This is meat if you can bear it?

[David H.]

Before I start this, I would like to thank @VictoryinJesus for asking the right questions and inspiring this Post. Her comment is number 514 on this page which you can link to in order to read this. "Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....? | Page 26 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

Her first question was:
could perfected in ‘his love is perfected in us’…be the same as edified? ‘his love is edified in us’. Colossians 3:12-14.

The simple answer is yes, and this describes the Journey we all are on as we mature in Christ, to perfect love, which also mirrors Peter's path to agape love in 2 Peter 1:5-10. I have called this the path to Sainthood, which all believers are on and as we Grow in these Spiritual virtues We become more like Christ.

It is the second part of this question that inspired me.
She wrote:
"revisiting what a tree brings forth …what is brought out, what is brought forward in …can a corrupt tree bring forth praise and repentance unto God? Or this kind only goes out but by much prayer and fasting? Or what is brought forth in 1 Corinthians 14:23-26 and “thus the secrets of his heart is made manifest” and “praise unto God” 1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring (forth?)to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

I Have waited for years to hear this response and it makes the Spirit in me leap for Joy. It is when we understand that we are all on different parts of this journey and one may appear to be against what another is preaching That we finally have that Love perfected in us. So for example fundamentalist will be concerned with Order in the church (1 Corinthians 11) while a Charismatic with Gifts of the Spirit and the "giving control" to the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12), and both may seem opposite in their approach, But they are still at Work for the LORD in what they do even in "condemning" the other.

Ironically, (For those with ears to hear) It is no accident that these two chapters are followed by 1 Corinthians 13, The Love chapter, and then By 1 Corinthians 14, What I call the "Love and Truth" chapter that she alludes to in her comment. It is this Discerning of Spirits that the final outpouring of the Spirit will manifest in the church, which will in turn bring about the Unity of the Spirit, in the bond of peace.

You see all the animosity and division and denominationalism was meant to be there in order to led us to perfect love (Agape)... There are those who have walked this journey before often being loners and outcasts in the church, called to walk this journey to completion while the rest of the Body languished in division, and suckling on the milk and teachings of men, Often times being persecuted by their brothers and sisters in Christ. But God Knows the heart and the wheat and tares must grow together Until the Lord comes (1 Corinthians 4:5) when he will expose the wicked and the tares and intentions of the heart, and send his angels to separate them accordingly, to either reward or punishment.

Thank You @VictoryinJesus and I hope you can understand what I am saying here.... We are so very close to these times being fulfilled, and the Church becoming the Saints of the age to come.... (Hebrews 12:1-3) Read these verses with this in mind.

God Bless

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@David H. Thank you for exploring the questions asked and for taking the time to reply in such great detail.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Before I start this, I would like to thank @VictoryinJesus for asking the right questions and inspiring this Post. Her comment is number 514 on this page which you can link to in order to read this. "Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....? | Page 26 | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

Her first question was:
could perfected in ‘his love is perfected in us’…be the same as edified? ‘his love is edified in us’. Colossians 3:12-14.

The simple answer is yes, and this describes the Journey we all are on as we mature in Christ, to perfect love, which also mirrors Peter's path to agape love in 2 Peter 1:5-10. I have called this the path to Sainthood, which all believers are on and as we Grow in these Spiritual virtues We become more like Christ.

It is the second part of this question that inspired me.
She wrote:
"revisiting what a tree brings forth …what is brought out, what is brought forward in …can a corrupt tree bring forth praise and repentance unto God? Or this kind only goes out but by much prayer and fasting? Or what is brought forth in 1 Corinthians 14:23-26 and “thus the secrets of his heart is made manifest” and “praise unto God” 1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring (forth?)to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

I Have waited for years to hear this response and it makes the Spirit in me leap for Joy. It is when we understand that we are all on different parts of this journey and one may appear to be against what another is preaching That we finally have that Love perfected in us. So for example fundamentalist will be concerned with Order in the church (1 Corinthians 11) while a Charismatic with Gifts of the Spirit and the "giving control" to the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12), and both may seem opposite in their approach, But they are still at Work for the LORD in what they do even in "condemning" the other.

Ironically, (For those with ears to hear) It is no accident that these two chapters are followed by 1 Corinthians 13, The Love chapter, and then By 1 Corinthians 14, What I call the "Love and Truth" chapter that she alludes to in her comment. It is this Discerning of Spirits that the final outpouring of the Spirit will manifest in the church, which will in turn bring about the Unity of the Spirit, in the bond of peace.

