Two resurrections who they are

[Eric E Stahl]

You pretty much avoided answering the question: Will Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob be in the first resurrection?

[SIZE=10pt]Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven at His ascension. Psalms 68:18[/SIZE]KJV, Ephesians 4:8KJV

 

[veteran]

Let me give you another scripture so you want think I am taking one scripture
out of context. Rom. 8:23 says,

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits
of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our
adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Are you waiting eagerly for your adoption as a son, because Paul says, it will be
when God gives us redemption of our body? Our bodies will be changed and we
will not have sin in our members after God completes our redemption.

Paul used a whole chapter to explain the importance of the resurrections and why
it was needed to complete the Plan of God. 1st Cor. 15:12-19 says,

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from
the dead, how can some of you say that there is no
resurrection of the dead?
13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even
Christ has been raised.
14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is
useless and so is your faith.
15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses
about God, for we have testified about God that he raised
Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the
dead are not raised.
16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been
raised either.
17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you
are still in your sins.
18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be
pitied more than all men.

I think Paul makes it very clear that there will be a physical resurrection and we
know and understand that Jesus is our pattern for that resurrection. That's what
the whole Plan of God is all about. That is our hope (Rom. 8:23-24) and Jesus is
coming to fulfill that hope of a better life in the flesh.

Everything that God created was very good, but sin entered into the universe.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

The Romans 8:23 reference to what will be redeemed is about the "spiritual body" which Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15. It is not about a flesh body. The "spiritual body" is a physical body in that it can manifest in this physical world, just as the bodies of angels did when they manifested to God's saints on earth. Yet, it is not a 'flesh'... physical body, and that's the difference.

And when you intentionally leave off at 1 Cor.15:19 with your cut and paste of Scripture when there are 39 more verses after that by Apostle Paul which explain what I'm talking about, doing that shows you are not that honest.

The one Scripture no one can get around when honestly trying to understand about the resurrection in Rev.20 are the John 5:28-29 verses by our Lord Jesus.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


In those John 5:28-29 verses our Lord Jesus revealed 2 TYPES of resurrection will occur at His second coming, one for the just and one for the wicked. That automatically means no one is literally 'dead in the ground' waiting for the end of the "thousand years" of Rev.20. They are all there during Christ's "thousand years" reign.

In 1 Cor.15:23-28 Apostle Paul covers a bit of that also when he said that Christ must reign until He puts all enemies under His feet. The Rev.3:9 verse has a specific reference to that idea of Christ putting His enemies under His feet during His future thousand years reign with His elect. He told His elect there that He would make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and worship at their feet (meaning to worship Christ at the feet of His elect).

So then, if the wicked are still not raised for Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20, but only raised to stand at the Great White Throne Judgment that will occur after... the "thousand years", then how will those of the "synagogue of Satan" worship Christ at His elect's feet? And the "synagogue of Satan" truly represents the wickedest ("tares") of the wicked.

Some just aren't thinking, almost like when they begin to read a chapter in God's Word they tend to forget about the rest of God's Word which goes with it. Some do that forgetting intentionally, just so they can follow men's doctrines instead of God's Holy Writ as written.

 

[logabe]

The Romans 8:23 reference to what will be redeemed is about the "spiritual body" which Paul revealed in 1 Cor.15. It is not about a flesh body. The "spiritual body" is a physical body in that it can manifest in this physical world, just as the bodies of angels did when they manifested to God's saints on earth. Yet, it is not a 'flesh'... physical body, and that's the difference.

And when you intentionally leave off at 1 Cor.15:19 with your cut and paste of Scripture when there are 39 more verses after that by Apostle Paul which explain what I'm talking about, doing that shows you are not that honest.

The one Scripture no one can get around when honestly trying to understand about the resurrection in Rev.20 are the John 5:28-29 verses by our Lord Jesus.
John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)


In those John 5:28-29 verses our Lord Jesus revealed 2 TYPES of resurrection will occur at His second coming, one for the just and one for the wicked. That automatically means no one is literally 'dead in the ground' waiting for the end of the "thousand years" of Rev.20. They are all there during Christ's "thousand years" reign.

In 1 Cor.15:23-28 Apostle Paul covers a bit of that also when he said that Christ must reign until He puts all enemies under His feet. The Rev.3:9 verse has a specific reference to that idea of Christ putting His enemies under His feet during His future thousand years reign with His elect. He told His elect there that He would make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and worship at their feet (meaning to worship Christ at the feet of His elect).

