Unto Good Works is With Works Now, Not Later

[robert derrick]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created new in Christ Jesus to do good works now, to walk in His steps now, not later down the road of still sinning.

The lie of OSAS is all about being saved by faith alone first, before and apart from doing good works: salvation by faith alone without good works at first, as though there is temporal time between believing and obeying God.

I.e. salvation is now, and unto good works is in the future.

This is of course false, since obeying God first begins withing the heart, when first believing God to wash within the cup, that the outside by be clean, not unto cleaning.

Nevertheless, to be consistent:

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We first believe with the heart, before and apart from doing righteousness: we believe unto righteousness.

Therefore, we first confess with the mouth, before and apart from being saved: we confess unto salvation.

OSAS will agree with the first vehemently, and disagree with the second just as vehemently, because the first appears to justify them without works at first, while the second therefore does not save them by faith alone at first.

According to OSAS teaching of unto, believing and confessing saves no man, because even as good works and doing righteousness only comes later, so must salvation.

That is if we're being consistent in reading Scripture. Good luck that with OSAS.

And so we conclude Scripture is true: no man is saved by dead faith alone, and is only justified by works of God's righteousness, which we do within the heart first, that we may be doing His righteousness at all times in the flesh.

With the heart we believe to do righteousness, and with confession of the mouth we are being saved.

Believing and doing with God is one and the same:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The faith of Jesus is both the substance and the evidence of the unseen God.

 

[quietthinker]

Unto Good Works is With Works Now, Not Later
Ahhhh, public works! ....it'll keep those pot holes delivering a rough ride.

 

[robert derrick]

Every babe born into the world alive, is born to live without sinning.

But all living souls do sin and die

Every babe born again in the world alive, is born to live without sinning by faith.

And all souls living again do not sin and shall never die:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Our souls are alive again, when we are born again, and them alive again that believe in Him to obey Him now shall never die.

OSAS doesn't believe this.

They believe they are alive forever, whether they obey or disobey Him in future.

 

[robert derrick]

Unto Good Works is With Works Now, Not Later
Ahhhh, public works! ....it'll keep those pot holes delivering a rough ride.

Public works are outwardly only to please men, righteous works are from within to please God.

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments.

Hypocrites love public works to be seen of men.

When you learn that, you'll cease calling works of His righteousness hypocrisy on parade.

 

[quietthinker]

Public works are outwardly only to please men, righteous works are from within to please God.

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments.

Hypocrites love public works to be seen of men.

When you learn that, you'll cease calling works of His righteousness hypocrisy on parade.

I s'pose when I learn that I'll be qualified.

 

[Robert Gwin]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are created new in Christ Jesus to do good works now, to walk in His steps now, not later down the road of still sinning.

The lie of OSAS is all about being saved by faith alone first, before and apart from doing good works: salvation by faith alone without good works at first, as though there is temporal time between believing and obeying God.

I.e. salvation is now, and unto good works is in the future.

This is of course false, since obeying God first begins withing the heart, when first believing God to wash within the cup, that the outside by be clean, not unto cleaning.

Nevertheless, to be consistent:

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We first believe with the heart, before and apart from doing righteousness: we believe unto righteousness.

Therefore, we first confess with the mouth, before and apart from being saved: we confess unto salvation.

OSAS will agree with the first vehemently, and disagree with the second just as vehemently, because the first appears to justify them without works at first, while the second therefore does not save them by faith alone at first.

According to OSAS teaching of unto, believing and confessing saves no man, because even as good works and doing righteousness only comes later, so must salvation.

That is if we're being consistent in reading Scripture. Good luck that with OSAS.

And so we conclude Scripture is true: no man is saved by dead faith alone, and is only justified by works of God's righteousness, which we do within the heart first, that we may be doing His righteousness at all times in the flesh.

With the heart we believe to do righteousness, and with confession of the mouth we are being saved.

Believing and doing with God is one and the same:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The faith of Jesus is both the substance and the evidence of the unseen God.

Good post Rob, and I understand and agree with it, but it is rather complicated, can you simplify what our works are to be, I have a particular passage in mind that is point blank sir.

