To @DNB concerning the Deity of Christ...

[justbyfaith]

Why does it not strike you as odd that you profess that Jesus was the same being that created him,

Consider John 1:1-3, especially verse 3...

Jhn 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That Jesus is the Word is evident in John 1:14; and here we see that without Him nothing was made that was made.

Therefore if Jesus was made, He made Himself.

And it is true to a certain extent (see Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11), that His physical human body that He became was created by Him for His indwelling as the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

I believe that the word of God calls on you to believe what to the carnal or natural mind is foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:13-14).

It is a matter of walking by faith and not by sight (Hebrews 11:6, 2 Corinthians 5:7).

 

[DNB]

Definition of non sequitur

1: an inference (see INFERENCE sense 1) that does not follow from the premises (see PREMISE entry 1 sense 1)specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative (see AFFIRMATIVE entry 1 sense 3) proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent (see CONSEQUENT entry 1 sense 1)
2: a statement (such as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously saidWe were talking about the new restaurant when she threw in some non sequitur about her dog.

Luke 1:37 is definitely not a non-sequitur; and neither was 1 Corinthians 1:18-25.

Yes they were, you were making conclusive remarks that had not be warranted at that point. Mutually, you took a warning out of context. Either way, both quotes were invalid, inappropriate and irrelevant.

 

[DNB]

Consider John 1:1-3, especially verse 3...

Jhn 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That Jesus is the Word is evident in John 1:14; and here we see that without Him nothing was made that was made.

Therefore if Jesus was made, He made Himself.

And it is true to a certain extent (see Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11), that His physical human body that He became was created by Him for His indwelling as the Father.

Man oh man, have you lost your flippin' marbles?
How in the flippin' world does it bring hope to man by having the Father raise himself from the dead, or what judicial soundness is there in having the Father obey himself unto perfection, which includes loving himself with all his heart.
God did not propitiate Himself, nor exalt Himself to His right-hand side.

Stop your diabolical and blasphemous nonsense!

 

[Truman]

God says, " I Am."

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes they were, you were making conclusive remarks that had not be warranted at that point. Mutually, you took a warning out of context. Either way, both quotes were invalid, inappropriate and irrelevant.

No, they weren't.

 

[justbyfaith]

Man oh man, have you lost your flippin' marbles?
How in the flippin' world does it bring hope to man by having the Father raise himself from the dead, or what judicial soundness is there in having the Father obey himself unto perfection, which includes loving himself with all his heart.
God did not propitiate Himself, nor exalt Himself to His right-hand side.

Stop your diabolical and blasphemous nonsense!

The scribes and Pharisees thought that Jesus was blaspheming, also (John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33).

 

[DNB]

The scribes and Pharisees thought that Jesus was blaspheming, also (John 8:58-59, John 10:30-33).

And Jesus accused the Pharisees of blasphemy (Matthew 12:22-24), what's your point?
Non-sequitur #3

 

[Enoch111]

non sequitor

This whole thread is a non-sequitur [correct spelling] addressed to an individual.

 

[dev553344]

And that's it, you found two implicit, at best, passages, and have completely ignored everything that I said earlier.
And these two passages, for starters, are meant to substantiate the most incomprehensible doctrine in all of Christendom?
No one denies the existence of the Father (God), Son (pre-eminent creation), Holy Spirit (gift from God to impower the elect). This, by no means, makes them all God.
You are unfamiliar with the principle of spiritual oneness in the Bible? Man and his wife shall become one, King David and Jonathan became one, Jesus told all his disciples to become one in the same manner the he and the Father are one.

DW, excuse me, but, you have to see how absolutely absurd you just sounded. You didn't even come with 100 miles in refuting a single thing that I said. Therefore, I will hold back from divulging anything further, until I see a bit more seriousness or competence from you. i don't mean to sound arrogant or harsh, but please appreciate why I'm taking this stance right now.

I don't think anyone else thinks I sound absurd. You use the word absurd a lot. Which is strange. But more to reality is the fact that you don't appear to accept the New Testament. You sound like an old testament person. The fact that you will not state what your faith is is curious. You don't sound Christian to me. So what is your faith?

But it is good to get to know everyone's beliefs so that when we converse I will understand why you will say the things you say. Thanks. And may God bless you!

