Uh oh... I am thinking again. .... about why we dont agree on most things

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Dear Rella,
Scripture tells us why most believers cannot come to the same understanding of God's Word. It is not because of different levels of intelligence, or wisdom, or length of time a person has been a believer or even what church denomination they attend. Mankind's individual abilities have nothing to do with it.

In Mark 8:15-25, Christ teaches how a person comes to a knowledge of the truth (the one and only truth).

Let's start with verses 15-21:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, HOW IS IT THAT YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language. This scripture below from Isaiah is "key" to understanding why new believers cannot understand God's Word:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before the disciples were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still carnally minded, spiritually blind and unconverted. They had a "measure of faith" but the spiritual teachings of Christ remained veiled. They simply had no ability to understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

Peter makes this statement because the believers to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

Joe

Good morning

HOW IS IT THAT YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

"2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, .........

You are missing my point.

From Jesus' own teachings they still did not understand...

Most everyone that ventures forward into forums such as these is not here to inquire for knowledge of specifics. And while all would, or should agree that Jesus is the reason.. there are different understanding on what that really means.... and will argue about it. Born again, baptism, faith should come natural but they
are not seen the same.

Most everyone is certain of his or her understanding. From the preterist, to the diehard Calvinist they are all correct.... in their own minds. I am certain you have your opinion of free will... but how many here will argue with you that you are wong. Also on the forbidden debate subject...

I myself see things with clear understanding and often when I point things out I get told how wrong I am and why... followed by someone else who will say to that respondent that both of us have it wrong.

We read the same words..... How can there be so many misunderstandings???????????????

 

[FaithWillDo]

HOW IS IT THAT YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?

Dear Rella,
I completely understood your post and answered your question as to why there are so many different understandings of God's Word.

I will restate my post below using additional scripture to make my answer clearer:

Everything that causes a believer to "be a believer" comes from Christ. That includes a person's confession of faith and their understanding of the Word. If a person believes otherwise, they are not hearing the words of Christ:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The question that Christ asked the apostles in Mark 8:21 is restated below and gives the answer to it in the same verse:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Only believers who have been weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts are going to understand the true teachings of Christ. Even then, it takes a lot of prayer, effort and searching to find the truth:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

So when is a believer drawn from the breasts and able to "receive" the words of Christ? Christ answers that question below:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer a babe who cannot understand), ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

A person is NOT converted until they have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. As Mark 8:15-25 shows, clear spiritual vision does not occur until the person has received the Latter Rain. The Latter Rain is a symbol used in the farming analogy and is not literal rain.

Water is the symbol for the Holy Spirit and it comes to a person as "Rain":

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.

So when were the Apostles converted? Was it when they first recognized that Jesus was the Christ and called Him "Lord"? No.

Here is what Christ tells Peter:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter was converted on the Day of Pentecost when He received the Latter Rain. That is when Peter became as a little child and was able to start learning the spiritual truths of the New Covenant. Until that time, Peter could not understand Christ's spiritual teachings - just as Mark 8:15-25 says.

So what does a new believer understand after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit?

They can only understand Christ "in the flesh", and as Paul says: "Christ and Him crucified". In other words, they can only understand the physical work and teachings of Christ that pertain to the Old Covenant and the cross. It is those teachings that a new believer can understand (see).

When a new believer tries to understand the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant, their near-sightedness causes their understanding to be blurred. Because it is blurred, each new believer (from their carnal nature & mind) will see the spiritual teachings of Christ differently.

The "confusion of languages" at the Tower of Babel represents the confusion of languages within the church. This has happened to the church because it was God's "will" and plan for it to happen. Read Isaiah 28:9-12 again, especially verse 12:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The scripture above explains why the church became apostate shortly after Paul's death. It happened because of the spiritual blindness of "babes" - believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit and are unconverted. Because of their blindness, Satan can come to them and snare & take them.

This is what Christ is teaching below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Joe

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Dear Rella,
I completely understood your post and answered your question as to why there are so many different understandings of God's Word.

I will restate my post below using additional scripture to make my answer clearer:

Everything that causes a believer to "be a believer" comes from Christ. That includes a person's confession of faith and their understanding of the Word. If a person believes otherwise, they are not hearing the words of Christ:

Then that would be a high percentage here. But then... who determines which is the correct belief?

Such as everything I write , theologically speaking, I believe I am guided by the Holy Spirit. So I am right... and the debaters are wrong... correct?

