This is the context of how Dan. 9:24-27 should be considered!

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are a liar

That's a lie. So, that makes YOU a liar.

- but you already believe the lies of Satan which you choose to believe, so I'm not surprised you do what he does.

You are unhinged. You have completely lost your mind. You need help.

I never said the words which I made bold and in red above - and what I DID say, I made very clear. I'm not going to repeat it again.

Of course you won't. You imagine that you are clear, but most of the time you are not.

You either just did not bother to read it, or you did read it, and have once again deliberately lied.

Oh, so now you acknowledge that I may not have lied and may not have read it? It's not possible that I may have misunderstood what you said? Why are you not willing to clarify what you believe then? I'm not a liar. I can only go by what you actually say. If I misunderstood what you said, it wasn't on purpose. Why not just clarify to me what you think will happen when the dead are resurrected. Do you think they then appear before Jesus to be judged? Do some live on the earth for 1,000+ years after that before being judged? Just clarify what you believe. What are you afraid of?

But it's not surprising - because you're already deceived by Satan - who has you believing he is currently bound - and your doctrine is already skewed.

You're all talk. Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection. That is explicitly taught in scripture. Jesus said the hour is coming when all of the dead will be resurrected and everyone is resurrected unto either eternal life or eternal damnation. Scripture teaches that all people will be judged at the same time when Jesus returns. Scripture teaches that all believers will be changed to put on bodily immortality and all living unbelievers will be killed when Jesus returns. This does not allow for a time period afterwards for people to roam around on the earth. None of these things allow for Satan to be bound after Jesus returns because the judgment will occur when He returns. Satan will be cast into the lake of fire at that point, not the abyss/bottomless pit. Your overall understanding of scripture is skewed and that's why you have no understanding of Revelation 20. Your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts much scripture, but you don't even care about that. You'd rather change the rest of scripture to fit your false understanding of Revelation 20, then allow the rest of scripture to help you interpret Revelation 20 accurately.

So this goes beyond you. It's too deep because your understanding of the Word of God is too shallow.

Empty words from you. You're off the rails. You are completely clueless at this point. I feel sorry for you. Instead of using spiritual discernment to understand scripture, you use your imagination and emotions instead.

You are already deceived by Satan into believing that God is not able to destroy soul and body in gehennah" when, like Adam, saints turn and choose the lies of Satan and reject the Word of God, so you think we can now be careless, because Jesus has saved us and His blood cleanses us of all sin

I never said that God is not able to destroy soul and body in Gehennah. YOU are the liar here, buddy.

- therefore you are already now careless about which lies of Satan you choose to believe and which you don't - as can be seen in your own adherence to your doctrine about Satan.

Yet somehow you believe that following the resurrection you will be incapable of what your doctrinal adherence has already proved you capable of now regarding what you believe about Satan.

You talk gibberish. I doubt even you can understand what you're saying sometimes. LOL.

At the close of this age there is going to be mass apostasy from the faith - it has already started

I do agree with this.

- and those saints who turn and choose the lies of Satan - will be betraying brothers to death - as Jesus said (and as Judas did). Satan's job is already half way done in the case of those whom he already has convinced that he has been bound all this time.

What a fool you are. You need professional help. You are telling me that I have fallen away from the faith and that I am headed for hell. What is wrong with you? Why have you decided to make the Amil vs. Premil debate into a Saved Vs. Unsaved debate? You are insane. I would never make these kinds of accusations against you just because we disagree on how Revelation 20 should be interpreted. That's just crazy. Seek help.

But you're too full of yourself to believe what sort of danger you're in, that's why you so easily lie about what other saints said.

This is so incredibly foolish, it just boggles my mind. The Amil doctrine emphasizes the current Kingship and Majesty of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, but you think I'm being led astray by Satan? Even though I emphasize Christ's victory over Satan by way of His death and resurrection while praising Him for bringing salvation to the world and taking the power of death away from Satan so that he can no longer keep the world in spiritual darkness and as slaves to the fear of death because of the hope of eternal life that Christ brought into the world?

