This seems somewhat hypocritical, does it not?

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Foreigner

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This doesn't seem quite right when you consider that the Catholic Church believes life begins at birth and that Catholic Hospitals and Colleges believe they should be exempt from the Obama Healthcare mandate due to their Catholic beliefs.

One also needs to take into account that in CA, if a man murders a pregnant woman, he is charged with two counts of homicide, not one.
http://www.lifenews.com/2009/06/05/state-4210/



Curious....


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/25/bizarre-catholic-hospital-argues-that-7-month-old-fetuses-arent-persons-in-wrongful-death-legal-battle/

Catholic Hospital Argues That 7-Month-Old Fetuses Aren’t ‘Persons’ in Wrongful-Death Legal Battle

A Catholic hospital in Cañon City, Colo., is facing intense scrutiny for arguing that fetuses aren’t people in the midst of defending itself against a malpractice claim, according to The Colorado Independent. Naturally, this opinion is pointedly bizarre considering the Catholic Church’s intense pro-life stance — one that argues that life begins at the moment of conception. The legal battle between the family of Lori Stodghill, a woman who died at the hospital back in 2006, and Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI), an organization that owns St. Thomas More hospital, led to what can only be described as a curious and troubling defense.
The 31-year-old woman was pregnant with twins on New Year’s Day in 2006 when she sought urgent medical assistance. When she arrived at the hospital, Stodghill was vomiting and short of breath, sustaining a clogged artery and a massive heart attack. While medical practitioners attempted to resuscitate her, they were unsuccessful and the doctor on call purportedly never answered a page seeking medical assistance. The twins died after Stodghill passed away — just one hour after arriving at St. Thomas More.
AP.jpg
Photo Credit: AP

The woman’s husband, Jeremy, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit in the wake of the incident, claiming that the doctor on call should have responded. Had there been additional medical coordination, he believes his unborn children might have been saved. While an expert testified that the mother’s life likely couldn’t have been spared, had the doctor been on hand and ordered a cesarean section, the individual agreed that the twins might still be alive today.

The Colorado Independent explains more details about the CHI and the curious defense that the organization has given against Jeremy’s claims (emphasis added):

The lead defendant in the case is Catholic Health Initiatives, the Englewood-based nonprofit that runs St. Thomas More Hospital as well as roughly 170 other health facilities in 17 states. Last year, the hospital chain reported national assets of $15 billion. The organization’s mission, according to its promotional literature, is to “nurture the healing ministry of the Church” and to be guided by “fidelity to the Gospel.” Toward those ends, Catholic Health facilities seek to follow the Ethical and Religious Directives of the Catholic Church authored by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Those rules have stirred controversy for decades, mainly for forbidding non-natural birth control and abortions. “Catholic health care ministry witnesses to the sanctity of life ‘from the moment of conception until death,’” the directives state. “The Church’s defense of life encompasses the unborn.” [...]
But when it came to mounting a defense in the Stodghill case, Catholic Health’s lawyers effectively turned the Church directives on their head. Catholic organizations have for decades fought to change federal and state laws that fail to protect “unborn persons,” and Catholic Health’s lawyers in this case had the chance to set precedent bolstering anti-abortion legal arguments. Instead, they are arguing state law protects doctors from liability concerning unborn fetuses on grounds that those fetuses are not persons with legal rights.

According to the Independent, Jason Langley, a lawyer representing the defense, argued in a brief that the court that the case should consider that “the term ‘person,’ as is used in the Wrongful Death Act, encompasses only individuals born alive” (emphasis added). The brief goes on to say that Colorado law recognizes a “person” as someone who has been “born alive” and that the family’s claim cannot possibly stand, because the wrongful death lawsuit is “based on two unborn fetuses.”
So far, Jeremy has not had much luck avenging his wife’s death, as judgements have gone in favor of CHI. Lawyers for the family have appealed to the state’s Supreme Court, where they hope to, again, have the case heard. The court is slated to decide whether to hear the legal battle in the next few weeks. Regardless of what happens, CHI’s lawyers utilizing the “fetus” argument appears extremely contradictory, specifically when considering the Catholic Church’s powerful and prevalent pro-life stance.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Hypocritical yes of course .... but this matter is being dealt with in a secular courtroom .... the church is simply using the wording of the law to defend themselves.

It is the secular justice system that has bee hypocritical for the last 40 years..... not the church ..... the law says it is OK to terminate a life in the womb (abortion) ... but it is a murder charge if you kill a baby in the womb (pregnant mother)

We should also remember it was The Catholic Church who built most of the hospitals in the early days.

Should they have told the secular world to go to hell when they brought their sick to a Christian hospital ??