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The question that Christ asked the apostles in Mark 8:21 is restated below and gives the answer to it in the same verse:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Only believers who have been weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts are going to understand the true teachings of Christ. Even then, it takes a lot of prayer, effort and searching to find the truth:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

So when is a believer drawn from the breasts and able to "receive" the words of Christ? Christ answers that question below:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer a babe who cannot understand), ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

A person is NOT converted until they have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. As Mark 8:15-25 shows, clear spiritual vision does not occur until the person has received the Latter Rain. The Latter Rain is a symbol used in the farming analogy and is not literal rain.

Water is the symbol for the Holy Spirit and it comes to a person as "Rain":

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.

So when were the Apostles converted? Was it when they first recognized that Jesus was the Christ and called Him "Lord"? No.

Here is what Christ tells Peter:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Peter was converted on the Day of Pentecost when He received the Latter Rain. That is when Peter became as a little child and was able to start learning the spiritual truths of the New Covenant. Until that time, Peter could not understand Christ's spiritual teachings - just as Mark 8:15-25 says.

So what does a new believer understand after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit?

They can only understand Christ "in the flesh", and as Paul says: "Christ and Him crucified". In other words, they can only understand the physical work and teachings of Christ that pertain to the Old Covenant and the cross. It is those teachings that a new believer can understand (see).

When a new believer tries to understand the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant, their near-sightedness causes their understanding to be blurred. Because it is blurred, each new believer (from their carnal nature & mind) will see the spiritual teachings of Christ differently.

The "confusion of languages" at the Tower of Babel represents the confusion of languages within the church. This has happened to the church because it was God's "will" and plan for it to happen. Read Isaiah 28:9-12 again, especially verse 12:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

The scripture above explains why the church became apostate shortly after Paul's death. It happened because of the spiritual blindness of "babes" - believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit and are unconverted. Because of their blindness, Satan can come to them and snare & take them.

This is what Christ is teaching below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Then that would be a high percentage here. But then... who determines which is the correct belief?

Such as everything I write , theologically speaking, I believe I am guided by the Holy Spirit. So I am right... and the debaters are wrong... correct?

Dear Rella,
When a believer is converted, their spiritual blindness will be healed by the "Spirit of Truth" (Latter Rain). After it is healed, the "man of sin' will be revealed to them (2Thes 2:8) and they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15) that previously occurred with themselves.

Also, at that time, the natural sun will be darkened and the natural moon will be turned to blood. In other words, the believer will no longer receive their "light" (truth) from the natural world. Satan is representative of the natural sun and the believer's carnal nature is representative of the natural moon. The blood that covers the light of the natural moon is the blood of Christ that He shed for the New Covenant. In that way, the natural moon becomes a "new moon".

There will also be trumpets, thunder, lightning and earthquakes (all spiritual symbols for conversion) which signify the believer's new birth and their change from having a carnal paradigm to having a spiritual paradigm.

Also, during the conversion process, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (same as the Lord's Supper) will occur where Christ feeds His new bride the "truth (bread and New Wine) in the Kingdom of Heaven. After the believer has been fed sufficient nourishment, they will "see" that most of what they had thought was the truth of God was actually the lies of Satan. It is quite an earthshaking event within the believer.

After I was converted, I quickly learned that nearly every doctrine of orthodox Christianity was false. The whole loaf of bread that I had been consuming was fully leavened (Mat 13:33).

When a believer goes through the spiritual process of conversion, they will know it because of what I presented above (all related to having one's spiritual blindness healed). However, trying to convince unconverted believers of what you can now see is not possible because they remain blind. I learned a long time ago, a blind person cannot see no matter how much light you shine upon them. Until the Lord sends the Latter Rain to them and heals their blindness, they will only reject what you "see".

So you might ask, why do I present the truth of what the Lord has shown to me to the members of this forum when no one is able to understand it? The answer is simple, the Lord uses servants like me to present the truth to others who are in the process of being converted.

This scripture applies:

James 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The time in between when a person receives the Early Rain and the Latter Rain is the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought. When the Lord is ready to send the Latter Rain to one of His unconverted Elect, Christ will send a person to them in the spirit of Elijah who will make the Lord's pathway straight for Him to come to them. The work of Elijah is the work that the Lord has given to me to do and is why I am here on this forum.

These verses also apply to the time of Elijah's drought:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there hath been no Latter Rain (time of Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought); and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed (this is what we all become during the time of drought; an apostate believer/man of sin).

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance (Elect status), when it was WEARY (the believer was fallen away).

