Thou shalt not Lie

[smitharbie]

(Kahtre;65504)
Jordan,I do see where you are coming from. Ok lets say I was in that situation where someone wanted to murder my friend and wanted to know where they are and would hurt me if I did not tell them. What would I do? I would not tell them. And I would tell them why I will not tell them. But I don't think I would lie about it. Now you are right in that I would not tell them the truth about where they are, I would tell them nothing. "I used to think like you do as an Atheist. I can understand why rumour / lying is whenever appropiately to protect one's love."I'm not sure I understand what you mean...I am going to pray about this and study the word tonight. Just thought about something....Now I think there is a story about a harlot that helps followers of Jesus escape, if I am correct I think she lied to the people that came looking for them and sent them looking the other way..... I'll have to read up on that. I think she also let down a red cord... out the window for them to go down and get away. She was the only one saved from God's wrath on that town, her and her family.I think we all agree though that lying just for the sake of lying is against God...am I right?But still I think that just lying to make someone feel good is not really right either.....:bible: Off to read.....
1 Kings 22:19-232 Chronicles 18:19-22Here's something interesting to consider. If God encouraged a spirit to lie in order to accomplish his purpose (he couldn't lie himself because God cannot lie), then apparently ??? the lie would only be evil if it was to accomplish evil instead of righteousness. (lines up pretty much with Jordan's post)

 

[Jordan]

(Kahtre;65577)
John 8:44 (King James Version) 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Alright, I got my prayer time and reading in, and I even had a conversation with my family about this. While doing that I think I got the answer I prayed for.Ok, yes we do lie to help people, we do kill to save people. But why do we do it? We are doing these things to stop killing, war, rape, beatings, torture.....all these things are of satan. Satan wants us to do these things. Satan loves that there are wars and that people have to kill, he loves that there are killers out there, and that we have to lie, kill and the Lord knows what else to try to save ourselves and others. HE LOVES IT. And we ARE put in positions to do them, and God knows our hearts. Sometimes I forget that this is NOT a perfect world, Jesus has not come yet. I know what is right, but in this world sometimes, right is wrong and wrong is right. Cedarhart says: to use "our intelligence and common sense". Bah! We have nothing without Christ. Our "intelligence" amounts to a hill of beans! In every situation we should go to God in prayer and submit our problems to him. Of course this is my perfect world again.....
That's not absolutely what my God says.Genesis 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man....Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace....Luke 22:35 - And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.What I'm saying is, our God allows us to defend ourselves. And that is common sense.

 

[cedarhart]

Jordan, You got it!Chrissy, You don't!

 

[chrissy]

Regardless of what you think it is what God approves of. Lying is completely unnecessary. Keeping your mouth shut is better than telling a lie. Why is it when someone asks you to speak you have to answer. When there is a gun to your head or life is threatened still no reason to lie. God is truth. No man can save himself or any but the Lord. God is just in all his doings. If you are in the situation in the first place, there is a reason. Seriously I can't utter this more.. KEEP THE TRUTH!! It shall set you free.

 

[Jordan]

(chrissy;65596)
Regardless of what you think it is what God approves of. Lying is completely unnecessary. Keeping your mouth shut is better than telling a lie. Why is it when someone asks you to speak you have to answer. When there is a gun to your head or life is threatened still no reason to lie. God is truth. No man can save himself or any but the Lord. God is just in all his doings. If you are in the situation in the first place, there is a reason. Seriously I can't utter this more.. KEEP THE TRUTH!! It shall set you free.
Then you have ignore God's Words. Do you really want to reject His instructions and not be corrected by Him? How do you explain these verses?I Kings 22:19 - And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.I Kings 22:20 - And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.I Kings 22:21 - And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.I Kings 22:22 - And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.I Kings 22:23 - Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee....II Chronicles 18:19 - And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.II Chronicles 18:20 - Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?II Chronicles 18:21 - And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.II Chronicles 18:22 - Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

 

[cedarhart]

Chrissy,You have ignored all of God's Words regarding this subject. You cannot make up your own doctrine and sell it as truth. I very much love Father and want to delight Him. That's why I take His Word to heart and apply it to reality in my lifetime. He warned us about these days and man's character in II Tim. 3 If a murderer is harming me or my family in any way, it is not because God purposed it. It is due to the criminal's free will to choose his course of action. God loves me and ALL of His children and does not want them harmed. He protects. The entire Bible is a course on how to live our lives. It is obvious that you have never been in a traumatic situation such as war or abuse as you would use your knowledge more realistically as God intended. He wants us to be wiser than the serpent, not aid him. He has given more than ample examples of this and you ignore them all. Very sad that you pick and choose what to honor instead of honoring ALL of His Word to us.Cedarhart

 

[Alexa]

