Thinking Errors

[religusnut]

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. That is why you should cheat on your taxes.

Last time I checked lying was a sin. In order to cheat on your taxes you have to lie to somebody.

 

[242006]

here is another thinking error - some sins are worse than others....

According to your logic, eating pork is equal to murder.

 

[veteran]

This should be a good discussion :)

Not an error in thought. Doctrine involves principles of one's belief, a foundation. The Bible gives examples and teachings of the correct Doctrine unto Salvation, as written by God through His holy prophets and Apostles. Knowledge is not a negative word as some imply. Knowledge leads to understanding, and then by understanding leads to Faith and good works.


I agree that knowledge is not bad - it is simply not enough. Our heart and mind need to be united in Christ. Doctrine in itself does not save - nor will God give us a test on doctrine before we can enter heaven. Only God's Grace saves.

Evidently, we don't agree on the meaning of the world knowledge. I'm not referring to the idea academics, but to the idea understanding truth, which is always a product of our mind and heart at work.

Not an error in thinking. The type of thoughts and feelings (emotions) one choses to entertain can and will influence their works and in what they chose to believe. This principle is often associated with how one's heart is in many Bible examples. As our Lord Jesus showed, where a man's heart is, that's where his treasure will be.

Thoughts and feeling may influence us, but they will not damn us. [font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8:39&version=NIV"]Romans 8:39[/url] neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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I disagree with your first statement. A person with strong sexual emotions can be lead to abuse if the thoughts or emotions are not checked and brought under control. Likewise with thoughts that produce anger, envy, jealousy, etc. This is a very basic understanding. Those who come to Christ are shown how to replace evil thoughts that can cause wrong action. I already covered how dangerous it can be with following idealism that is against God and His Word.

Not an error in thinking. Anyone believing on Christ Jesus must first be convinced of the Truth that He died on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe. One must be convinced of the witness of His Apostles that He died on the cross and rose the third day. That conviction is of the heart and mind of the believer. So conviction and conversion go hand in hand.

The demons are convinced and they shutter. Conversion requires a heart change as well as knowledge. In fact, God is more interested in the heart than He is in the mind.

By preaching and 'hearing' The Gospel is how one comes to believe and be saved by Christ. By hearing is meant with understanding. And the heart and mind work together per God's Word (let us reason together, God says in Isaiah 1). The demons know Christ is The Saviour, but not their saviour.

The word 'argue' is not a negative term in itself. It's a word to show what one believes. Apostle Paul argued with the non-believers at Mars Hill, even quoting principles of their own philosophers to present the 'argument' of Who God really is. Presenting such arguments in order to bring the unsaved to Christ is just and necessary. When Elijah gave a challenge to the false prophets of Baal to find out who The God really is, he was posing an argument to them. This is why God's Word is for correction and reproof also to reveal the difference between righteousness and wickedness.

Once again, convincing someone that Jesus died on the Cross for their sins is not enough - conversion requires a heart change - also trying to convince someone of the truth invites pride and stubbornness to enter, which can impede conversion. I agree that convincing the mind is important, but it is not necessarily the first step.

Convince one that Christ died on the cross, and they will be faced with the truth. It's then up to the person and God whether they believe or not. To convince, The Gospel is preached, and it's as simple as that. Offering The Gospel is not forcing. Commanding that one must believe under duress, which other religions do, is forcing.

Not an error in thinking. Witnessing The Gospel of Jesus Christ IS witnessing Doctrine, specifically the Doctrine of Salvation through Jesus Christ. It IS an act of love to do that with the unbeliever.

I disagree with this point the most, so far. Witnessing Christ is not done in words - words and doctrine may explain our behavior, but love is the Good News we are sharing.

Maybe you should consider what Paul said then...

Rom 10:14-17
14 How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(KJV)

Preaching the Word of God is an act of love, and by the Word of God comes hearing (understanding), which then comes Faith, usually in that order.