- and that's why you will merely defend yourself and double-down on your lies and hypocrisy and false doctrine regarding Satan, after this.

Your wicked accusations that I'm among those who apostasize certainly will do nothing to sway me. You better believe that I will continue promote the truth of amillennialism while refuting the false doctrine of premillennialism that you believe in. But, what I won't do is lose my mind and act as if interpreting Revelation 20 correctly is a requirement for salvation, as you are foolishly doing.

 

[claninja]

If it's real, it's not "literature". It's either history or prophecy. I don't think God is pleased w/ the way His word is being considered. Revelation is "falsely" categorized as apocalyptic literature.

Calling Revelation apocalyptic literature doesn’t deny its truth—it identifies its God-inspired literary form. Scripture itself contains multiple genres (poetry, narrative, parable, epistle), and recognizing genre is essential for proper interpretation. The symbolic imagery in Revelation is no more ‘unreal’ than the symbolic language in Daniel or Ezekiel—it’s a different way God communicates real events and truths.

 

[Trekson]

Calling Revelation apocalyptic literature doesn’t deny its truth—it identifies its God-inspired literary form. Scripture itself contains multiple genres (poetry, narrative, parable, epistle), and recognizing genre is essential for proper interpretation. The symbolic imagery in Revelation is no more ‘unreal’ than the symbolic language in Daniel or Ezekiel—it’s a different way God communicates real events and truths.

The use of 'symbolic imagery" is very limited, even that phrase makes it sound like a fictional fantasy. Why must one try to categorize it as anything other the fulfilled prophecy or unfulfilled prophecy. Is there an "imagery" that you don't understand?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The use of 'symbolic imagery" is very limited,

Not in books like Daniel and Revelation.

even that phrase makes it sound like a fictional fantasy.

That's ridiculous. You apparently don't even know what the word symbolic means. Symbolic text symbolizes reality, not fiction. Take the time to learn what words mean.

 

[CTK]

Not in books like Daniel and Revelation.


That's ridiculous. You apparently don't even know what the word symbolic means. Symbolic text symbolizes reality, not fiction. Take the time to learn what words mean.

I would say that Daniel may be approximately 80% symbolic / prophetic while Revelation is around 90 - 95 % symbolic.

Despite “today’s accepted interpretations” for both books, Daniel is not a history book and should not be interpreted as such!
For the most part, “today’s accepted interpretations,” in my opinion, have come about with a “scholar,” regardless of when he / she lived as though they were sitting at their desk with the Book of Daniel or Revelation opened on the left side with our very flawed and incomplete history books on the right side and they will go back and forth between the two sets of books trying to match the actors and events together. More like an historian would do than a biblical scholar. And when so many verses can and will not be found to “match up,” almost all will declare they must be “end time” events.

Not the right approach to try and interpret the Word of God. God will certainly present His prophecies WITHIN a historical structure (4 kingdoms) but we will not find any of His prophecies in our history books. Hence, there is no need to visit the history section of the library when we try to interpret either Daniel or Revelation. Just my opinion.

 

[David in NJ]

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the (national) transgression, and to (This affirms that it is upon Israel and Jerusalem TO fulfill the following tasks) make an end of (national) sins, and to make reconciliation for (national) iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, (escort Christ into Jerusalem after Armageddon for the true triumphal entry) and to seal up the vision and prophecy, (When the next task is done the prophecies concerning Christ and this present dispensation will be completed) and to anoint the most Holy" (As King and Messiah of Israel and the earth as kings were anointed in OT days).

There are no prophecies about the duration of his ministry and as you can see the anointing of the HS is “not” the anointing being spoken, so neither of these qualify as the starting point of the 70th week. There is only one prophecy that speaks of Christ coming as King and that is Zech. 9:9 - “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. This is at the end of his ministry just 2 - 3 days before his being ‘cut off”. Christ’s death was the last day of the 69th week. In the context of Dan. 9, the 70th week is separate from the other 69 and in Dan. 9:26b we have the prophecy about 70ad so in a linear reading of events, vs. 27 comes at an unknown amount of time “after” 70ad.