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day (conversion of an Elect believer)? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is GREAT (fallen from grace/man of sin) which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

When a believer is converted and has their blindness healed, they will be able to look back and see that they had been under Satan's deceptions all along without realizing it. That is the nature of being deceived; while it is happening, a person cannot know it. Only after they come out of the deception will they see the "man of sin" and the Abomination of Desolation. That is when they "perceive and see" that their wickedness was great. When this happens to a person, they will know with certainty that they have been converted and that their inheritance has been confirmed.

Joe

 

[Wick Stick]

There has to be a reason why because they all work from the same scriptures... but not all see the same thing

Maybe something about the 2000-year-long game of telephone

 

[Pearl]

There has to be a reason why because they all work from the same scriptures... but not all see the same thing

A number of factors are in play here; we are all on the same journey but at different stages. Also a lot depends on what we are taught by those who we trust. Some people are very young in the faith while others have been travelling that road for a long time and it's nothing to do with our age but out spiritual maturity. We also have to remember that sometimes when we disagree with people it may be because only one of us has the truth.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Dear Rella,
When a believer is converted, their spiritual blindness will be healed by the "Spirit of Truth" (Latter Rain). After it is healed, the "man of sin' will be revealed to them (2Thes 2:8) and they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15) that previously occurred with themselves.

Also, at that time, the natural sun will be darkened and the natural moon will be turned to blood. In other words, the believer will no longer receive their "light" (truth) from the natural world. Satan is representative of the natural sun and the believer's carnal nature is representative of the natural moon. The blood that covers the light of the natural moon is the blood of Christ that He shed for the New Covenant. In that way, the natural moon becomes a "new moon".

There will also be trumpets, thunder, lightning and earthquakes (all spiritual symbols for conversion) which signify the believer's new birth and their change from having a carnal paradigm to having a spiritual paradigm.

Also, during the conversion process, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (same as the Lord's Supper) will occur where Christ feeds His new bride the "truth (bread and New Wine) in the Kingdom of Heaven. After the believer has been fed sufficient nourishment, they will "see" that most of what they had thought was the truth of God was actually the lies of Satan. It is quite an earthshaking event within the believer.

After I was converted, I quickly learned that nearly every doctrine of orthodox Christianity was false. The whole loaf of bread that I had been consuming was fully leavened (Mat 13:33).

When a believer goes through the spiritual process of conversion, they will know it because of what I presented above (all related to having one's spiritual blindness healed). However, trying to convince unconverted believers of what you can now see is not possible because they remain blind. I learned a long time ago, a blind person cannot see no matter how much light you shine upon them. Until the Lord sends the Latter Rain to them and heals their blindness, they will only reject what you "see".

So you might ask, why do I present the truth of what the Lord has shown to me to the members of this forum when no one is able to understand it? The answer is simple, the Lord uses servants like me to present the truth to others who are in the process of being converted.

This scripture applies:

James 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. 19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The time in between when a person receives the Early Rain and the Latter Rain is the time of Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought. When the Lord is ready to send the Latter Rain to one of His unconverted Elect, Christ will send a person to them in the spirit of Elijah who will make the Lord's pathway straight for Him to come to them. The work of Elijah is the work that the Lord has given to me to do and is why I am here on this forum.

These verses also apply to the time of Elijah's drought:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, and there hath been no Latter Rain (time of Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought); and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed (this is what we all become during the time of drought; an apostate believer/man of sin).

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance (Elect status), when it was WEARY (the believer was fallen away).

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day (conversion of an Elect believer)? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is GREAT (fallen from grace/man of sin) which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

When a believer is converted and has their blindness healed, they will be able to look back and see that they had been under Satan's deceptions all along without realizing it. That is the nature of being deceived; while it is happening, a person cannot know it. Only after they come out of the deception will they see the "man of sin" and the Abomination of Desolation. That is when they "perceive and see" that their wickedness was great. When this happens to a person, they will know with certainty that they have been converted and that their inheritance has been confirmed.

Joe

Whatever

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

A number of factors are in play here; we are all on the same journey but at different stages. Also a lot depends on what we are taught by those who we trust. Some people are very young in the faith while others have been travelling that road for a long time and it's nothing to do with our age but out spiritual maturity. We also have to remember that sometimes when we disagree with people it may be because only one of us has the truth.

We also have to remember that sometimes when we disagree with people it may be because only one of us has the truth.

Yes, but why would that be.

New to faith is one thing, then being taught by someone who hasn't a clue about what they say... like when a minister told me back in the 90s rather then correct a children's Christmas eve service where the woman was telling the kids about how fast camels trvel and that is why they were able to get from the east to the manger that night... He... an ordained minister told me that he felt it best to not correct things on the truth because it would confuse people.

