This is totally for Christian's

[Linda]

When I look around at our society and how it functions, there's one thing I have to admit we can't possibly be ready for.

Heaven.

I can't see how we would be able to adjust in that timeless existence of being as one community, with one heart and one soul. Because heaven would be the flipside of everything we are determined to believe is good to become here. What I mean by flipside is that we have yet to emulate how a real heaven should be on earth. So I'll break it down like this.

How I perceive heaven would function.

1: I perceive heaven would have no use for money or monetary systems.

2: I perceive heaven would be a community of equals.

3: I perceive heaven as a place of absolute openness.

4: I perceive heaven without borders, race or creed.

I think that's fair breakdown.

When thinking in these terms about existing in that type of community, I don't see or know of anything Christian or non-christian that has emulated this type of community here on earth. So who of us will be ready to live in a place like that?

I don't know I really don't know.

Beautifully said, and sadly true, but thankfully
God looks at each of us separately, which still
Isnt an easy task compared to Gods Sovereignty.

 

[Linda]

Sure, you are free not to believe in a God? You are free to choose, but not free from the consequence of the choice. God does not force belief. People reject Him all the time. Jesus said, “ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” ~John 5:40. So yes, you can refuse.

But Scripture is clear that unbelief still has an outcome. “He that believeth not is condemned already” ~John 3:18. Freedom of choice does not cancel reality any more than ignoring gravity stops a fall.

So you are free to not believe. You just are not free to make that decision neutral before God. Rejecting God is not treated as “no decision” by God. It counts as a decision against Him.

Lets discuss belief and what it really means, since the devil believes and shudders.
It appears if we break that word down to
Its origin of intention it leads us to further
Knowledge of the Word, though we know
Most say, yes, we believe in God but do we
Walk uprightly in Society, or do we not conform?
We need to ask ourselves, what does it really
Mean to believe in God when it comes down
To our daily life, our thoughts and our deeds?

When God said He is the way and the truth
And the life, can we say we still need improvement and can we say that our Words
Are our bond of truth in how we speak each day?
The life we live is always under scrutiny of some kind, effecting our emotions, our intelligence
And our Will, as God speaks those words to
Teaching us all what believing truly looks like,
Do we reflect a belief at all, if not, in who do
We really believe in.

It seems that when God said the unbeliever
Is already condemned, Hes backing it up
By saying all of the above, in what He knows
Us or doesnt know us to be in thought word
And deed, therefore if God is teaching us now
To be forewarned that He never knew us, we
Want to realize this now, instead of defending
Ourselves in telling God all we did in His name,
Which ends up, He never knew us no matter
What we did, just from saying we believe?

In what do we really believe our lives will
Emulate, and in each thought and Word
To each and every deed that our Will
Freely chose to do.

At the end of the day, and our lives, we
Realize why some are condemned and
Others not, and it is more then our
Claim to believe, its each day of our
Lives that speaks to what we believe in
And who we believe in, as well as our
Every action tells God we believe or
Not.

 

[bdavidc]

Lets discuss belief and what it really means, since the devil believes and shudders.

You’re putting your finger on something real. The Bible never treats belief as just saying the right sentence. Even demons know God is real ~James 2:19, and Jesus warned some will talk about what they did for Him yet hear “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:22-23. So faith is more than lip service. It eventually shows up in how a person lives.

But Scripture also keeps the order straight. We don’t live right so God will accept us. God accepts us through trusting Christ, “to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5 and “by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Then the life begins to change because we belong to Him, “created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10.

So works are the evidence, not the entrance. A tree doesn’t produce fruit to become alive. It produces fruit because it already is. That’s the kind of belief Scripture is talking about.

 

[lforrest]

God knew what you would write before you were even born. In this case, your future is already set in stone. You're merely living out God's divine plan for your life.

I find it interesting how Christians talk about a divine plan while simultaneously believing in freewill. You can't have it both ways.

From our perspective we are able to exercise our will. And from our perspective we affect our reality. Our choices are as real as the world we live in. God knowing the end from the beginning only effects us when he reveals what is going to happen.

 

[Linda]

You’re putting your finger on something real. The Bible never treats belief as just saying the right sentence. Even demons know God is real ~James 2:19, and Jesus warned some will talk about what they did for Him yet hear “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:22-23. So faith is more than lip service. It eventually shows up in how a person lives.

But Scripture also keeps the order straight. We don’t live right so God will accept us. God accepts us through trusting Christ, “to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5 and “by grace are ye saved through faith… not of works” ~Ephesians 2:8-9. Then the life begins to change because we belong to Him, “created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:10.