So then, if the wicked are still not raised for Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20, but only raised to stand at the Great White Throne Judgment that will occur after... the "thousand years", then how will those of the "synagogue of Satan" worship Christ at His elect's feet? And the "synagogue of Satan" truly represents the wickedest ("tares") of the wicked.

Some just aren't thinking, almost like when they begin to read a chapter in God's Word they tend to forget about the rest of God's Word which goes with it. Some do that forgetting intentionally, just so they can follow men's doctrines instead of God's Holy Writ as written.

All power was given to Jesus in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18). What does that mean?

That means God manifested himself in flesh for the purpose of destroying the works of the
devil. He couldn't come as an angel to do this, he had to come as a man to qualify as a
kinsman redeemer. In other words, by dying @ the cross and being resurrected 3 days later,
he could make that statement of having all power, not just in heaven, but also in earth.

He now has the power to redeem his creation that was lost in the 1st Adam, but is reclaimed
in the Last Adam. What was the difference between power in the heavens and power in the
earth? Visible and invisible. God is invisible (1st Tim. 1:17), but Jesus was the Image of the
invisible God (Col. 1:15). That's why Jesus said, when you have seen me you have seen the
Father.

Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. In essence, Jesus brought
the invisible into the visible, so mankind could understand what the Purpose and Plan of God
was going to accomplish. The visible creation fell into futility until the Last Adam gained the
power back and now he is in the process of bringing the rest of the creation into the glorious
liberty of the Sons of God (Rom. 8:21).

When we say there is no physical resurrection, then we are rejecting the power that Jesus said
he now possesses. Until he became visible, his power consisted of only the invisible. In other
words, the only way he could gain back what Adam lost was to become a man or be made visible
to his creation.

Visibility is part of God's creation, but God according to his Law had to meet the requirements
of His Law, in order to satisfy the judgment, which is, death. How did he do it? God was manifested
in the flesh. God is manifesting himself in our flesh also. In the end, all flesh will become the new
creation that was spoken of by the prophets. After Jesus finishes cleansing the creation by destroying
death, he will then turn the Kingdom over to the Father (Spirit, invisible), and God shall be all in all.

At this point in history God's Plan doesn't look very good, but when the Sons of God are manifested
on the earth or (made visible to mankind through resurrection), everything will know and understand
that God rules all of His Creation.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[veteran]

All power was given to Jesus in heaven and on earth (Matt. 28:18). What does that mean?

That means God manifested himself in flesh for the purpose of destroying the works of the
devil. He couldn't come as an angel to do this, he had to come as a man to qualify as a
kinsman redeemer. In other words, by dying @ the cross and being resurrected 3 days later,
he could make that statement of having all power, not just in heaven, but also in earth.

He now has the power to redeem his creation that was lost in the 1st Adam, but is reclaimed
in the Last Adam. What was the difference between power in the heavens and power in the
earth? Visible and invisible. God is invisible (1st Tim. 1:17), but Jesus was the Image of the
invisible God (Col. 1:15). That's why Jesus said, when you have seen me you have seen the
Father.

Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. In essence, Jesus brought
the invisible into the visible, so mankind could understand what the Purpose and Plan of God
was going to accomplish. The visible creation fell into futility until the Last Adam gained the
power back and now he is in the process of bringing the rest of the creation into the glorious
liberty of the Sons of God (Rom. 8:21).

When we say there is no physical resurrection, then we are rejecting the power that Jesus said
he now possesses. Until he became visible, his power consisted of only the invisible. In other
words, the only way he could gain back what Adam lost was to become a man or be made visible
to his creation.

Visibility is part of God's creation, but God according to his Law had to meet the requirements
of His Law, in order to satisfy the judgment, which is, death. How did he do it? God was manifested
in the flesh. God is manifesting himself in our flesh also. In the end, all flesh will become the new
creation that was spoken of by the prophets. After Jesus finishes cleansing the creation by destroying
death, he will then turn the Kingdom over to the Father (Spirit, invisible), and God shall be all in all.

At this point in history God's Plan doesn't look very good, but when the Sons of God are manifested
on the earth or (made visible to mankind through resurrection), everything will know and understand
that God rules all of His Creation.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

You've gone way... off subject.

 

[logabe]

You've gone way... off subject.

