Unlocking Genesis 3:1
- Thread starter Hiddenthings
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@Hiddenthings
You parse my quotes to respond in line without any response at all.
What did the Master promise of His salvation? Who controls the mind of His elect? How does He do so?
You writhe as the serpent because I focus on you. You picked this contention, you called me out, and I appreciate that. I seize the opportunity to discuss with you.
And this is the mind of Christ, to contend for the True faith with peace and humility. To stand strong and unmoving like the Rock of my foundation against any charge, confident in His salvation as promised, that my sentence will be just in the eyes of all authority because I stand in His presence unashamed.
He is True and He has opened my eyes. In so doing, He has commanded that I should contend for Him, and so I do. It is my responsibility to exercise caution in my words and to represent Him to the best of my abilities as He has provided.
And so it is not with intent to "win" that I discuss with you now, but with the intent to glorify the Master whose love is perfection and perfecting. Because of what He has shown me of Himself, I wish only to share His glorious truth wherever I may do so.
You parse my quotes to respond in line without any response at all.
What did the Master promise of His salvation? Who controls the mind of His elect? How does He do so?
You writhe as the serpent because I focus on you. You picked this contention, you called me out, and I appreciate that. I seize the opportunity to discuss with you.
And this is the mind of Christ, to contend for the True faith with peace and humility. To stand strong and unmoving like the Rock of my foundation against any charge, confident in His salvation as promised, that my sentence will be just in the eyes of all authority because I stand in His presence unashamed.
He is True and He has opened my eyes. In so doing, He has commanded that I should contend for Him, and so I do. It is my responsibility to exercise caution in my words and to represent Him to the best of my abilities as He has provided.
And so it is not with intent to "win" that I discuss with you now, but with the intent to glorify the Master whose love is perfection and perfecting. Because of what He has shown me of Himself, I wish only to share His glorious truth wherever I may do so.
Jane, the more you push back against this truth, and the more closely we examine the issue, the harder it becomes for your position to stand.
A condition like schizophrenia cannot simply transfer itself from one person to another, yet Christ was able to move such affliction into a herd of pigs.
It’s completely illogical to suggest that all the illnesses we see in the world today are caused by some ethereal evil spirits randomly possessing people at will.
I'm confident in my understanding of the language and culture during Jesus’ time, and I'm certain that if the same events were happening today and recorded, the conditions would be clearly identified by name.
Sorry, but what does this have to do with the original post and Genesis 3:1? You're deflecting by criticizing me for supposedly not having the mind of Christ, implying that you do, and then shifting focus away from the original topic with unrelated questions.
...and I wait with bated breath for you to speak to Genesis 3:1
Why did God create an animal more cunning (shrewd) than the rest of the animal kingdom and give it voice?
By this its arrogance upon which you stand.
So, answering the questions shouldn’t be difficult, and all this irrelevant talk should be avoided?
Go ahead and pontificate, I’m getting the feeling you enjoy hearing yourself talk.
When is this about winning Xtra? is that your motive?
The OP stands - the questions relating to the OP stand.
Please don’t waste my time with posts like this. If you can’t answer the question, just say so. Take some time to pray, read, and reflect, then come back when you’re ready.
We are to trust in the Lord with all our heart, not to lean on our own understanding.
In all our ways we must acknowledge Him, then He will carry us through.
I don't mean to waste your time. None of mine is wasted because I have all eternity. You call it arrogance, but I call Him Truth.
Exactly! this is your first truly valuable post in the thread. Now, with this trust, please share your insights on Genesis 3:1. No doubt you’ve noticed how everyone seems to avoid directly addressing this verse and topic. Clearly, it’s a challenging issue; otherwise, we wouldn’t be seeing so much deflection and noise.
No, it’s a waste of both our time, and your eternity is assumed! You’re trusting that He will complete the good work He began in you. Being perfected is a life work...
Hebrews 5:8-9 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Follow his example and find his truth and all will be well with you Xtra.
dak
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The statement at the bottom of your post is you not realizing that you are assuming something that is not stated and inserting your belief into the text. For one, the Master even says that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanne the Immerser, (think long on that statement because there are no qualifiers or stipulations to that statement regardless of what you might prefer to believe). And for two, you are never going to get around the plainly stated scriptures which I already quoted in my first post herein.
Take one alone and reason it out by the places where it is quoted from in the N/T, (do the work I already did for you, if you must, and see it for yourself).
Again:
Psalm 86:4-8 ASV
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Heb 2:6]
5 For thou hast made him but little lower than God, [Elohim-Angels] And crownest him with glory and honor. [Heb 2:7]
6 Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; [Gen 1:26-28] Thou hast put all things under his feet: [Gen 1:26-28, 1Cor 15:25-27, Eph 1:22, Heb 2:8]
7 All sheep and oxen, Yea, and the beasts of the field, [Gen 1:26-28]
8 The birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. [Gen 1:26-28]
Hear the Logos in this passage: the Son of Man is given dominion in Gen 1:26-28, it's obvious from the context, and all things are put into subjection under his feet. The former one called the adam therefore is now not just the old adam who fell, and died, but the new Adam raised up with and in the Son of Adam, the Word, the King of Righteousness, the Son of the Most High, and Gen 1:26-28 is the place where he is actually named Adam, where he is cut-down-created into the image of Elohim, (see Gen 5:1-2 which points back to Gen 1:26-28). What you are looking at here is the new creation, which is very good, not the time before the adam transgressed.