And to this day I know people in that church who think I am nuts when I say they never got to the manger that night.....

I am not a newbie to the faith... and neither are you... so why do we disagree at times.

Throw in a handful of other seasoned faithful and the explanations will be all ove on things.

I have a theory, but it has been shot down before so it will stay with me.

But I appreciate all the thoughts here.

Thank you and blessings

 

[BlessedPeace]

where?

I already gave one example. Christianity is not tolerant.Nor is God as the OT demonstrates repeatedly.

So thats a contradiction?

If you know the two separate book narratives.

I am waiting for someone to do it on this topic. I have yet to see it..

What was that about pride?

If the bible contradicts we may as well throw it out. it is useless.

I see contradictions in Interpretations (most likely interpretational errors)

and contradictions in beliefs (two people read the same passage and come to different interpretations) and one or more of the interpretation causes other parts of scripture to contradict.

A good example is Eph 2: 8-9 and Romans 4 as compared to James 2 (faith/works) which appears to contradict. yet when interpreted correctly. there is no contradiction

The Bible is not inerrant. As any credible scholar will attest.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

The Bible is not inerrant. As any credible scholar will attest.

Because it was written by people who were "inspired" and writing what they thought
was inspiring them to write... if that makes sense.

Just as we see things differently.

We are, after all, people as they were

 

[Gottservant]

I am about to cut chunks of my post away because it says I am over 10,000 characters..... I am sure you can figure it out.

My character counter says I am at 8,210 unless you also count the ones in the subject?

Well, here goes

Ever wonder why it is that we all were given , from God, some translation of the Holy Bible to use as our handbook and guide us in all ways.... BUT even within those translations some have chosen to change the words just enough that there arises just enough of a challenge to understand the specific meaning.

[...]

Does the Cold Church have to agree with the Hot Church, what it believes?

Do the believers of Calvinism leave this Earth for the same worlds in Heaven, as the believers in Arminianism?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Does the Cold Church have to agree with the Hot Church, what it believes?

Do the believers of Calvinism leave this Earth for the same worlds in Heaven, as the believers in Arminianism?

We'll see.

 

[Peterlag]

I am about to cut chunks of my post away because it says I am over 10,000 characters..... I am sure you can figure it out.

My character counter says I am at 8,210 unless you also count the ones in the subject?

Well, here goes

Ever wonder why it is that we all were given , from God, some translation of the Holy Bible to use as our handbook and guide us in all ways.... BUT even within those translations some have chosen to change the words just enough that there arises just enough of a challenge to understand the specific meaning.

4 biblical examples below....


! Cor 14:33
KJV
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

NASB1995
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Greek Interlinear
Not for He is of disorder the God but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints

Peshitta
Because God is not chaotic, but peaceful, as in all the assemblies of The Holy Ones.

Side note... I find this verse to be educational because ... well lets keep the count down

Any wonder why there is such division in understanding when discussing things of the bible end up in heated debates?

Example;
Starting way back in Genesis and those 144 hours of 6 days that so many are adamant means that's how long it took... yet when you read some fragments from the dead sea scrolls that says...they are not so specific



6 fragments from 6 scrolls and they all define creation past the first day as "A" day.

This does not suggest that they were consecutive days... it just suggests there were so many days in total.

NO... not debating this point... just using as an example.....and still wondering why there are so many opinions among those brothers and sisters that just dont blend together.

I submit that it is just possible that confusion was the intent.. because those who hold the same thoughts seem to be the people who have a central figure that they have relied on for a few hundred or thousand years. The RCC, who splintered to follow another leader into the Orthodox. The SDA . The JW even those who followed John Calvin or Martin Luther relying on them to explain what is written and all the others.... Whose leaders do not teach the same....

From day one I wanted to see signs, miracles and wonders to give me proof that I was correct on how I saw the Scriptures. As Paul said

1 Corinthians 4:20
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

When I started plugging into the spirit and doing things that only the spirit can do and not the flesh was when I knew I had the Scriptures figured out. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I already gave one example. Christianity is not tolerant.Nor is God as the OT demonstrates repeatedly.

You did not give an example of a contradiction.

And God is tolerant, If he was not. No one would be here.

If you know the two separate book narratives.

What was that about pride?

The Bible is not inerrant. As any credible scholar will attest.

A translation is not inerrant, the bible itself is inspired by God.