You see all the animosity and division and denominationalism was meant to be there in order to led us to perfect love (Agape)... There are those who have walked this journey before often being loners and outcasts in the church, called to walk this journey to completion while the rest of the Body languished in division, and suckling on the milk and teachings of men, Often times being persecuted by their brothers and sisters in Christ. But God Knows the heart and the wheat and tares must grow together Until the Lord comes (1 Corinthians 4:5) when he will expose the wicked and the tares and intentions of the heart, and send his angels to separate them accordingly, to either reward or punishment.

Thank You @VictoryinJesus and I hope you can understand what I am saying here.... We are so very close to these times being fulfilled, and the Church becoming the Saints of the age to come.... (Hebrews 12:1-3) Read these verses with this in mind.

God Bless

concerning meat as in the other thread …the perspectives are varied yea? I can only share what it is slowly coming to mean to me (wrong or right). He said he had meat to eat you know not of, his meat was to do the Will of Him who sent him.

So (again only an perspective) “this is meat if you can bear it” could be the very thing we refuse or desire to hear. An example would be the idea or focus being on that which (is without) and returns to the dust as being glorified. When we hear body …what is offensive maybe is our definition of “the body” and “restored” into “one body” with “many members”. Can we bear hearing it might not be what we think it is? Will we accept that it may be: do not be conformed into the image of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind …called into worship and service to One body? Yet, we desire to adorn the other? So I get really confused in waiting for God to come glorify that which is without the body, instead of that which is within the body of Christ. Do these questions makes sense? As He asked often in the word …who can bear hearing such things? Like about the eunuchs. When focused on earthly things…there are some things hard to be heard or received as they surely go against our will and are therefore offensive.

Philippians 3:19: whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.


Philippians 3:20: For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

We eagerly await …wait upon the Lord…

Philippians 3:21: who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Who will transform… into “conformity” “the body” “the body” into what?

Philippians 4:1: Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved.

Romans 12:2-18 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. [3] For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. [4] For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: [5] So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. [6] Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; [7] Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; [8] Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. [9] Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. [10] Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; [11] Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; [12] Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; [13] Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. [14] Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. [15] Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. [16] Be of the same mind (be you transformed in the mind… into “conformity” into “the body” one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. (who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.) Be not wise in your own conceits. [17] Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. [18] If it be possible(with God all things are possible), as much as lieth in you, (Philippians 3:15-16)
live peaceably with all men.
^Philippians 3:21 Who shall change (transform) our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind?

 

[David H.]

Can we bear hearing it might not be what we think it is? Will we accept that it may be: do not be conformed into the image of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind …called into worship and service to One body? Yet, we desire to adorn the other? So I get really confused in waiting for God to come glorify that which is without the body, instead of that which is within the body of Christ. Do these questions makes sense?

The answers to these questions can be found in Ephesians 4:13-16.... Yes there is a preoccupation with our physical bodies redemption in the church while ignoring the call to be in the Body of Christ and the maturation that it takes Spiritually to be "fitly joined together" into that Body. As I have tried to explain to others here, it is not just the renewing of the mind, which is the first step in the process, But the renewing of the motives that drive the mind which comes from the sanctification of the Spirit (His workmanship in us), and allowing Him to teach us, and Lead us and transform us.

This is also happening corporately in the church, as the Spirit works in the church which consists of wheat and tares growing together. Anyone who has studied church History sees this. Wheat and tares in the church are synonymous with the flesh and the Spirit in the believer. As the Mystery of Iniquity grows so too does the mystery of the Body of Christ, till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the will of God and who is not.... (Malachi 3:18).

When You see this, there comes a peace that is beyond comprehension knowing that Even with all the wickedness in the church, God is in control and Working in the Body of Christ, even though some of us may get caught up in deception from time to time by the cunning craftiness of men, He will deliver those who are His and we will learn from those deceptions the Truth and be able to Speak it in Love to others edifying the Body.

God Bless.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The answers to these questions can be found in Ephesians 4:13-16.... Yes there is a preoccupation with our physical bodies redemption in the church while ignoring the call to be in the Body of Christ and the maturation that it takes Spiritually to be "fitly joined together" into that Body. As I have tried to explain to others here, it is not just the renewing of the mind, which is the first step in the process, But the renewing of the motives that drive the mind which comes from the sanctification of the Spirit (His workmanship in us), and allowing Him to teach us, and Lead us and transform us.

This is also happening corporately in the church, as the Spirit works in the church which consists of wheat and tares growing together. Anyone who has studied church History sees this. Wheat and tares in the church are synonymous with the flesh and the Spirit in the believer. As the Mystery of Iniquity grows so too does the mystery of the Body of Christ, till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the will of God and who is not.... (Malachi 3:18).

