy Spirit Phil?
I have a setup in my home office, one in my garage and one in my truck. I even keep an emergency setup in the trunk of my wife's car.
I had to stop buying stuff though..there is only one of me. LOL
Not so. You are clearly a TRINITY ...
Truther the husband
Truther the father
Truther the son
Question: is the name of your grandson in the avatar, "Son"?
I agree and have received witness that God the Father is a person and I know from scripture that Jesus Christ is a person. Yet they are one somehow as the scriptures point out.
The following are three different accounts of the very same subject, which shows that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost but are not three persons...
Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
[13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
I'm not buying that idea as I've seen the Holy Spirit and saw Jesus' spirit within him. They are separate persons. Jesus was made fully man to be the sacrificial lamb. He suffered all things as men suffer. The scriptures teach us this. They are one in will and purpose. Both God the Father and Jesus the Christ are Holy.
Jesus was the last man Adam. That means he was created as a man to do what Adam could not. His spirit already existed but his body did not. We also have spirits that existed before this earth, created spiritually before physically. There are references that say Jesus spirit is eternal and not created like ours.
John 14:11-21
John 1:1
That same God which spoke to Moses through a burning bush, overshadowed Mary and she conceived a seed. That one spirit simultaneously inhabits that seed AND remains in heaven (omnipresent). When Mary gives birth, we now have SPIRIT become FLESH. That bouncing baby boy is the ALMIGHTY manifest in the flesh. That is how, and why Jesus can say, "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." ... and ... "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
Compare the following references:
The Lord God is the Creator. Isaiah 42:5.
The Lord Jesus is the Creator. John 1:3-10.
The Lord God said, "I am He." Isaiah 43:10.
The Lord Jesus said, "I am He." John 8:24.
The Lord God is the only Saviour. Isaiah 43:10-11.
The Lord Jesus is the Saviour. Titus 1:4.
The Lord God shall reign forever. Psalms 146:10.
The Lord Jesus reign forever. Luke 1:33.
The Lord God is the King of Israel. Isaiah 43:15.
The Lord Jesus is the King of Israel. Matthew 27:37.
The Lord God is the First and the Last. Isaiah 44:6.
The Lord Jesus is the First and the Last. Revelation 1:8.
Jesus said...
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Notice how the deniers that Jesus Christ is God The Son steer clear of Scripture like the following...
John 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.
KJV
John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things.
KJV
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV
Those are all passages where Lord Jesus is referring to Himself as God.
Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
KJV
The 'Prince of Peace' is one of Lord Jesus' many titles. But notice those "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father" are also His titles. That Isaiah 9:6 verse is very easy to identify with Lord Jesus Christ, simply because only Jesus of Nazareth was born of a virgin, which the previous Isaiah 7:14 verse gave as a sign, and further His name being "Immanuel", which Matthew 1:23 defines as "God with us".
So we don't have to be concerned with those unbelievers who strain at a gnat with socialist-Marxist aims against The Word of God. That Jesus Christ is God is well testified of in The Word of God, and those in Christ can rely on that.
John 8:24
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins.
KJV
John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things.
KJV
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV
Those are all passages where Lord Jesus is referring to Himself as God.
Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
KJV
The 'Prince of Peace' is one of Lord Jesus' many titles. But notice those "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father" are also His titles. That Isaiah 9:6 verse is very easy to identify with Lord Jesus Christ, simply because only Jesus of Nazareth was born of a virgin, which the previous Isaiah 7:14 verse gave as a sign, and further His name being "Immanuel", which Matthew 1:23 defines as "God with us".
So we don't have to be concerned with those unbelievers who strain at a gnat with socialist-Marxist aims against The Word of God. That Jesus Christ is God is well testified of in The Word of God, and those in Christ can rely on that.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Hi devin,
The clincher for me is that God doesnt change.. So must be ever Father, and ever Son. Thus the Word (Jesus} is eternally begotton by the Father.
Its so difficult for us who whole frame of reference is in time, to grasp and/or speak about eternal realitiies.
Indeed how could we do anything but speculate about our Creator unless He has reveled Himself to us?
Pax et Bonum
I look at it as though time is a learning field for us. That we get to make choices and learn from them as time passes by. Something not necessary for God. Perhaps he is outside of time also.
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