Some people are impossible to please.
 

soupy

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Arnie Manitoba said:
Hypocritical yes of course .... but this matter is being dealt with in a secular courtroom .... the church is simply using the wording of the law to defend themselves.

It is the secular justice system that has bee hypocritical for the last 40 years..... not the church ..... the law says it is OK to terminate a life in the womb (abortion) ... but it is a murder charge if you kill a baby in the womb (pregnant mother)

We should also remember it was The Catholic Church who built most of the hospitals in the early days.

Should they have told the secular world to go to hell when they brought their sick to a Christian hospital ??

Some people are impossible to please.
The defendant chooses their line of defense.
 

Rex

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Its just a two step dance, dance to the tune that suits you best. In this case its not beneficial to see the unborn lost as separate lives.
I'd say its par for the course.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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soupy said:
The defendant chooses their line of defense.
.
Of course ..... but in a courtroom it is the written interpretation of the laws of the state that are being tested ..... not the moral laws of the bible or Catholic doctrine.

The reality of this whole case has to do with a doctor supposedly not responding when he was called at his home. The plaintiff feels the doctor should have responded and has filed a wrongful death suit.

I have friends who are doctors and when they are on call they get numerous calls from the hospitals but seldom go in unless it is a clear emergency.

In this California case it turns out the mother was not simply having a tough pregnancy ..... she had clogged arteries and a massive heart attack .... pretty hard to diagnose until after the autopsy.
 

IanLC

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I see it as very hypocritical on the secular world's side to be so surprissed at this act and outraged yet they support the abortion of children. And very hypocritical on the Catholic church's side (This particular church in the case not the entire Roman Catholic church) for using this to defend themselves very Anti-Christian. Yet more than that I feel great sympathy and sorrow for the man who lost both his wife and children. May God continue to keep and protect him. Stuff like this are the things that can make people leave the Faith.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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"Racehorse Haynes" was a successful and famous lawyer and he said ......

If you sue me because you say my dog bit you .... this is my defense:
  • My dog doesn't bite.
  • My dog was tied up that night.
  • I don't believe you really got bit.
  • I don't have a dog anyway.



St. Thomas More hospital defense lawyers are saying:
-A woman pregnant with twins came to our hospital with pregnancy difficulties
-the woman did not actually have problems with the pregnancy
-the woman had blood clots and had a stroke
-the woman then had a massive heart attack that killed her
-the unborn children died because the mother died of a stroke and heart attack
-the hospital did not kill the unborn twins , the mother's poor health did
-the unborn twins were not persons under the law anyway
 

Selene

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Foreigner said:
This doesn't seem quite right when you consider that the Catholic Church believes life begins at birth and that Catholic Hospitals and Colleges believe they should be exempt from the Obama Healthcare mandate due to their Catholic beliefs.

One also needs to take into account that in CA, if a man murders a pregnant woman, he is charged with two counts of homicide, not one.
http://www.lifenews.com/2009/06/05/state-4210/



Curious....


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/25/bizarre-catholic-hospital-argues-that-7-month-old-fetuses-arent-persons-in-wrongful-death-legal-battle/

Catholic Hospital Argues That 7-Month-Old Fetuses Aren’t ‘Persons’ in Wrongful-Death Legal Battle

A Catholic hospital in Cañon City, Colo., is facing intense scrutiny for arguing that fetuses aren’t people in the midst of defending itself against a malpractice claim, according to The Colorado Independent. Naturally, this opinion is pointedly bizarre considering the Catholic Church’s intense pro-life stance — one that argues that life begins at the moment of conception. The legal battle between the family of Lori Stodghill, a woman who died at the hospital back in 2006, and Catholic Health Initiatives (CHI), an organization that owns St. Thomas More hospital, led to what can only be described as a curious and troubling defense.
The 31-year-old woman was pregnant with twins on New Year’s Day in 2006 when she sought urgent medical assistance. When she arrived at the hospital, Stodghill was vomiting and short of breath, sustaining a clogged artery and a massive heart attack. While medical practitioners attempted to resuscitate her, they were unsuccessful and the doctor on call purportedly never answered a page seeking medical assistance. The twins died after Stodghill passed away — just one hour after arriving at St. Thomas More.
AP.jpg
Photo Credit: AP

The woman’s husband, Jeremy, filed a wrongful-death lawsuit in the wake of the incident, claiming that the doctor on call should have responded. Had there been additional medical coordination, he believes his unborn children might have been saved. While an expert testified that the mother’s life likely couldn’t have been spared, had the doctor been on hand and ordered a cesarean section, the individual agreed that the twins might still be alive today.