So works are the evidence, not the entrance. A tree doesn’t produce fruit to become alive. It produces fruit because it already is. That’s the kind of belief Scripture is talking about.

Yes thats correct, but we must obey Him
If we love Him too, you didnt mention
Obedience…

Jesus is strict on obedience.

 

[2bme]

Good passage to bring up, because it actually answers your point, not supports uncertainty.

Notice what Jesus says: “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:23.
Not I knew you once and then rejected you.
Not you lost Me.
He says never.

The issue in that text is not a believer failing. It is a professor pretending.

They call Him “Lord, Lord” ~Matthew 7:21.
They do religious works ~Matthew 7:22.
They even do impressive spiritual activity.
But Jesus exposes the reality. There was no relationship.

The word “knew” comes from Greek ginōskō, meaning personal relational knowledge, not awareness. Christ is saying they were never His people at all.

And He tells you why: “ye that work iniquity” ~Matthew 7:23.
“Iniquity” is anomia, lawlessness. A life unchanged by Him.

So this passage is not warning true believers they might be rejected later.
It is warning religious people that activity is not salvation.

Scripture explains the difference clearly:
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life” ~John 3:36
“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:27-28

Matthew 7 is the contrast to that.
People who talk about Jesus vs people who belong to Jesus.

The warning is real, but the target is false faith, not real faith. The question is not whether someone said the right words. The question is whether Christ actually knows them.

My point I was attempting to described is how those people who are not true believers didn't actually know until they reach judgement. But I think I get what you're explaining, that those people are only pretending to be Christian's but actually know they're not. Although I must ask. Why would those people who were pretending all along claim to Jesus after "We did all these works in your name" Why are people who know that they are pretending to follow Jesus for some ulterior motive still believing that what they did was for Jesus?

 

[2bme]

Beautifully said, and sadly true, but thankfully
God looks at each of us separately, which still
Isnt an easy task compared to Gods Sovereignty.

Okay

 

[bdavidc]

My point I was attempting to described is how those people who are not true believers didn't actually know until they reach judgement. But I think I get what you're explaining, that those people are only pretending to be Christian's but actually know they're not. Although I must ask. Why would those people who were pretending all along claim to Jesus after "We did all these works in your name" Why are people who know that they are pretending to follow Jesus for some ulterior motive still believing that what they did was for Jesus?

They weren’t knowingly pretending. They were self-deceived. Notice their surprise. They say, “Lord, Lord… have we not prophesied in thy name… and in thy name done many wonderful works?” ~Matthew 7:22. They expected acceptance. That means they believed their works proved they belonged to Him.

Their confidence was in what they did, not in mercy. Scripture describes this kind of person as “deceiving your own selves” ~James 1:22 and “having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” ~2 Timothy 3:5. They measured themselves by activity instead of new birth.

That is why Jesus answers, “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:23. The relationship never existed even though the religion did. Compare the tax collector who cried for mercy and was justified ~Luke 18:13-14.

So they were not actors trying to trick God. They had convinced themselves they were His because of their works, and only discovered the truth at judgment. A lot of people like the idea of Jesus. They want heaven, they want blessing, they want the benefits. But Jesus said following Him starts with denying yourself and taking up your cross ~Luke 9:23 and counting the cost ~Luke 14:28. Salvation is free, but it will cost you your life.

So some folks make a confession with their mouth, but their heart never bows. They join the crowd but never surrender the throne. When pressure comes, they walk away. That doesn’t mean they lost salvation. It means they never had it. “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

 

[bdavidc]

Yes thats correct, but we must obey Him
If we love Him too, you didnt mention
Obedience…

You’re right, obedience matters. Jesus said plainly, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” ~John 14:15. Real faith does not ignore Him.

 

[soberxp]

My point I was attempting to described is how those people who are not true believers didn't actually know until they reach judgement. But I think I get what you're explaining, that those people are only pretending to be Christian's but actually know they're not. Although I must ask. Why would those people who were pretending all along claim to Jesus after "We did all these works in your name" Why are people who know that they are pretending to follow Jesus for some ulterior motive still believing that what they did was for Jesus?

John 10:27

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

 

[Linda]

My point I was attempting to described is how those people who are not true believers didn't actually know until they reach judgement. But I think I get what you're explaining, that those people are only pretending to be Christian's but actually know they're not. Although I must ask. Why would those people who were pretending all along claim to Jesus after "We did all these works in your name" Why are people who know that they are pretending to follow Jesus for some ulterior motive still believing that what they did was for Jesus?