Also, considering the vast majority of biblical scholars put the writing of Rev. at around 95ad, John is prophesying about a time well into the future from his time. There are a few prophecies in Rev. that could never be understood until we reached a level of technology that made them possible. If one reads Rev. as some sort of false spiritual writing/interpretation instead of the literal interpretation as it should be, one will not even get close to the truth.

Also telling is the fact that the 4th beast of Rev. 7 wasn’t Rome. The ten horns equate w/ the 5th kingdom of the ten toes from Dan. 2. A proper understanding of Dan. 7:17 shows that these beasts are future to Daniel’s time thus eliminating Babylon as being the first beast of Dan. 7. This should bring one to the realization that the 5th kingdom of Dan. 2 and the 4th kingdom of Dan. 7 has not yet arrived. No gap = no church. It was always part of God’s plan and the 70th week will begin in His timing, not ours.

CHRIST died in the middle of the 70th week = just as the Scripture Says = "after the 69th week Messiah will be cut off"

 

[Trekson]

CHRIST died in the middle of the 70th week = just as the Scripture Says = "after the 69th week Messiah will be cut off"

He died and was entombed just before sunset on the last day of the 69th week. Sunset began the first day of the 70th week which was a sabbath, thus the need for him to get buried quickly. The 70th week never began.

 

[covenantee]

He died and was entombed just before sunset on the last day of the 69th week. Sunset began the first day of the 70th week which was a sabbath, thus the need for him to get buried quickly. The 70th week never began.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

Explain how Scripture's "in the midst" is your "on the last day".
Your 70th week has not begun and never will.
Because Scripture's 70th week began and ended 2,000 years ago.
Just as God and His Son Planned.
Praise God and His Son for their Plan.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I would say that Daniel may be approximately 80% symbolic / prophetic while Revelation is around 90 - 95 % symbolic.

I would say that seems about right.

Despite “today’s accepted interpretations” for both books, Daniel is not a history book and should not be interpreted as such!

Hmmm. I do believe it partly refers to historical world empires, so I can't completely agree with that statement.

For the most part, “today’s accepted interpretations,” in my opinion, have come about with a “scholar,” regardless of when he / she lived as though they were sitting at their desk with the Book of Daniel or Revelation opened on the left side with our very flawed and incomplete history books on the right side and they will go back and forth between the two sets of books trying to match the actors and events together. More like an historian would do than a biblical scholar. And when so many verses can and will not be found to “match up,” almost all will declare they must be “end time” events.

Like how futurists see two different references to what they believe are literal 3.5 year time periods (described as 42 months, 1260 days and a time, times and half a time) in Revelation and then try to apply that to the 70th week of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy. They miss that those time periods are figurative and do not refer to a literal 3.5 years.

Not the right approach to try and interpret the Word of God. God will certainly present His prophecies WITHIN a historical structure (4 kingdoms) but we will not find any of His prophecies in our history books. Hence, there is no need to visit the history section of the library when we try to interpret either Daniel or Revelation. Just my opinion.

Again, I can't completely agree with this since it's clear to me that Daniel refers to four different historical world empires. And I believe the seven heads of the beast in Revelation refer to historical kingdoms. The kingdom that "is" at the time the book was written (Rev 17:10) was the Roman empire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He died and was entombed just before sunset on the last day of the 69th week. Sunset began the first day of the 70th week which was a sabbath, thus the need for him to get buried quickly. The 70th week never began.

 

[CTK]

I would say that seems about right.

Hmmm. I do believe it partly refers to historical world empires, so I can't completely agree with that statement.

I don’t believe we are in disagreement here. The Book of Daniel is a prophetic writing that begins in the context of Jerusalem’s fall and the exile of its people to Babylon around 606 BC. From that point, Daniel records not only the events that unfold during the seventy-year captivity, but also the greater prophetic outline of how and when both the people and the city will ultimately be restored.

To accomplish this, God provides Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel with dreams and visions that trace the progression through four successive kingdoms. But the kingdoms themselves—their rulers, their conflicts, and their rise and fall—are not the central story. They are the framework that carries the story.