 

[Taken]

The utter redundancy that is elicited when one claims that there are three all powerful entities within the godhead, is incriminating in itself.

Not sure how you concluded, 3 all powerful entities.

You send your word to this forum, and have yourself, exercised your Authority, and selected the "NAME" "DNB", for your word to be called ON this forum...

So then every person who reads your word, that you named DBN....
should presume-you are called- DBN, by every person you know?
Should presume- you do not have:
A Body,
A soul,
A spirit,
A source of power? (Muscles, voice box, )

And IF "you do", and give any one of those things "another Name", that "somehow Makes You" multiple men?

The utter insanity that proceeds from a trinitarian's mouth when trying to explain what a trinity is.

A TRINITY -
is Tri- 3
is United- unity

The Names, Titles, Descriptions OF God...
All revolve and Land...ON ONE Heavenly God, Creator and Maker.

• It is Gods Will, thought, ideas, that is Referenced, as God, Yahweh, Father, LORD, Holy, Spirit, etc.
• It is Gods Word, spoken, written, comes forth out from God while remaining IN God, is referenced, as Son, Jesus, Lord, Spirit, Holy, etc.
• It is Gods Power that comes forth out from God while remaining IN God, is referenced, as Light, Almighty, Holy, Christ, etc.

It matters Not, how many Names, Titles, Descriptions God Himself has elected to be a Reference TO :
Gods WILL, Gods WORD, Gods POWER...
It is a reference TO the Same ONE God

• OT men, who Believed IN God...As well believed in His Word and His Power.
( They understood ONE God, His Will, His Word, His Power )

• NT men, were given MORE knowledge...
Gods WORD...has a Name, Titles, Descriptions.
Gods POWER...has a Name, Titles, Descriptions.

• A man Learning new Knowledge, Did NOT Change God...it Changed A man's Knowledge About God.

Gods WILL, WORD, POWER, are all "highlighted", " Outstanding", attributes OF One....Lord God Almighty.

It is NOT three entities, three Gods, three Wills, three Words, three Powers...
It is One God, revealing His Knowledge, about Himself, IN a manner He Chose.

You can God through the Scriptures, and find the Repeated references...
To Gods Will, Gods Word, Gods Power.

You can start at the Beginning of Scripture:
God CREATED -
His Will revealed-
His Spirit MOVED
His Power revealed-
He SAID
His Word Came forth out from Him.

Everything God Accomplishes...is always BY:
His Will, His Word, His Power.
Always, is His Will, Word, Power in Unity, in Agreement, in Truth.

And the Big Picture IS; God has provided mankind a WAY, to be IN Gods Likeness, in unity with Gods Will, Word, Power.

There is a Scripture...
He who is NOT With God, IS Against God.

If one Elects to NOT Wholly Be With God... the they become Wholly without God.

And now you tell me that you found Scripture that substantiates the doctrine of the trinity?

You search the NT. Look it up. It is called "a Better Testament." "Cup of the New Testament".
It reveals new Knowledge.
Once knowledge is revealed, and you heard it, you can not unhear it. You thus have no excuse.

You tell me, where Gods Will, Word, Power...IS not always together IN Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[07-07-07]

There are several other heterodox and cultic groups as well as false religions which also deny the deity of Christ.

1. Mormons have a different Jesus than Christians.
2. Jehovah's Witnesses flatly deny the deity of Christ.
3. Christian Science -- the same
4. Armstrongism
5. Christadelphians
6. Oneness Pentecostals
7. Unification Church
8. Unity School of Christianity
9. Scientology -- Dianetics
10. Judaism
11. Islam
12. Bahaism

Heretics deny Jesus' divinity, and no heretic will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[DNB]

This whole thread is a non-sequitur [correct spelling] addressed to an individual.

Agreed. I must admit that I just followed the link in my alerts, blindly. I took me a few posts to realize that this was an entirely new thread. This whole OP is extremely inappropriate to be addressed just to me, and a non-sequitur from where this topic originated.

...but, I don't mind the opportunity to express my beliefs, and denounce what I believe to be a blatant heresy.

 

[DNB]

I don't think anyone else thinks I sound absurd. You use the word absurd a lot. Which is strange. But more to reality is the fact that you don't appear to accept the New Testament. You sound like an old testament person. The fact that you will not state what your faith is is curious. You don't sound Christian to me. So what is your faith?

