Tough Texts for Calvinists

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Nancy

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I would say inanutshell...WISDOM.

Meaning:
There is always something new a man may elect to choose/try.
Wisdom is being able to acknowledge the results of failure, negative results of another that have tried before you.

A babe may swirl their fingers in paint, taste it, like it, and think swirling their fingers in poop would be just as likable.

In all things there is no failure IN the Lord God...we know that, and all the while God knows the curious minds of men.

A man Who HAS Committed to the Lord God...( and I have heard your own testimony)...HAS NO more "Option" to fall short With God...it is the man himself WHO has freely acquiesced his own power to be KEPT IN and WITH the Lord God, By "His Power."

Will we make dumb decisions? Sure, we are not all knowing. Will we ever again fall short with the Lord God? No. We gave Him authority to KEEP us ... and He is Faithful to do so.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Enoch,
God's standard is perfection. I fall short of that daily in one sense or another. We strive to obtain perfection but, I have not reached it, have you?
Not sure I recall ever stating I reached perfection in any testimony of mine.
In Him,
Nancy
 

Taken

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Hi Enoch,
God's standard is perfection. I fall short of that daily in one sense or another. We strive to obtain perfection but, I have not reached it, have you?
Not sure I recall ever stating I reached perfection in any testimony of mine.
In Him,
Nancy

Nope, don't recall you saying you having reached Perfection, but do believe you have established your standing WITH and in the Lord God.

I have no credit to claim I have reached Perfection; however I believe He has "Perfected" me IN Him, as Acceptable to Him.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Joseph77

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I would say inanutshell...WISDOM.
worthychristianlibrary.com/john-wesley/a-plain-account-of-christian-perfection/chapter-4-perfection-in-this-life/
"

Chapter 4 – Perfection in this Life
.....
And so does the preface, which, as it is short, it may not be amiss to insert entire :

Perhaps the general prejudice against Christian perfection may chiefly arise from a misapprehension of the nature of it. We willingly allow, and continually declare, there is no such perfection in this life as implies either a dispensation from doing good, and attending all the ordinances of God; or a freedom from ignorance, mistake, temptation, and a thousand infirmities necessarily connected with flesh and blood.

(2) First, we not only allow, but earnestly contend, that there is no perfection in this life which implies any dispensation from attending all the ordinances of God; or from doing good unto all men while we have time, though “especially unto the household of faith.” We believe that not only the babes in Christ, who have newly found redemption in His blood, but those also who are “grown up into perfect men,” are indispensably obliged, as often as they have opportunity, to “eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of Him,” and to “search the Scriptures,” by fasting, as well as temperance, “to keep their bodies under, and bring them into subjection”; and, above all, to pour out their souls in prayer, both secretly, and in the great congregation.

‘(3) We, secondly, believe that there is no such perfection in this life as implies an entire deliverance, either from ignorance or mistake, in things not essential to salvation, or from manifold temptations, or from numberless infirmities, wherewith the corruptible body more or less presses down the soul. We cannot find any ground in Scripture to suppose that any inhabitant of a house of clay is wholly exempt either from bodily infirmities, or from ignorance of many things; or to imagine any is incapable of mistake, or falling into divers temptations.


===============================================
‘.(4) But whom then do you mean by “one that is perfect?”

We mean one in “whom is the mind which was in Christ,” and who so “walketh as Christ also walked”; a man “that hath clean hands and a pure heart,” or that is “cleansed from all filthiness of flesh and spirit” : one in whom is “no occasion of stumbling,” and who accordingly “does not commit sin.” To declare this a little more particularly: We understand by that scriptural expression, “a perfect man,” one in whom God hath fulfilled His faithful word, “From all your filthiness and from all your idols I will cleanse you: I will also save you from all your uncleannesses.” We understand hereby, one whom God hath “sanctified throughout, in body, soul, and spirit”; one who “walketh in the light as He is in the light; in whom is no darkness at all: the blood of Jesus Christ His Son having cleansed him from all sin.”"
 

Nancy

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Agree..."MUDDY"...

Agree..."PHILOSOPHIES" of men!

Agree... ONE holds the ABSOLUTE TRUTH of Gods Knowledge AND the Understanding of His Knowledge...which IS:
The Lord God Almighty "Himself".

His WAY...is learning His Knowledge.
His Way...is His Understanding of His Knowledge.

His Knowledge is Freely Offered...Spoken, Written, Repeated, Spread across the World.

His Understanding is Given...BY Him to Those WHO have Elected to Yeild to Him, and Become Converted By Him.

Philosophies...of men, are of men who read And IN their OWN Carnal Mind Decide the "most LOGICAL" conclusion.

Gods Truth is Not Based on the Logical Conclusion of men's Carnal Minds.