If people do not study and see why there appears to be a contradiction or whatever, thats on them.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I think that @Marvelloustime (in reply 961 of the unrelated subject Trump is dangerous - a Messianic Complex)

HIT THE NAIL SQUARELY ON THE HEAD.

when they quoted in part
@amigo de christo

rather odd that todays preachers and todays pope
all try and convince the faiths and false religoins to just come together
and find common ground .
THEY had common ground at the BUILDING OF THE TOWER OF BABEL
OOPS .
DIDNT WORK OUT TOO GOOD did it . >>>>

and they posted this

​

I have come to a conclusion, aided by both of these fine people, that we will never draw a unified agreement on every jot and tittle of the Holy Book we read that is the (Christian) bible.

For if we do we will become as dangerous as people would have been at Babel had God not interfered.

And if I hear one person say.... blah, blah, blah... ignore that story cause it is only a parable, metaphor, or a Wiki does today... a myth.... I will put you directly on ignor. It is in the bible for a reason. Learn from it

 

[amigo de christo]

I think that @Marvelloustime (in reply 961 of the unrelated subject Trump is dangerous - a Messianic Complex)

HIT THE NAIL SQUARELY ON THE HEAD.View attachment 44761

when they quoted in part
@amigo de christo

and they posted this

View attachment 44762​

I have come to a conclusion, aided by both of these fine people, that we will never draw a unified agreement on every jot and tittle of the Holy Book we read that is the (Christian) bible.

For if we do we will become as dangerous as people would have been at Babel had God not interfered.

And if I hear one person say.... blah, blah, blah... ignore that story cause it is only a parable, metaphor, or a Wiki does today... a myth.... I will put you directly on ignor. It is in the bible for a reason. Learn from it

There is good reason WHY GOD said all things HE did say . For the good of those who do hear and do them .
GOD desired not the death of any . And HE knoweth THE WHY behind BE YE NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED
together with unbelievers . Those who do so will join hands with them . The horse and the cow
cannot plow together . What communion has the table of CHRIST with the table of belial .
Co exist was a snare . as were many other devices they used to transform from within many churches .
Let us stick to the scripture and be learning and growing by the grace of GOD by HIS SPIRIT
which does teach and guide us .

 

[BlessedPeace]

You did not give an example of a contradiction.

Untrue. You simply don't realize it exists.

By the way,the smallest seed in existence isn't the mustard seed. It is the orchid seed that is the smallest seed.

And God is tolerant, If he was not. No one would be here.

You should read the Old Testament.

Hell is another proof.

A translation is not inerrant, the bible itself is inspired by God.

Which version is inerrant?

If people do not study and see why there appears to be a contradiction or whatever, thats on them.

Or,you're wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Untrue. You simply don't realize it exists.

By the way,the smallest seed in existence isn't the mustard seed. It is the orchid seed that is the smallest seed.

Yawn

You should read the Old Testament.

I have, Maybe you should. Look how patient God was He waited years, sometimes centuries before he passed out judgment.

Maybe you should stop reading the punishment, and start reading the grace and mercy God had.. even to his enemies

Hell is another proof.

Hell? Jesus paid for everyone who will go to hell. They send themselves their by rejecting him, The cross proves this theory of yours wrong

Which version is inerrant?

Which version is not an interpretation?

Or,you're wrong.

Well I have yet to find a clear contradiction.. So I doubt I am wrong..

But you believe as you wish

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is good reason WHY GOD said all things HE did say . For the good of those who do hear and do them .
GOD desired not the death of any . And HE knoweth THE WHY behind BE YE NOT UNEQUALLY YOKED
together with unbelievers . Those who do so will join hands with them . The horse and the cow
cannot plow together . What communion has the table of CHRIST with the table of belial .
Co exist was a snare . as were many other devices they used to transform from within many churches .
Let us stick to the scripture and be learning and growing by the grace of GOD by HIS SPIRIT
which does teach and guide us .

Do you actually have a church you go to? How do you get your local body of believers to join you in your revolution. Or are you just trying to change the chat room?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yawn

Very mature.

I have, Maybe you should. Look how patient God was He waited years, sometimes centuries before he passed out judgment.

Maybe you should stop reading the punishment, and start reading the grace and mercy God had.. even to his enemies

Hell? Jesus paid for everyone who will go to hell. They send themselves their by rejecting him, The cross proves this theory of yours wrong

Which version is not an interpretation?

Well I have yet to find a clear contradiction.. So I doubt I am wrong..

But you believe as you wish

Thanks. You example the OP answer.
Pride. You display amazing Hubris and Pride. You are unteachable.