But it is good to get to know everyone's beliefs so that when we converse I will understand why you will say the things you say. Thanks. And may God bless you!

You're deviating from where your initial response to me originated. I laid out some fundamental and irrefutable contentions about the absurd and subversive doctrine of the trinity. As in all trinitarian argumentation, the adherents always insist on drawing their opponents down a rabbit hole, incompetently refusing to address the more fundamental, and thus, critical, issues.
So, sorry DW, I have explicitly and emphatically stated my beliefs on countless other threads, and so I am under no obligation to recite them here. This thread is about a refutation of the absurd and diabolical doctrine of the trinity.
Please address my critique, and we can discuss each others convictions another time. It is enough to know that I am not trinitarian, and reject any deification of any entity or being other than God, the Father. And that, Jesus Christ, who was 200% human, is God's Messiah and mankind's saviour, currently seated at the right-hand side of God.

 

[DNB]

Not sure how you concluded, 3 all powerful entities.

Well, I'm sorry Taken, I'm not sure how you cannot perceive from where or how I concluded '3 all powerful entities'?
If, according to the non-sensible trinitarian theology, Jesus is God, the holy Spirit is God, and the Father is God, then why does the point to my remark '3 all powerful entities', elude you?

Listen, in regard to your other statements, if you're going to dwell on, or play games with, the number 3, then maybe it's a calculator that you need, not a Bible, in order to enlighten you on the implausibility of the premise of '3 in 1' or '1 in 3' - or the two diametrically opposed natures of Christ?

I laid out some fundamental and incontestable Biblical principles, that undermine the validity of the trinitarian doctrine, feel free to address them, if you can?

 

[dev553344]

You're deviating from where your initial response to me originated. I laid out some fundamental and irrefutable contentions about the absurd and subversive doctrine of the trinity. As in all trinitarian argumentation, the adherents always insist on drawing their opponents down a rabbit hole, incompetently refusing to address the more fundamental, and thus, critical, issues.
So, sorry DW, I have explicitly and emphatically stated my beliefs on countless other threads, and so I am under no obligation to recite them here. This thread is about a refutation of the absurd and diabolical doctrine of the trinity.
Please address my critique, and we can discuss each others convictions another time. It is enough to know that I am not trinitarian, and reject any deification of any entity or being other than God, the Father. And that, Jesus Christ, who was 200% human, is God's Messiah and mankind's saviour, currently seated at the right-hand side of God.

Then there are scriptures that describe God:

Pay special attention to the "Word" as it is important in these passages. It spells out who "The Word" is, it is the son of the Father:

John 1:14

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Also Thomas called him God:

John 20:27-28

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Now with something so blatantly obvious, how is it that you deny these passages.

And BTW, I don't see that you have proven in scripture that Jesus isn't God, but the passages above prove that he is God.

 

[DNB]

Then there are scriptures that describe God:

Pay special attention to the "Word" as it is important in these passages. It spells out who "The Word" is, it is the son of the Father:

John 1:14

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Also Thomas called him God:

John 20:27-28

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Now with something so blatantly obvious, how is it that you deny these passages.

Sorry, this is the 'No Rabbit Hole' zone. Please address the author's fundamental contentions before digressing towards less substantial material. For such an approach, will reveal a competency and sincerity on the part of the one making the rebuttal.

 

[dev553344]

Sorry, this is the 'No Rabbit Hole' zone. Please address the author's fundamental contentions before digressing towards less substantial material. For such an approach, will reveal a competency and sincerity on the part of the one making the rebuttal.

No thanks, this is pointless, and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who makes it their point to be offensive.

 

[DNB]

No thanks, this is pointless, and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who makes it their point to be offensive.

...makes it a point to be practical, DW.
Sorry for the impatience, but I did stipulate what I felt was necessary to refute the position, or what I was willing to respond to.
This is crucial DW, the whole case for my position will lose its value, as in any thesis, if the main fundaments of the argument are not acknowledged nor addressed. Because, I believe that, for the most part, I precluded the necessity to address such isolated verses, when the over-arching principles that I stated, deny and undermine any notion that implies or infers a contrarian view.

 

[Truman]

Once again, God says, "I am."