Within that framework, God reveals something far greater: His plan of restoration and salvation. What begins with the exile of His people expands into a much larger purpose—not only the return to Jerusalem, but the redemption of humanity itself. The kingdoms provide the setting, but the message is centered on God’s unfolding work to restore what was lost.

Much of today’s commonly accepted interpretation, however, tends to focus primarily on identifying these four kingdoms and aligning them with known historical empires. Because many of those alignments do appear to match well with the historical record, they can give a sense of certainty and completeness to the interpretation. And when certain details do not seem to align as neatly, it often becomes convenient to project those elements into the future, assuming they must refer to events or figures yet to come.

The challenge with relying too heavily on this historical approach is that it can unintentionally shift the focus away from the purpose of the prophecy itself. Instead of asking what God is revealing about His plan of salvation, the emphasis can become centered on matching events, timelines, and political movements. In doing so, the deeper message—the one that Daniel consistently points toward—can become secondary.

So the issue is not whether history plays a role in interpretation—it clearly does—but whether history is being used as the primary lens, rather than allowing the prophetic structure itself to guide our understanding of what God is revealing.

Like how futurists see two different references to what they believe are literal 3.5 year time periods (described as 42 months, 1260 days and a time, times and half a time) in Revelation and then try to apply that to the 70th week of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy. They miss that those time periods are figurative and do not refer to a literal 3.5 years.

Yes.

Again, I can't completely agree with this since it's clear to me that Daniel refers to four different historical world empires. And I believe the seven heads of the beast in Revelation refer to historical kingdoms. The kingdom that "is" at the time the book was written (Rev 17:10) was the Roman empire.

I think we agree the prophecies are indeed placed within the 4 literal kingdoms found in Daniel 2. And the 4th kingdom, in its second phase as papal Rome (where pagan Rome was slain in 476 AD - Daniel 7:11) will continue until His return where he and the 4th beast will be destroyed without human hands. And this is also one of the points mentioned in Daniel that, in my mind, confirm this little horn is indeed what most interpreters identify as the "anti-Christ" figure. It is my belief there is absolutely no such character mentioned in Daniel or Revelation but this "little horn" who goes against God, His kingdom, His people, His laws and commands, etc., continues until His return. Meaning, he is the one that continues until he is destroyed by God Himself. No need to bring in a mythical anti-Christ figure that will be destoryed by God. At the time of the end, and before those who have gone to the grave without Christ are raised for judgement, the two - little horn and the false prophet will have already been thrown in the lake of fire. But that is another story. Thanks.

 

[Earburner]

(Ref. Post #410 by @Spiritual Israelite ).

Yep...."you can't fix stupid".

And of course, all of that stupidity of a belief system, to move the 70th week out to the end of time, has been a fabrication right out of the denominational Bible colleges of "CHURCH- IANITY".

Edit:
Evidently, @Trekson is not even taking into consideration that "time" did not stop for Jesus, who is Eternal before and after His mortal existence!!

Since it was the Messiah/Jesus who was "cut off" (crucified) in the midst of the 70th week of 7 years, it stands to reason, by the Holy Spirit, that Jesus would continue to confirm the [new] covenant in the latter half of the 70th week, consisting also of 3.5 years.
And that He did!!
We have the evidence, by the records of the Apostolic Epistles.

 

[David in NJ]

He died and was entombed just before sunset on the last day of the 69th week. Sunset began the first day of the 70th week which was a sabbath, thus the need for him to get buried quickly. The 70th week never began.

Nowhere in Scripture will you find "He died on the last day of the 69th week"

When you say: "The 70th week never began"= you speak against the TRUTH

24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

 

[Trekson]

Nowhere in Scripture will you find "He died on the last day of the 69th week"

When you say: "The 70th week never began"= you speak against the TRUTH

24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

The 70th will still come, nothing declares they have to be consecutive as the break of 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week shows. There is a reason why the last week is all by itself and in the linear reading it is an unknown amount of time "after" 70ad. Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill but Christ laid the foundation for them to be able to do it. No gap, = no church.