The point I'm trying to make is... the whole gospel is about man being resurrected
from the grave. God enrobed himself in flesh for the purpose of redeeming mankind
by his own resurrection, showing how we would follow him into the promised land,
which is our bodies. Our bodies were made from the dust of the land, and Jesus has
promised to give us life and give it to us more abundantly by turning this mortal body
(a body made from the earth) into an immortal body that never dies.

Your promised land isn't a piece of real state in the middle east, it is your body that
will be changed by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. At the 2nd coming
of Joshua (Yashua), Jesus, as Joshua did in the Old Testament, will lead us into the
Promised Land of eternal life by raising us from the ground.

Will we have this same body? No... it will be a spiritual body with flesh and bone and it
will have the ability to be seen. We will also be able to go into the invisible by changing
our clothes or covering (Ezekiel 44:17). In essence, we will be just like Jesus when this
corruption puts on incorruption and this mortal puts on immortality.

The purpose of the resurrection of the body is to be seen. Where is Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob? They are in the unseen, but in the resurrection, we will be able to see them. At
this present time, they are waiting for their manifestation just like we are. They can't be
resurrected without us and we can't be resurrected without them (1st Thess.:15-17).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[veteran]

Logabe said:
"The point I'm trying to make is... the whole gospel is about man being resurrected


from the grave. God enrobed himself in flesh for the purpose of redeeming mankind
by his own resurrection, showing how we would follow him into the promised land,
which is our bodies. Our bodies were made from the dust of the land, and Jesus has
promised to give us life and give it to us more abundantly by turning this mortal body
(a body made from the earth) into an immortal body that never dies."


What about those in Christ still alive on earth at His coming? Those are not resurrected from the grave. So how will they be joined with the alseep brethren that are resurrected?

Look at the Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 Scripture. That defines our flesh body as being of one order, and our spirit as another order. Our flesh body is simply material matter made up from the earth. It is not... the REAL part of us.

If you believe God and His Heaven now exists behind a veil and that He is a Spirit like John said (John 4:24), then how can you only consider the existence of this material dimension only? Is God an alien then? with a material body in the Heavenly?

Per Paul in 2 Cor.12, exactly where did Paul's spirit go when he was "caught up" to the third heaven, to the Paradise of God? What is it that was actually "caught up", Paul's spirit, or his flesh body?

Either one truly beieves God's Word as written about the existence of two separate dimensions of existence, or they don't.

Your promised land isn't a piece of real state in the middle east, it is your body that
will be changed by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. At the 2nd coming
of Joshua (Yashua), Jesus, as Joshua did in the Old Testament, will lead us into the
Promised Land of eternal life by raising us from the ground.

You're totally... wrong... about that. The lands of promise God gave to Israel are the same... lands He promised to father Abraham. And they are... located in the middleast here on this earth. The earth is forever, as written (Ps.78:69). The difference is this earth is going to go through some changes for God's future Eternity. It will be cleansed of both man's filth and works, and brought back to how He originally created it in a Perfect state of glory (see Rom.8 about that release from bondage this earth has been in).

Will we have this same body? No... it will be a spiritual body with flesh and bone and it

will have the ability to be seen. We will also be able to go into the invisible by changing
our clothes or covering (Ezekiel 44:17). In essence, we will be just like Jesus when this
corruption puts on incorruption and this mortal puts on immortality.


We will put off this flesh body, either at flesh death, or at Christ's second coming. The wicked will too. Christ's future Milennium reign is not in flesh bodies, but in the spiritual body that Paul taught. Paul showed that spiritual body is the same thing as the "image of the heavenly", and it's pointing to the same kind of body the angels have. Even our Lord Jesus showed us that in Mark 12:25.

Christ's Milennial temple of Ezekiel 40 forward will be literal, established here on earth. It won't be invisible.

But who is that will 'put on immortality' at Christ's coming? Not the wicked. Paul's idea of putting on immortality in the Greek of 1 Cor.15 is about one's soul being made immortal not subject to the "second death" in the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign.

Like Paul's hope in Acts 24:15 that there will be both a resurrection of the just, AND... the unjust, I likewise have that hope, so that at least some of the wicked might be saved during Christ's Milennium reign. During that thousand years, the wicked will be in spiritual bodies though, but their soul part that's attached to their spirit or spiritual body, will still... be 'mortal', still subject to the "second death". That's the difference. Christ's coming Kingdom will be a spiritual type Kingdom manifested here on earth, both dimensions existing together in the same time and space (as it did before. When before you might ask? Keep to study in God's Word and you'll know by His Grace).