All peoples can be arrogant at times, for that's about emotions. But many mistake the boldness of Christian witnesses in preaching Christ's Salvation and Biblical Truth for arrogance, especially when God's Word convicts a sinner in giving a rebuke.

There is no room for arrogance in the witnessing process - zero. As far as being 'bold' I think it is a nice way of saying arrogant. I've never ever seen boldness convert anyone's heart and mind - I have seen it harden hearts.

Then you must see apostle Paul as being very arrogant, since he went right amongst the deceived in boldness, and preached The Gospel, well knowing that it would anger some. If God calls someone to preach, they are to be prepared to go wherever He sends them, even right amongst His enemies if needs be. If that hardens the hearts of some, like it did with the Pharisees and Sadduccees, then that's just the way it is. Let the chips fall where they may. God's Word will go forth as He deems, and not acccording to requirements unbelievers in this world might try to create against it going forth.

But the idea you seem to have, is that it is wrong to preach God's Word in any place where it might offend some. That's an anti-evangelism message, and definitely not an idea from God's Word.

Not an error in thinking, for both are true. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is offensive to the majority of those who refuse Christ Jesus and instead follow the ways of this world. Christ never claimed to bring peace within this present world, but instead a sword. Likewise, The Gospel is watered down by some who are like a reed shaking in the wind.

It does not have to be offensive to be truth. In fact, in this postmodern world, the gospel is often seen as simply one of the many religions in the marketplace - rarely is it seen as offensive unless it is promoted by an arrogant witness. Which brings up my point, we may be tempted to try and be arrogant in our witness to place an exclamation point on the message, but there is no need to do so. Many of the people who heard Christ's message, which was not presented in an arrogant manner were converted - it was the proud people that heard the message that rejected it.

You obviously live in a much different world than most of us live in then (and I live in the so-called Bible Belt). There's not any place where God's Word is preached or taught that it does not offend some, even within the Churches it happens with some who don't want to hear parts of God's Word that might convict them of a sin. They will then leave and seek another Church with a more watered-down preaching. And Christianity is under major attack in the U.S., bombarded daily by pagans and atheists and unbelieving Jews, leftist-socialists, communists, homosexuals, and any other group of radicals that hate being convicted of their sin. Even unbelievers in the Bible Belt mock Christians. So it doesn't matter how hard one tries to be nice and meek in preaching The Gospel around such groups, some are offended simply by a Christian presence. John the Baptist lost his head for rebuking Herod's illicit marriage. Christ nowhere condemned John for that. Like Christ said in Matt.10, He didn't come to bring peace, but a sword of division. And that dividing line between His servants and the wicked is going to continue during this world. Only Christ's return will end it. If you're a Christian, bring up that fact among orthodox Jews and see how they like it.

How is it then, that Christians are so hated even by people they've never even met? It's because they hated Christ Jesus first.

Sometimes Christians are critizied simply because they believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and especially because of their behaviour when such behaviour is in preaching Christ crucified. It would be silly to deny that, especially since there are many Bible witnesses to that fact.

Of course some Christians are criticized because of the message - most Christians exploited by the media are criticized because they are either rude or have poor social skills.

I have seen more rudeness coming from Left-wing socialists than any other one group combined. You might call that bias, but I'm no more biased than you are against the religious right.

Either The Bible is literally True, or it is not the Truth. Can't be both ways. Even when God's Word uses expressions, allegory, and metaphor or parable, those are simply methods to show literal Truths.

Allegories, metaphors, and parables are not literal truth. Everything in the Bible is valuable, but not all of it is historic or scientifically true.

Allegories, metaphors, and parables are TOOLS God's Word uses to teach literal truths. So why the argument over whether or not those tools are truth? All of God's Word is about literal truth. And it includes MUCH real history, and science.

Not an error in thinking. Once again, if The Bible is not literal Truth, then what is it? It is certainly not just a book of poetry, nor man's philosophy. It is God's Letter to us as given through His holy prophets and Apostles. It is not of man, but divinely given through man by The Holy Spirit.