In Fact: this is what Scripture says About the Carnal Mind and Philophicies of men and Truth and Trust and WHO to follow after.

1)
Rom 8:
[7] ...the carnal mind is enmity against God:

2)
Col 2:
[8] Beware lest any "man spoil you" through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

3)
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

4)
Prov 3:
[5] Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

5) (19 times Jesus said to "follow Him".
Matt. 8:
[22] ... Jesus said ..., Follow me;

Glory to God,
Taken

Kudos to you @Taken for taking on the TULIPS...yet again!
This subject just makes me cringe anymore, lol. It has been debated to death and nobody EVER even considers the very obvious scripture depicting free will, and are so stiffed necked and cemented in their own logical fallacies. This is such a circular argument IMHO but, good that you will still defend the truth :)
 
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Nancy

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Nope, don't recall you saying you having reached Perfection, but do believe you have established your standing WITH and in the Lord God.

I have no credit to claim I have reached Perfection; however I believe He has "Perfected" me IN Him, as Acceptable to Him.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

I can't argue with that... perfect verse, ty!
 
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Steve Owen

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* God OFFERS to All.
No!! only to those He elected and chosen (predestined) to salvation before the foundation of the world (John 13:18; 15:16) (John 6:44; 37)
I'm in agreement with much of your post, but I think I need to make one point. I make it as a firm believer in Definite Redemption and in all five points of Calvinism.
The Gospel goes out to all. Mark 1:15, "Repent and believe the good news,' is a genuine invitation to whomsoever will come. "The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). No one is ever going to repent and trust in Christ for salvation and then be told, "Sorry! You're not one of the elect; you can't come in!" Or, "Sorry! There's just not enough of Jesus' blood left to save you!"
No, no. The problem lies not in God's unwillingness to save (Ezekiel 19:23), but in sinners' unwillingness to come. 'And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men preferred darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil' (John 3:19). If God did not choose some for salvation, then no one would be saved.

But praise His name, God has chosen a vast crowd (Revelation 7:9-10) for salvation, 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace' (Ephesians 1:4-6). These are the ones for whom Christ suffered and died; He will lose none of those the Father has given Him to save (John 6:39), and those who hear the Gospel message and respond to it are those who have been chosen before time began, and drawn irresistibly to repent and believe the good news.
 

Nancy

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I'm in agreement with much of your post, but I think I need to make one point. I make it as a firm believer in Definite Redemption and in all five points of Calvinism.
The Gospel goes out to all. Mark 1:15, "Repent and believe the good news,' is a genuine invitation to whomsoever will come. "The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). No one is ever going to repent and trust in Christ for salvation and then be told, "Sorry! You're not one of the elect; you can't come in!" Or, "Sorry! There's just not enough of Jesus' blood left to save you!"
No, no. The problem lies not in God's unwillingness to save (Ezekiel 19:23), but in sinners' unwillingness to come. 'And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men preferred darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil' (John 3:19). If God did not choose some for salvation, then no one would be saved.

But praise His name, God has chosen a vast crowd (Revelation 7:9-10) for salvation, 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace' (Ephesians 1:4-6). These are the ones for whom Christ suffered and died; He will lose none of those the Father has given Him to save (John 6:39), and those who hear the Gospel message and respond to it are those who have been chosen before time began, and drawn irresistibly to repent and believe the good news.

"...and drawn irresistibly to repent and believe the good news."

Some come in kicking and screaming, yet have become spirit filled Christians. It hurts to peel the old man off.
 

JunChosen

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I'm in agreement with much of your post, but I think I need to make one point. I make it as a firm believer in Definite Redemption and in all five points of Calvinism.
The Gospel goes out to all. Mark 1:15, "Repent and believe the good news,' is a genuine invitation to whomsoever will come. "The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). No one is ever going to repent and trust in Christ for salvation and then be told, "Sorry! You're not one of the elect; you can't come in!" Or, "Sorry! There's just not enough of Jesus' blood left to save you!"
No, no. The problem lies not in God's unwillingness to save (Ezekiel 19:23), but in sinners' unwillingness to come. 'And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men preferred darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil' (John 3:19). If God did not choose some for salvation, then no one would be saved.

But praise His name, God has chosen a vast crowd (Revelation 7:9-10) for salvation, 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace' (Ephesians 1:4-6). These are the ones for whom Christ suffered and died; He will lose none of those the Father has given Him to save (John 6:39), and those who hear the Gospel message and respond to it are those who have been chosen before time began, and drawn irresistibly to repent and believe the good news.

We are in agreement. There is no difference between your post and my post #56. We get a bigger picture by combining the two posts.

To God Be The Glory
 
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