Because of what we discussed earlier, about our believing in God, but do we really know all
That it entails?
They might not have even realized they
Were doing it for the wrong reasons, but God
Knows the heart, so much so that He told us,
“ dont let your left hand know what the right
Hand is doing”, or we might be fooled even
Thinking our intentions were good, so all we
Can do is not lean on our own understanding, as Jesus said, and think nothing of what good we do if opportunity permits it, to remain humble
And for us to be warned what was also
Told to us to bear in mind, “ that the fleshly heart is deceitfully wicked”, by our ego, and
We must ask ourselves whether or not our
Reasons were for our ego or genuine, or we
Can be fooled, which is why Christ gave us
Examples, such as where to pray and where
Not to pray, since if we are on a street corner
Christ said we already received our reward,
In other words, from those who saw us, so
Thats why Christ said go to your room, close
The door, and God who sees you in secret
Will reward you.

These are some of the examples we are
Warned about, of course that doesnt mean
We cannot pray with other believers in a church
Setting, since we were also told we arent to
Forsake ourselves from the assembly of believers.

You’re right, obedience matters. Jesus said plainly, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” ~John 14:15. Real faith does not ignore Him.

yes as you stated, “ their hearts never bowed”

We must be broken to be fixed, and if we
Arent willing to be totally broken, there is
Nothing else God can do!

 

[Wrangler]

You’re not being kept out of heaven because you wouldn’t like me there. You’re outside because you don’t want God there.

Nasty post. I can’t imagine the Spirit of one who would write such a thing.

 

[Wrangler]

I find it interesting how Christians talk about a divine plan while simultaneously believing in freewill. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, it is both ways. Scripture says you make plans but God charts your steps. The analogy is akin to being on a cruise ship. You can do anything you want but the captain decides its destination.

 

[bdavidc]

Nasty post. I can’t imagine the Spirit of one who would write such a thing.

You call it nasty, but it is simply what God has already said. Scripture declares “the carnal mind is enmity against God” ~Romans 8:7 and Jesus said “ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” ~John 5:40. That is not my opinion about a man. That is God’s diagnosis of the human heart.

The call to repent is not unkindness. It is obedience. “God… now commandeth all men every where to repent” ~Acts 17:30. Silence would be cruelty. Warning is mercy.

The message sounds severe because judgment is severe. Christ Himself spoke of “everlasting punishment” and “life eternal” ~Matthew 25:46. If we soften that, we do not become loving. We become dishonest.

So the issue is not tone but truth. Either we accept what God says about us and flee to Christ, or we argue with the warning and remain under it.

 

[Linda]

You call it nasty, but it is simply what God has already said. Scripture declares “the carnal mind is enmity against God” ~Romans 8:7 and Jesus said “ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” ~John 5:40. That is not my opinion about a man. That is God’s diagnosis of the human heart.

The call to repent is not unkindness. It is obedience. “God… now commandeth all men every where to repent” ~Acts 17:30. Silence would be cruelty. Warning is mercy.

The message sounds severe because judgment is severe. Christ Himself spoke of “everlasting punishment” and “life eternal” ~Matthew 25:46. If we soften that, we do not become loving. We become dishonest.

So the issue is not tone but truth. Either we accept what God says about us and flee to Christ, or we argue with the warning and remain under it.

Choose whom you will serve, self or Gods ways

 

[Wrangler]

You’re not being kept out of heaven because you wouldn’t like me there. You’re outside because you don’t want God there.

Nasty post. I can’t imagine the Spirit of one who would write such a thing.

You call it nasty, but it is simply what God has already said.

Shame on you! God did not say we will be kept out of heaven Because we who is there, especially because we don’t want Gid there.

 

[bdavidc]

Shame on you! God did not say we will be kept out of heaven Because we who is there, especially because we don’t want Gid there.

You are still making heaven about people. Scripture makes it about God. Men are not excluded because they dislike the company. They are excluded because they refuse Him. Jesus said, “ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” ~John 5:40 and “men loved darkness rather than light” ~John 3:19.

Heaven is not a neutral place where everyone simply gets along. It is the dwelling of a holy God, and “there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth” ~Revelation 21:27. A person who will not have God now would not have Him then.


So the issue is not who is in heaven. The issue is whether a person wants God Himself. Christ’s words are a warning, not an insult. The warning is not an insult. It is repeating Christ’s own words.

 

[Wrangler]

You are still making heaven about people.

Nope, just following your accusations.