Your requirement for the Bible to be literally true says more about your post-enlightenment, western mindset than your Christianity. Literal truth from the Bible has only been expected from Christians since the fundamentalist movement at the turn of the last century. Before the 20th century, only deists like Thomas Jefferson who wrote his own "miracle free" version of the NT, required a literal version of the Bible and before that no one gave much thought to what really happened and simply what God said. Christianity was not considered using reason or science like it is today.

Your weak suggestion that The Bible is something other... than about literal truth exposes your Leftist influence that is designed to create doubt, in order to lead to idealisms which conflict with Bible Truth.

You didn't live in the those days, so you really don't know what you speak of with how they thought and felt about The Bible. Thomas Jefferson was a statesman, not a prophet sent from God, nor an Apostle of Christ.

The OT is about history to include examples of man's behaviour in relationship with God, and against God when in rebellion. It is a lesson guide for right action and thinking, where those in Faith in OT times should be seen as setting good examples for us (Hebrews 11). There's good examples to follow, and examples of what NOT to follow. But they were not just stories. The OT events actually happenned.

Nothing wrong with stories - everything in the Bible is supposed to be there and valuable. Mostly, it is an account of how people failed to react well to God's omnipotence. Although, I should say that I believe the historical parts of the OT and NT really happened.

God's Word is not just a history book, nor a book of fictional stories, nor is it dead history. God's Word is the Living Word. Many things God gave to the OT prophets to write down are coming true today, and will continue all the way to God's eternity. So it ignorance to treat it like any other book of man, when it is not by man, but through man by The Holy Spirit.

Not really an error in thinking. For IF all men repented today and came to The Father through The Son, leaving sin, His wrath would not come. But through His Word we already know not everyone is going to repent, and thus His hand is still stretched out in preparation to bring His wrath.

Well, if humans did repent, Revelation would be a lie. We cannot change what is going to happen and trying to do so is like Peter trying to get Christ to not go to the Cross.

Finally, something we agree on.

God hates what the unjust do, as we should also. Showing discipline upon His enemies is not an act of hate.

Why should His enemies be disciplined? If they have free will and are destined for eternity in Hell, why are they not allowed to convict themselves while they are on Earth?

They do convict themselves by their deeds. If you'd study the OT more, you'd discover how even the leaders of kingdoms that worked against God and His people still understood the need for law in order to support peace and prosperity under their reign. Even most wicked rulers understand that principle of only going so far, otherwise their own would soon overthrow their reign. And in some cases per the OT, some of the wicked rulers did go too far in wickedness, and God brought a judgment upon them to remove them. Nebuchadnezzzar learned this the hard way, that God is in control and He is The One Who places people in power (Daniel 4). With God doing that disciplining, He sometimes used His chosen, and at other times other unbelieving nations.

So your real question is pointing to God with why should His enemies be disciplined. Why don't you ask Him.

Could be seen as an error of thinking, but He did die on the cross for His elect that were chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph.2). He died on the cross for all that would believe too. But not all will believe on Him.

According to John 3:16, Jesus died for the whole world.

You mean Universalism, the idea that all people will be saved, even without having accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour? No, such an idea is not written in God's Word. That's man's ideas of wishful thinking. And a one-verse-charlie quote won't prove it either.

NOT an error in thinking. Even allowing the open practice of a sin IS condoning the sin (Judges 19). This is especially so within Christ's Body, even while the unbelievers outside His Church are doing all sorts of abominations. There is to be a line of separation between His Church and this world involving sin. This is why Apostle Paul rebuked those in the Church for sin, as Christ did also with five Churches in Asia (Rev.2 & 3).

The entire chapter of Judges is horrific - everyone in the story sinned except the virgin daughter. The point of that story is that we are all sinners and need to be redeemed. God gave us free will - the freedom to accept His will for our lives and eternity and the freedom to reject it. The United States is a country of people with different religious and secular beliefs. The US allows a sex industry, Hollywood, alcohol and all kinds of vices as long as it can make money on the vices they are legal. Why do you feel that it is the right of Christians to curb the free will of nonbelievers and US law?