When You see this, there comes a peace that is beyond comprehension knowing that Even with all the wickedness in the church, God is in control and Working in the Body of Christ, even though some of us may get caught up in deception from time to time by the cunning craftiness of men, He will deliver those who are His and we will learn from those deceptions the Truth and be able to Speak it in Love to others edifying the Body.

God Bless.

that is why Philippians 3:21 is comforting imo. If the focus is lessened on “conformity” of a body; and increasingly edification “with the body of His glory” …the comfort being who is able by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

you said: As the Mystery of Iniquity grows so too does the mystery of the Body of Christ, till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the will of God and who is not.... (Malachi 3:18).

till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the Will of God and who is not…seems synonymous with the Revealing (appearing) of Christ.

 

[David H.]

till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the Will of God and who is not…seems synonymous with the Revealing (appearing) of Christ.

Very close to that time.... read the explanation of the Parable of the Wheat and tares Matthew 13:37-43. The harvest ripens shortly before he returns and he sends his angels to do the harvesting. It is all an analogy of the fall harvest, the wheat itself is placed on the Threshing floor where the chaff is separated which is a picture of the Great tribulation, the tribulum being rubbed used to separate the wheat and the chaff.

 

[marks]

till the final outpouring of the Spirit will reveal who is doing the Will of God and who is not…seems synonymous with the Revealing (appearing) of Christ.

Hi ViJ,

In what way the revealing or appearing of Christ? Do you mean the second coming?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Philippians 3:20: For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

We eagerly await …wait upon the Lord…

Philippians 3:21: who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Who will transform… into “conformity” “the body” “the body” into what?

Philippians 4:1: Therefore, my beloved brethren whom I long to see, my joy and crown, in this way stand firm in the Lord, my beloved.

I think both are transformed, my vile body of flesh, and as we are all transformed, the body of Christ is transformed, whose body we are.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi ViJ,

In what way the revealing or appearing of Christ? Do you mean the second coming?

Much love!

I don’t know and only meant to suggest in considering: revealing who is doing the Will of God, and who is not. “Who is not” makes me think of the old man, where He said to put off the old man and put on the New. To put off lying and corruption which by nature to me doesn’t sound like the one doing the Will of God. But instead, I was considering where it is instructed “Christ in you” the Hope and all the scriptures of until Christ is made manifest in you, or till Christ be formed in you…do you think the old man is doing the Will of God, or the New?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think both are transformed, my vile body of flesh, and as we are all transformed, the body of Christ is transformed, whose body we are.

Much love!

With all due respect, especially what is witnessed in fights, debates, back-biting and accusations…it is pretty hopeful He says He is able to transform His body into, the body tempered together in love where every member is needful. As Christ prayed “that they may be one as we are one…so that the world will know you sent Me.” It is pretty significant (Imo) that He can subdue that body…His body …unto Himself.

 

[marks]

It is pretty significant (Imo) that He can subdue that body…His body …unto Himself.

I believe Jesus is doing this also one child at a time, and as we grow closer to Him, we grow closer to each other. If we can ever lay aside our pride over differences, and allow ourselves to love and be loved, the rest follows.

We talk about milk and meat, I think milk is what we learn about being saved, and meat is what we learn about loving others. Learning of course in both teaching and doing.

The passage in Ephesians 4 speaks of the unity of the faith and knowledge of the Son of God, this reminds me, Take my yoke on you, learn of Me, for I am lowly, and humble of heart, and you shall find rest for your souls.

It's been well said, "Hurt people hurt people". We need to let go of those things.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

my vile body of flesh

ok we do get that our body is just fine, right?
its "flesh thinking" that is "vile?"

 

[marks]

ok we do get that our body is just fine, right?
its "flesh thinking" that is "vile?"

Where Paul wrote, as I understand it, "the body of our humiliation", the KJV translates, our vile body. Maybe when I say, body of flesh, I'm introducing confusion, so, I'll leave it at "body" like Paul, and like the KJV.

So it seems the complaint is against the body itself. Not mine, that is, well, I do complain sometimes, but I mean Paul. What he's talking about. As I understand him.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Where Paul wrote, as I understand it, "the body of our humiliation", the KJV translates, our vile body. Maybe when I say, body of flesh, I'm introducing confusion, so, I'll leave it at "body" like Paul, and like the KJV.

So it seems the complaint is against the body itself. Not mine, that is, well, I do complain sometimes, but I mean Paul. What he's talking about. As I understand him.

Much love!