The Colorado Independent explains more details about the CHI and the curious defense that the organization has given against Jeremy’s claims (emphasis added):
According to the Independent, Jason Langley, a lawyer representing the defense, argued in a brief that the court that the case should consider that “the term ‘person,’ as is used in the Wrongful Death Act, encompasses only individuals born alive” (emphasis added). The brief goes on to say that Colorado law recognizes a “person” as someone who has been “born alive” and that the family’s claim cannot possibly stand, because the wrongful death lawsuit is “based on two unborn fetuses.”
So far, Jeremy has not had much luck avenging his wife’s death, as judgements have gone in favor of CHI. Lawyers for the family have appealed to the state’s Supreme Court, where they hope to, again, have the case heard. The court is slated to decide whether to hear the legal battle in the next few weeks. Regardless of what happens, CHI’s lawyers utilizing the “fetus” argument appears extremely contradictory, specifically when considering the Catholic Church’s powerful and prevalent pro-life stance.
Actually, it was never the Catholic hospital who stated that fetuses are not persons. It was the hospital's lawyers that made that statement. The title of your article is very misleading. If people only look at the title and did not read the entire article, they would go away thinking that it was the Catholic hospital who made the statement when in fact it was the lawyers who made that statement. The lawyer made that statement in accordance to State Law.....not according to Catholic doctrine. According to the article you posted it stated:

According to the Independent, Jason Langley, a lawyer representing the defense, argued in a brief that the court that the case should consider that “the term ‘person,’ as is used in the Wrongful Death Act, encompasses only individuals born alive” (emphasis added). The brief goes on to say that Colorado law recognizes a “person” as someone who has been “born alive” and that the family’s claim cannot possibly stand, because the wrongful death lawsuit is “based on two unborn fetuses.”

According to State law, the term "person" is defined as "only individuals born alive." The lawyer was citing State law rather than Church doctrine, which states that human life begins at conception. The lawyer pointed out that a wrongful death suit cannot stand because the wrongful death suit is based on two unborn fetuses, which state law does not recognize as "persons."

According to another article on the subject:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attorneys representing a Catholic hospital in Colorado appear to be going against church doctrine to avoid a wrongful death lawsuit.

Jeremy Stodghill is suing St. Thomas More Hospital because his wife Lori Stodghill and the couple's unborn twins died in 2006 at the medical facility in Canon City, Colorado. Stodghill's attorneys claim his wife and unborn children were victims of negligence, and the hospital is at fault for the fetuses dying because there was no effort to perform an emergency Cesarean section.

Court documents filed by Stodghill's attorneys say his wife died after going into cardiac arrest, and there was no attempt to try to deliver the twins.
The wrongful death case was filed in 2007, and an appeals court recently agreed with the hospital, dismissing all the claims.
Stodghill is appealing that ruling to the Colorado Supreme Court.

The hospital's lawyers are arguing that, legally, fetuses aren't people.

Their argument boils down to this: Under Colorado law, a fetus is not a person, and the plaintiff's claims for wrongful death should therefore be dismissed. This argument contradicts the church's teachings that life begins at conception.

The Archdiocese of Denver has released a statement saying the company that runs the hospital, Catholic Health Initiatives, has assured the archdiocese that it intends to "observe the moral and ethical obligations of the Catholic Church."

The statement goes on to say, "The Catholic bishops of Colorado are not able to comment on the legal disputes. However, we will undertake a full review of this litigation, and policies and practices of Catholic Health Initiatives to ensure fidelity and faithful witness to the teachings of the Catholic Church."

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/01/25/attorneys-catholic-hospital-argue-fetuses-arent-people
 

Rex

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That's really funny Selene, who do you suppose hired the lawyer?
Catholic heads have for years used the same technique to wash their hands, similar to Ponces Pilot.
You don't think the heads of the RCC weren't notified of the direction the lawyer was going to take to defend the hospitals money.

I came that close to adding in my post above that this was was going to be the Catholics justification of the handling of the case.
Its always the same, management is never accountable for the actions of its vested subordinates in this case or any other including the cover up of any illegal actions, been that way for many years.

Just when was the last time the Vatican admitted to wrong doing. Heaven forbid the holy office receive the stain of mortality.
Big business operates in the same fashion, simply roll out the fall guy LOL.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Twisted truth to save ones neck is clearly called lying, deception, manipulation. When you send someone to represent you they should be in line with what you believe and that is why the church is supposed to stay away from being involved with the ungodly especially in a court of law. Satan's legal system is that the winner is he who tells the best story(rather truth or not) or has the right amount of money to blind the judge or sway the verdict.
God's legal system is TRUTH, for truth is all that matters in the end and nothing escapes God's roaming eyes.
The first thing the church or a member of Christ should do in any legal situation is to seek God in prayer and plead their case befor Him, for He is the JUDGE that we must please, not man who can be bribed, blinded, seduced, manipulated, pressured,black mailed, or any number of fleshly frailty.
A child is a human being at the point of conception according to God's Word. In fact as a born again child of God by the Seed/Christ/Word of God in the womb of our mother heavenly Jerusalem according to scripture, we to are growing in her womb if we abide in Christ and do not fall away/abort our process. While we are not full term yet, we keep seeking God to comform us into the likeness of His dear Son until the day that we are birthed in Rev 12:5. But we are considered a child of God not just a blob, but a clay vessel that God is molding to His good pleasure.
Luke 1:41-44
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
KJV
2 Sam 11:5
5 And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child.
KJV
Gen 25:23-24
23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
KJV