The real point of that Judges 19 story, is how the majority of the REST of Israel had closed their eyes to the wickedness of the sons of Belial, and were allowing the abominations to continue. And eventually, the rest of the tribes of Israel woke out of their complacency and took action, and practically wiped out the tribe of Benjamin, for which they were very sad.

You've got it wrong about U.S. law, for it's about "We the people..." remember? WE decide what the laws of our nation are. It's up to the people to make changes when unjust laws are passed. It might take time, but that is still done today in the U.S. Because Christ's enemies in the U.S. know this, they continually seek to keep "We the people..." divided and fighting amongst ourselves. We're in a time under Christ's Grace, so many are being allowed to run amuck if they want to, and God will allow them since those usually are people that won't listen to Him.

I think I recall on another post where you admonished the OP for something he/she posted, and said something like there's children that come here to this forum, and such material was not appropriate. That's WHY those in Christ have the right to curb wickedness. It is often for the sake of our own children, for what good parent doesn't care what their child is exposed to?

That is an error in thinking. Adam and Eve disobeyed God's commandment is why they were expelled.

A&E were kicked out because they were unrepentant.

They were booted from God's Presence because they sinned, for sin is the transgression of the law, God's laws. His commandments is His law. Someone without His commandments are thus 'lawless'.

 

[Templar81]

Templar81, on 03 November 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. That is why you should cheat on your taxes.


Last time I checked lying was a sin. In order to cheat on your taxes you have to lie to somebody.

That was a Type - O. You should not cheat on your taxes because your taxes do not belong to you they belong to Ceasar.

SORRY ABOUT THE TYPE -O BUT YOU SHOULD AHVE NOTICED THAT I DID CORRECT IT EARLIER IN THE THREAD.

 

[aspen]

Evidently, we don't agree on the meaning of the world knowledge. I'm not referring to the idea academics, but to the idea understanding truth, which is always a product of our mind and heart at work.


[/font]
I disagree with your first statement. A person with strong sexual emotions can be lead to abuse if the thoughts or emotions are not checked and brought under control. Likewise with thoughts that produce anger, envy, jealousy, etc. This is a very basic understanding. Those who come to Christ are shown how to replace evil thoughts that can cause wrong action. I already covered how dangerous it can be with following idealism that is against God and His Word.
[/size]


By preaching and 'hearing' The Gospel is how one comes to believe and be saved by Christ. By hearing is meant with understanding. And the heart and mind work together per God's Word (let us reason together, God says in Isaiah 1). The demons know Christ is The Saviour, but not their saviour.



Convince one that Christ died on the cross, and they will be faced with the truth. It's then up to the person and God whether they believe or not. To convince, The Gospel is preached, and it's as simple as that. Offering The Gospel is not forcing. Commanding that one must believe under duress, which other religions do, is forcing.



Maybe you should consider what Paul said then...

Rom 10:14-17
14 How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(KJV)

Preaching the Word of God is an act of love, and by the Word of God comes hearing (understanding), which then comes Faith, usually in that order.




Then you must see apostle Paul as being very arrogant, since he went right amongst the deceived in boldness, and preached The Gospel, well knowing that it would anger some. If God calls someone to preach, they are to be prepared to go wherever He sends them, even right amongst His enemies if needs be. If that hardens the hearts of some, like it did with the Pharisees and Sadduccees, then that's just the way it is. Let the chips fall where they may. God's Word will go forth as He deems, and not acccording to requirements unbelievers in this world might try to create against it going forth.

But the idea you seem to have, is that it is wrong to preach God's Word in any place where it might offend some. That's an anti-evangelism message, and definitely not an idea from God's Word.