Philippians 3:21 Lexicon: who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
wherein "vile" body has already disappeared, seems to me (kjv rolleyes anyway, sheesh already) and,
Their minds are set on earthly things.20But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

i mean dont get me wrong, you can consider your body "vile" if you want, but i would at least be seeking a witness.

big Buddhist thing though, i guess,
"
Into my vile body of flesh You came, as though it were a temple of gold, And soothed me wholly and saved me, O Lord of Grace, Lord Krishna,O Gem most Pure, Sorrow and birth and death and illusion You took from me, and set me free. O Bliss! O Light! I have taken refuge in You, And never can I be parted from You.Nov 1, 2021

Lord Krishna's Paradise "The most confidential secrets of life"

so i am more inclined to believe a ref to Buddhism was being installed, as a few other verses also do? dunno

 

[marks]

ok we do get that our body is just fine, right?
its "flesh thinking" that is "vile?"

Oh, and yeah, flesh-thinking gets rather vile sometimes, I've found!

But you gotta wonder . . . where does that "flesh-thinking" come from? Maybe a corrupt mind? And where that? Maybe a corrupt body, including it's brain? A corrupt body, the Bible talks about that. A body of flesh, the Bible talks about that. The flesh is corrupt, yes, we read about that. The flesh has a mind, that also is Scripture.

Then there is that new mind, the mind of Christ. Of course, repentance, metanoia, if you want to look at the basic meaning, it's this, having a new mind where you used to have an old mind. The Bible tells us to renew our minds, to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

It tells us about deceptive lusts that war against our souls. Lusts of the flesh, body appetites, corrupted, out of control. The Spirit brings self-control. Transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Transformed to put on the new man, created in righteousness and holiness, His "little a" annointed one sent into this world. As He is, so are we in this world. Urging you, be reconciled to God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

so i am more inclined to believe a ref to Buddhism was being installed, as a few other verses also do? dunno

That could be I suppose. I don't think so myself. But maybe you are right and I don't see it. And maybe some that are "Word" to you were put there by a well meaning but quite drunken scribe? Who's to say? Is it all about which parts we think are OK? And our opinions and desires inform us about that?

Or am I to think that we have a Creator Who intends to reveal Himself to us, and has given us a book for that purpose? Can just anyone fiddle around with that? I guess a lot do, by the looks of things. Suddenly it comes to manuscript families and correctors, and textual criticism, I'll say, I like the Majority Manuscript, and I like literal translations.

And for the trustworthiness of the text, for me its a matter of faith, something like, "forever your word is preserved in the heavens, your faithfulness is unto all generations", Psalm 119 something.

I pretty much figure either it's that way, that God has actually preserved His Word sufficiently for me to get the right idea about Him from it, or, if not, I should go do something productive.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Philippians 3:21 Lexicon: who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
wherein "vile" body has already disappeared, seems to me (kjv rolleyes anyway, sheesh already) and,

I like that translation, btw. It could still be fine tuned a bit, but you get to, How many English words do you really want to use in a verse? But I like how it reads. Of course, I also like the KJV . . .

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

I pretty much figure either it's that way, that God has actually preserved His Word sufficiently for me to get the right idea about Him from it, or, if not, I should go do something productive.

well, we are warned about scribes, and english is the worst for that imo

 

[David H.]

Hi ViJ,

In what way the revealing or appearing of Christ? Do you mean the second coming?

Much love!

I see you cannot leave my posts be....

There is an event that must precede the coming of Christ which is the concept of the field becoming ripe.... Both the wheat and tares. This is not a mental concept, but a Spiritual one and if you are trying to grasp it with your mind you are not going to see it.

You already deny the latter rain, and the baptism of fire, and the concept of revival and our need for it so I am reluctant to explain this to you but for the benefit of others I will.

You see Christ is the Head of the Body, Once the Body lays aside its faith in the intellect it has become ripe... "Lord thou Knowest" as Ezekiel wrote. It is then when the Body stops having these metal arguments and divisions and Make Jesus the All in All of the Body, the head, that the Unity of the Spirit occurs. This is the progress of church History as we see it and this process is magnified in this Post modern era/ Laodicean age.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:22-23)

This is a unity of the Spirit not of the mind of men, the carnal mind.

The attempt to turn this discussion into a intellectual one is exactly the opposite of what is being presented here. It is this very reliance on intellectual explaining that causes the division and hinders the will of God, and shows that the harvest is not yet ready.

Do You understand what I am saying ?

God Bless.

 

[marks]

I see you cannot leave my posts be....

I was writing to ViJ, not to you, about their post, and not yours. This isn't about you.

I thought we were agreed that we were not posting to each other, as you've acknowledged that anything I write will be fruitless.

I think that's best.

Much love!