I think it depends on the situation this person is going through. God knows your heart and he will know exactly what your thinking when you commit your sin. If it is for a worldly gain then it's going to be harder to explain on judgement day. If it is something that will help someone somehow and it isn't a selfish thing going on, it may be easier to receive forgiveness for. Either way a lot of repentance and asking for forgiveness should be going on about this. I hope you made the decision to not lie. I know you will have greater peace here on earth if you did that. Either way no one here can judge you because that is trying to take away God's job and is a much greater sin than the one that might have been committed in the first place. God Bless

 

[Jordan]

(Alexa;65605)
I think it depends on the situation this person is going through. God knows your heart and he will know exactly what your thinking when you commit your sin. If it is for a worldly gain then it's going to be harder to explain on judgement day. If it is something that will help someone somehow and it isn't a selfish thing going on, it may be easier to receive forgiveness for. Either way a lot of repentance and asking for forgiveness should be going on about this. I hope you made the decision to not lie. I know you will have greater peace here on earth if you did that. Either way no one here can judge you because that is trying to take away God's job and is a much greater sin than the one that might have been committed in the first place. God Bless
Alexa, God encouraged a lying spirit for His righteousness, so therefore lying itself is NOT a sin. It's the reason behind it that can make it a sin.

 

[Tman]

(chrissy;65320)
This would be a pre-meditated lie. You know you are going to. Quote : "Don't beat your self up over something not only you but everyone in this world has failed to NOT do, If anyone has ever told you that he/she has never lied, then they have already commited the act of lying, just don't make a habit of it and ask Gods forgivness when you do lie." This here...PATHETIC! KEEP THE TRUTH! Knowingly lieing is NOT AT ALL good. Thinking God will forgive you right after, and Him seeing you know not to lie. Well, remember God does have anger. You want Him with you and not against you. God is Truth and the devil is the father of lies.
Question in always tell the truth. If your home was invaded and your family was hiding out would you tell the intruders their whereabouts?

 

[Jordan]

Not to mention, I forget to say this. God does NOT want us to follow Him with a dumb mind. That means, He doesn't want us to follow Him if we are not allowed to use our mind and common sense. To think that cometh in the ways of Satan.

 

[Christina]

Some of the posts in this thread seem lack the simple common sense of the Lord, its quite amazing, God judges us by whats in our hearts if one lies to protect their family .. and thinks God is going to punish them is being foolish for one thing a simple forgive me Lord will cleanse one soul of any wrong doing or lie told .. For another our father doesnt punish us for protecting those we love from danger whether family or country it our duty ...reread post #26 by cedarhart for the right answer

 

[Kahtre]

Jordan,I know of those verses as well, and our God does say those things. The only thing I was saying is that there would be NO reason for it if there was no sin(no satan)."That's not absolutely what my God says.Genesis 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man....Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace....Luke 22:35 - And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.What I'm saying is, our God allows us to defend ourselves. And that is common sense."-Jordan---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"for one thing a simple forgive me Lord will cleanse one soul of any wrong doing or lie told .." -ChristinaChristina I think it would be wise not to write something like that. Being forgiven is a great gift, and it is free and yes it's simple to say it. But there are a lot of verses about sinning after you know what sin is...this is not a good thing. And people who are checking out the site might think it is ok to go out and do whatever and then just ask for forgiveness and everythings ok. Jesus died once for all our sins, we should not take it for granted.

 

[Jordan]

(Kahtre;65654)
Jordan,I know of those verses as well, and our God does say those things. The only thing I was saying is that there would be NO reason for it if there was no sin(no satan)."That's not absolutely what my God says.Genesis 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man....Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace....Luke 22:35 - And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.What I'm saying is, our God allows us to defend ourselves. And that is common sense."-Jordan---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"for one thing a simple forgive me Lord will cleanse one soul of any wrong doing or lie told .." -ChristinaChristina I think it would be wise not to write something like that. Being forgiven is a great gift, and it is free and yes it's simple to say it. But there are a lot of verses about sinning after you know what sin is...this is not a good thing. And people who are checking out the site might think it is ok to go out and do whatever and then just ask for forgiveness and everythings ok. Jesus died once for all our sins, we should not take it for granted.
It is unwise for Christina to say that? It's clearly documented in the bible so in effect you are saying it is unwise to preach the Truth of God's Words. And when we say Truth, we don't take anything at all for granted, Never and ever.BTW, on the next "Earth and Heaven" which is the Final Earth Age we will have none of those things as Satan and his wicked children will not exist anymore.