You obviously live in a much different world than most of us live in then (and I live in the so-called Bible Belt). There's not any place where God's Word is preached or taught that it does not offend some, even within the Churches it happens with some who don't want to hear parts of God's Word that might convict them of a sin. They will then leave and seek another Church with a more watered-down preaching. And Christianity is under major attack in the U.S., bombarded daily by pagans and atheists and unbelieving Jews, leftist-socialists, communists, homosexuals, and any other group of radicals that hate being convicted of their sin. Even unbelievers in the Bible Belt mock Christians. So it doesn't matter how hard one tries to be nice and meek in preaching The Gospel around such groups, some are offended simply by a Christian presence. John the Baptist lost his head for rebuking Herod's illicit marriage. Christ nowhere condemned John for that. Like Christ said in Matt.10, He didn't come to bring peace, but a sword of division. And that dividing line between His servants and the wicked is going to continue during this world. Only Christ's return will end it. If you're a Christian, bring up that fact among orthodox Jews and see how they like it.

How is it then, that Christians are so hated even by people they've never even met? It's because they hated Christ Jesus first.




I have seen more rudeness coming from Left-wing socialists than any other one group combined. You might call that bias, but I'm no more biased than you are against the religious right.




Allegories, metaphors, and parables are TOOLS God's Word uses to teach literal truths. So why the argument over whether or not those tools are truth? All of God's Word is about literal truth. And it includes MUCH real history, and science.




Your weak suggestion that The Bible is something other... than about literal truth exposes your Leftist influence that is designed to create doubt, in order to lead to idealisms which conflict with Bible Truth.

You didn't live in the those days, so you really don't know what you speak of with how they thought and felt about The Bible. Thomas Jefferson was a statesman, not a prophet sent from God, nor an Apostle of Christ.




God's Word is not just a history book, nor a book of fictional stories, nor is it dead history. God's Word is the Living Word. Many things God gave to the OT prophets to write down are coming true today, and will continue all the way to God's eternity. So it ignorance to treat it like any other book of man, when it is not by man, but through man by The Holy Spirit.



Finally, something we agree on.



They do convict themselves by their deeds. If you'd study the OT more, you'd discover how even the leaders of kingdoms that worked against God and His people still understood the need for law in order to support peace and prosperity under their reign. Even most wicked rulers understand that principle of only going so far, otherwise their own would soon overthrow their reign. And in some cases per the OT, some of the wicked rulers did go too far in wickedness, and God brought a judgment upon them to remove them. Nebuchadnezzzar learned this the hard way, that God is in control and He is The One Who places people in power (Daniel 4). With God doing that disciplining, He sometimes used His chosen, and at other times other unbelieving nations.

So your real question is pointing to God with why should His enemies be disciplined. Why don't you ask Him.




You mean Universalism, the idea that all people will be saved, even without having accept Christ Jesus as their Saviour? No, such an idea is not written in God's Word. That's man's ideas of wishful thinking. And a one-verse-charlie quote won't prove it either.




The real point of that Judges 19 story, is how the majority of the REST of Israel had closed their eyes to the wickedness of the sons of Belial, and were allowing the abominations to continue. And eventually, the rest of the tribes of Israel woke out of their complacency and took action, and practically wiped out the tribe of Benjamin, for which they were very sad.

You've got it wrong about U.S. law, for it's about "We the people..." remember? WE decide what the laws of our nation are. It's up to the people to make changes when unjust laws are passed. It might take time, but that is still done today in the U.S. Because Christ's enemies in the U.S. know this, they continually seek to keep "We the people..." divided and fighting amongst ourselves. We're in a time under Christ's Grace, so many are being allowed to run amuck if they want to, and God will allow them since those usually are people that won't listen to Him.

I think I recall on another post where you admonished the OP for something he/she posted, and said something like there's children that come here to this forum, and such material was not appropriate. That's WHY those in Christ have the right to curb wickedness. It is often for the sake of our own children, for what good parent doesn't care what their child is exposed to?




They were booted from God's Presence because they sinned, for sin is the transgression of the law, God's laws. His commandments is His law. Someone without His commandments are thus 'lawless'.

I am not a Universalist.