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Do you think He learned obedience in fear of failure? Or did He learn it from a place of Certainty in His outcome?
I do not claim to be perfect, but it is with the greatest pride of my life that I declare He has sealed me with His Holy Spirit. This is not indicative of my present perfection, but of a perfection to come in which I can be certain.
With this confidence I contend on His behalf. I express the words He gives me and on occasion I express my own. For the latter I am quick to apologize. For the former, I make no apology. The Master Himself distinguishes for me as He sees fit.
I am certain because I have Certainty. I am here to share Him. And I have in this thread. But you provide me opportunity to continue, so I do. If I tell you the truth one time or three, it makes no difference if you will refuse it.
And yes, I am absolutely trusting that He will complete His work in me.
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Maybe Xtra is lonely, but we must move on with the OP.
Let’s take a closer look at the word “subtil” in Genesis 3:1. It’s the only time this Hebrew word ʿārûm is translated as “subtil,” but it appears ten other times in the Old Testament, fitting into two distinct categories.
In Job, Eliphaz uses it twice, translated as “crafty” (Job 5:12 and 15:5) and in those contexts, it carries a negative connotation, much like in Genesis 3 (or is it?).
However, the remaining eight occurrences are found in Proverbs, where the word is used positively, translated as “prudent.” In these passages, it describes wisdom or thoughtfulness rather than deception. If you don’t have time to check all eight, consider especially the last two (which are identical) and compare them with the Genesis 3 context:
If this "cunning" is said to come from a false accuser...how could it ever be used in a positive context?
This of course this begs the questions in this OP.
God created an animal with certain reasoning abilities but unlike the first pair who were made in the image of the Elohim this animal could only reason upon it's nature (flesh).
Let’s take a closer look at the word “subtil” in Genesis 3:1. It’s the only time this Hebrew word ʿārûm is translated as “subtil,” but it appears ten other times in the Old Testament, fitting into two distinct categories.
In Job, Eliphaz uses it twice, translated as “crafty” (Job 5:12 and 15:5) and in those contexts, it carries a negative connotation, much like in Genesis 3 (or is it?).
However, the remaining eight occurrences are found in Proverbs, where the word is used positively, translated as “prudent.” In these passages, it describes wisdom or thoughtfulness rather than deception. If you don’t have time to check all eight, consider especially the last two (which are identical) and compare them with the Genesis 3 context:
- Proverbs 12:16, 23
- Proverbs 13:16
- Proverbs 14:8, 15, 18
- Proverbs 22:3
- Proverbs 27:12
If this "cunning" is said to come from a false accuser...how could it ever be used in a positive context?
This of course this begs the questions in this OP.
God created an animal with certain reasoning abilities but unlike the first pair who were made in the image of the Elohim this animal could only reason upon it's nature (flesh).
I do. And I would like for you to win also. But you reject Certainty to your chagrin because you do not recognize Him. Farewell.
When we are called to shed our blood for Him as He shed His for us, perhaps you will see at that time.
@Wick Stick
I was reading an old study on this subject and came across this:
"The concept of nakedness in the Bible often comes to symbolize a state of being astray or separated from God. Interestingly, the Hebrew word translated “subtil” in Genesis 3:1 (ʿārûm, Strong’s <06175>) is closely related to the word translated “naked” in Genesis 2:25 (ʿêrom, Strong’s <06174>).
This connection suggests a deeper thematic link between vulnerability, awareness, and the shift that occurs after the fall."
That's an insightful connection between the negative connotation of cunning and the shame associated with nakedness.
I once believed that a change in nature occurred at the pronouncement of death, but later in life I've come to see it differently. I now believe, as Paul teaches, that their nature was always earthly—and the real change took place in their minds. It was a defilement, a carnal mind awakened (Romans 8:6).
I was reading an old study on this subject and came across this:
"The concept of nakedness in the Bible often comes to symbolize a state of being astray or separated from God. Interestingly, the Hebrew word translated “subtil” in Genesis 3:1 (ʿārûm, Strong’s <06175>) is closely related to the word translated “naked” in Genesis 2:25 (ʿêrom, Strong’s <06174>).
This connection suggests a deeper thematic link between vulnerability, awareness, and the shift that occurs after the fall."
That's an insightful connection between the negative connotation of cunning and the shame associated with nakedness.
I once believed that a change in nature occurred at the pronouncement of death, but later in life I've come to see it differently. I now believe, as Paul teaches, that their nature was always earthly—and the real change took place in their minds. It was a defilement, a carnal mind awakened (Romans 8:6).
Revelation 3:17 - "For you say, “I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing,” not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked."
That was me, sorry. I couldn't help but point out the irony of your post.
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