 

[Christina]

(Kahtre;65654)
Jordan,I know of those verses as well, and our God does say those things. The only thing I was saying is that there would be NO reason for it if there was no sin(no satan)."That's not absolutely what my God says.Genesis 9:6 - Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man....Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace....Luke 22:35 - And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.What I'm saying is, our God allows us to defend ourselves. And that is common sense."-Jordan---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------"for one thing a simple forgive me Lord will cleanse one soul of any wrong doing or lie told .." -ChristinaChristina I think it would be wise not to write something like that. Being forgiven is a great gift, and it is free and yes it's simple to say it. But there are a lot of verses about sinning after you know what sin is...this is not a good thing. And people who are checking out the site might think it is ok to go out and do whatever and then just ask for forgiveness and everythings ok. Jesus died once for all our sins, we should not take it for granted.
That isnt exactly what I said use your common sense here please.. I said if you lie to protect your family from harm. Ask and you will be forgiven ...you are reading into that that what I never said ..I never said nor implied any one should purposely go out an sin. If faced with a choice commiting a sin, of a lie to , to prevent harm to others God would forgive you. So what you think you would do better to protect yourself and let you family be harmed so you can claim hey I didnt sin..... you will be just as guilty for being part of the sin of the deed.

 

[Kahtre]

You are not understanding at all. "common sense".................. Ok not everyone in this world has been through what you have. We all go through different things, some people have been very sheltered(like myself). I haven't seen a whole lot of bad things, just lately I am finding out a lot I didn't know. Should someone talk to me like I'm crap because I'm just not using that perfect common sense that you have? Maybe you are not trying to be rude, but the tone of your writing tells me different. I don't feel like I'm talking with fellow sisters in Christ. I don't expect people to kiss my butt, but I don't expect people with no understanding whatsoever.I'm not going to be coming back on so you might as well hold off on the scolding. Truly I'm not angry, just sad,In Christ's love,Katie

 

[cedarhart]

Kahtre,Even though you are not "on" this right now, I just feel the need to explain further what's going on. You have not been treated like "crap". So far, you are the only one with antagonizing words such as that and "bah" and "rude". Several of your posts were defensive and somewhat adamantly opposed to even considering input.Having stated that, You are correct that one should never have to "lie". "Should" being the operative word. However, there is evil that we must oppose and "be wiser than the serpent". Christians are NOT doormats and God has given us many, many examples of where coercion was necessary. Not just man using it but God who led the way in examples. I have to digest Scripture as a way of life and follow the examples that God gave us to live by.No one who is mentally healthy, would LIE just for the sake of it. It is wrong all the way! Absolutely! But evading the enemy when in times of trouble for another or one's own protection is common sense and humanly natural. A person should never aid the enemy. God gives excellent situations as examples for us to follow where tactics of coercion MUST be utilized. Otherwise, the enemy rolls right over us. Malicious lies are tools of the enemy and have to be dealt with accordingly. War and crime are psychological in nature. Information that is given in these situations is evaluated by the perpetrator and then he acts upon his decision. If we give this criminal information that misleads him into the arms of our allies such as police, others are spared from his evil acts. This is a very Godly thing to do; save others. One cannot be in the "foxhole" waving a flag to the enemy telling them that we're over here when they yell out to us. This is what's meant by common sense. Just as you don't surrender anyone to the enemy as that is betraying them and their lineage if they are killed. You become a partaker in the crime.For myself, I posted 7 examples straight from Scripture verifying this and there were so many more that I only chose 7. You didn't not deny or comment on them. Scripture cannot be skipped over when it's convenient. The world is not perfect and neither is common sense, as you eluded to. If man were perfect, we wouldn't even need to be here at all. So, not even the angels in the first age were perfect either.But we must give it our best attempt to procede in life to follow God's decisions and try to understand and learn from them. The Bible is our textbook to follow and implement. God wants us to be strong for Him and that's one reason why Jesus stated not to be "leukwarm". Take a stand for what's right! Taking a stand is not giving in to passivity and compliance to evil's demands. We are Spiritual warriors for God and I don't want to let Him down.So please do not misunderstand that anyone is condoning LYING. Never will you see a true child of God do that. But that is completely meant for malicious and self beneficial purposes. Another example would the wealthy. There's nothing wrong with being rich! But, if one achieved it by lying and backstabbing, then one has been bearing false witness and the "gains were ill gotten". God will measure and weigh this person for their lies and deceit. Woe to them. Again though, this is not what some of us are trying to portray when we stated to use coercion against the enemy which includes deleting important information, giving abstract answers or misleading ones, all in order to protect and defend one's safety, reputation, property, or even life. Look at it this way, maybe; it's a non-violent way to fight back and defend. That's good, right? The goal is to mislead for self-preservation and not to be malicious and harmful for one's own self-gratification and gain.I hope this helps a little more in understanding our points regrading "lying". A better word perhaps would be using rumors or delusions for what needs to be accomplished for God.Very Sincerely,Cedarhart