Gal 1:15-16



15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb{SPIRITUAL BIRTH}, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
KJV
Ps 139:12-16
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members{BODY OF CHRIST} were written{LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE}, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
KJV
 

soupy

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As I already said, the defendant chooses their line of defense.

I know the insured party (hospital) subrogates their rights to their insurance provider, but again the hospital contracts with the insurance provider of their choice.

You know, the buck stops there...
 

aspen

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So how is the fundamentalist protestant compulsion for disavowing church any less of a dodge for taking responsibility for the sins found within the body of believers? seems to me to be an exercise in hand washing, denial, and adam blaming eve all rolled into one; all top off with pointing out the speck in your catholic borther and sisters eye.......

offly convient to dodge all responsibility for institutional sin by pretending that 'real Christians' would never engage in that behavior and than invoking Christ's warnings aboiut man's traditions. the cost of course is to trade sanctification and growth in love for the seat of mockers.........therefore, I will leave you all to your Fruit - keep munching away in your self righteous satisfaction - and don't worry, your bases are covered - blame eve and disavow yourself - a geniune practice of the fundamentals......
 

Foreigner

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Typical Aspen. Nothing of value to say on the specific topic so it becomes time to deflect and try to put someone ELSE in the spotlight.
Another pathetic whine-by.

As a Catholic hospital you can't claim to be exempt from Obamacare's requirements for birth control and access to abortion because of your adherence to your Catholic beliefs and then turn around and pretend those beliefs aren't applicable because they could prove expensive.

Try again.
 

aspen

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i acknowledge and deal with all of the good and bad things in my church, Foreigner. How about you? Oh right, why do i bother asking such a silly question - you time is being taken up by your exposes of the Catholic church.

Munch, munch, munch...........
 

Foreigner

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You prove my point again. Instead of addressing the topic you try to change it to be about someone else.

You're a one-trick pony, and a bad one at that.
 

Selene

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Typical hatefilled people. They can't even see that the lawyer was citing State Law instead of Church doctrine. It does not even matter who they hire. The FACT is Colorado's state law does say that a "person" is defined as one who is already born. So, whoever they hire is going to go into a secular court and state secular law.

The only one who twisted things around are the ones who did not even bother to read the article and put up a false front that it was the Catholic hospital who stated such thing, when it was never the case.
 

aspen

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The topic is that people are hypocritical - that is always your point, Foreigner. what more is there to say about the obvious? based on your fixation over this rudimentary charateristic of human nature, i think you many be the only person here who hasn't been able to accept it as reality. in that case, may i reccomend growing up?

i will let you have the last word, as i await your next 'GOTCHA!' piece.......'BREAKING NEWS: Sun to Rise in the East.....'
 

Foreigner

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The article states specifically that it is the "Catholic Health" lawyers that are stating the fetuses are not human. Does the hospital say they are wrong? No.

And Aspen you would know all about hypocrisy......

You say you are Catholic but you support gay marriage even though the Catholic church opposes it and you Pope says it will lead to the destruction of society and mankind.

You yourself have said on this board that you support abortion on request even though the Catholic church opposes it on the grounds that it is murder.

And you have spoken here about the credibility of the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas - the one that says Jesus murdered two of His playmates when He was a child, struck a number of adults blind, and is quoted as saying scores of things not found d in the actual Gospels in the Bible - even though the Catholic church has denounced it as false.

Hypocrisy Grande'
 

Selene

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Foreigner said:
The article states specifically that it is the "Catholic Health" lawyers that are stating the fetuses are not human. Does the hospital say they are wrong? No.
And why should they even say anything??? The lawyer has a job to do, so why not let the lawyer do his job??
 

Foreigner

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Selene said:
And why should they even say anything??? The lawyer has a job to do, so why not let the lawyer do his job??
Great idea. Let the lawyers put forth the idea that the Catholic Hospital doesn't really support Catholic beliefs. Brilliant.
That will pretty much negate their claim to exemption to Obamacare's mandate on birth control and abortion access.
Nice....