 

[Earburner]

The 70th will still come, nothing declares they have to be consecutive as the break of 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week shows. There is a reason why the last week is all by itself and in the linear reading it is an unknown amount of time "after" 70ad. Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill but Christ laid the foundation for them to be able to do it. No gap, = no church.

@Trekson here is a clue that you need to study and pray about. It's not about WHAT "the wisdom of man teaches", but rather WHAT "the Holy Spirit teaches" you, AND GUIDES you into ALL Truth.

BE AWARE, there are MANY graduates out of the denominational Bible Colleges of "church-ianity", who DO NOT HAVE the Gift of God's Holy Spirit.
Scripturally, we know them as "the tares".

Please read and study all of 1 Cor. ch. 2

 

[Earburner]

Nowhere in Scripture will you find "He died on the last day of the 69th week"

When you say: "The 70th week never began"= you speak against the TRUTH

24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Now here is God's conundrum:
26“And AFTER the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

God NEVER SAYS WHICH week is about the Messiah being "cut off" (crucified), but then He does go on to describe the 70th week.

In verse 27 God gives us a clue of what is going on in the 70th week. It's about the "he" who is Jesus, and no one else, even though many have been led to falsely believe and imagine that it might be some kind of a "man of sin".
27 And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (seven years): and in the midst of the week he (Jesus) shall cause the (temple) sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (the continuance of animal sacrifices) he (Jesus) shall make it (the temple building) desolate, even until the consummation (the end of time), and that determined (the 6 works of God- verse 24) shall be poured (out) upon the desolate (Pentecost- on those who believe but are void of God- Acts 2:16-17).

Surely you all do know why God was being somewhat evasive (secretive) of the exact time/date of Jesus' appearance??
1 Cor. 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Edit:
Do you NOW understand WHY God spoke a conundrum in Dan. 9:24-27?
If Jesus was not crucified, but lived a protected life until his natural, mortal death, there would NEVER BE the forgiveness and removal of anyone's sins.....EVER!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 70th will still come, nothing declares they have to be consecutive as the break of 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week shows. There is a reason why the last week is all by itself and in the linear reading it is an unknown amount of time "after" 70ad. Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill but Christ laid the foundation for them to be able to do it. No gap, = no church.

Do you see a gap between the end of the first 7 weeks (7th week) and beginning of the next 62 weeks (the 8th week)? If not, then you have no point here. You are acting as if the separation of the weeks into those groups proves a gap, but that would mean there would have to be a gap between the end of the 7th week and beginning of the 8th week. But, I highly doubt you believe that.

 

[Trekson]

@Trekson here is a clue that you need study and pray about. It's not about WHAT "the wisdom of man teaches", but rather WHAT "the Holy Spirit teaches" you, AND GUIDES you into ALL Truth.

BE AWARE, there are MANY graduates out of the denominational Bible Colleges of "church-ianity, who DO NOT HAVE the Gift of God's Holy Spirit.
Scripturally, we know them as "the tares".

Please read and study all of 1 Cor. ch. 2

It has been the HS who has revealed these things to me and they align w/ the whole of prophecy. it would be revealed to others if they prayed for understanding instead of dismissal because it's something you haven't heard before. In these latter days scripture promises that our knowledge of prophecy, among other types, will increase. Nobody else has taught me these things. If there is something about it you don't understand or comprehend, ask. It would take a book to try and explain everything but ask a couple of questions at a time about it if you want to see where we branch off.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It has been the HS who has revealed these things to me

 

[covenantee]

It has been the HS who has revealed these things to me and they align w/ the whole of prophecy. it would be revealed to others if they prayed for understanding instead of dismissal because it's something you haven't heard before. In these latter days scripture promises that our knowledge of prophecy, among other types, will increase. Nobody else has taught me these things. If there is something about it you don't understand or comprehend, ask. It would take a book to try and explain everything but ask a couple of questions at a time about it if you want to see where we branch off.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Daniel was a prophet. Therefore, there were things concerning Jesus, written by Daniel the prophet, which Jesus had fulfilled.
What things do you think those were?
Hint: Try Daniel 9:24.