 

[robert derrick]

Good post Rob, and I understand and agree with it, but it is rather complicated, can you simplify what our works are to be, I have a particular passage in mind that is point blank sir.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Doing works of God's righteousness begins within the heart, by purifying and guarding our hearts at all times. If not, we become self-righteous Pharisees of unclean hearts and minds.

Ascending the mount, Abraham was obeying the Lord within the heart by faith, which God imputed as righteousness: he was guarding his heart against all doubt, accusation against God, or unwillingness to do what he was commanded to do at the top of the mount and sacrifice his only son Isaac, by which he was justified with God, when he had offered up Isaac.

Even as he had chased away the fowls of the air from his sacrifice to the Lord.

 

[robert derrick]

I s'pose when I learn that I'll be qualified.

Not until you get a haircut anyway:

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Unless of course you enjoy having the hair of a woman more.

And their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We are created new in Christ Jesus to do good works now, to walk in His steps now, not later down the road of still sinning.

The lie of OSAS is all about being saved by faith alone first, before and apart from doing good works: salvation by faith alone without good works at first, as though there is temporal time between believing and obeying God.

Well as works never save according to the Bible- your answer is irrelevant
But Paul said it best in Ephesians 2- we are saved apart from works lest any man should boast!

Yes we are saved unto good works, but not by good works.

Well we have to get saved to be able to do works acceptable unto god! IN our human nature dwells no good thing! and those in the flesh CANNOT please god, so we have to be in the spirit to do good works! That means we have to get teh Spirit first, so we need to be saved first, then we can do good works.

 

[lforrest]

Well as works never save according to the Bible- your answer is irrelevant
But Paul said it best in Ephesians 2- we are saved apart from works lest any man should boast!

Yes we are saved unto good works, but not by good works.

Well we have to get saved to be able to do works acceptable unto god! IN our human nature dwells no good thing! and those in the flesh CANNOT please god, so we have to be in the spirit to do good works! That means we have to get teh Spirit first, so we need to be saved first, then we can do good works.

Agreed, the good works spoken of here are works God has prepared for the saved to do.

I do not see where purifying ourselves is considered a work. It's more like getting dressed in the morning, or feeding yourself. These are things to do in order to get ready to work.

 

[quietthinker]

Not until you get a haircut anyway:

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Unless of course you enjoy having the hair of a woman more.

And their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women.

Now we're getting to the core of the driver!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Doing works of God's righteousness begins within the heart, by purifying and guarding our hearts at all times. If not, we become self-righteous Pharisees of unclean hearts and minds.

Ascending the mount, Abraham was obeying the Lord within the heart by faith, which God imputed as righteousness: he was guarding his heart against all doubt, accusation against God, or unwillingness to do what he was commanded to do at the top of the mount and sacrifice his only son Isaac, by which he was justified with God, when he had offered up Isaac.

Even as he had chased away the fowls of the air from his sacrifice to the Lord.

Yes that is the starting point, but just that, what is our assignment when we move toward maturity in the faith?

No sir, we do not have to sacrifice our children as was told to Abraham. Most likely you are aware why God asked that of him, but if not, I would certainly be glad to explain that to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The issue comes when our motivation to do works is to sanctify OURSELVES. Toe keep OURSELVES saved. or to somehow make it so we can not lose salvation (NOSAS)

We can scream at the top of our lungs we are doing it because we love God and our motivation is him. But we not only lying to those we scream it to. We are lying to ourselves. Because while we scream they are not self righteous works. That is exacly what they are

The works paul spoke of are those works those who were saved by Grace alone are created (empowered) to do. Works are an outpouring of Love, We love because God loves us first. Not because we have some innate power to do anything.

Paul said not of works, lest anyone should boast. Yet what do people who attack OSAS continue day after day to do. BOAST! Boast of how righteous they are. Boast of how much more they love God because of what they do. Boast of how they are not like the OSAS sinner. and praising God they are not like them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Agreed, the good works spoken of here are works God has prepared for the saved to do.

I do not see where purifying ourselves is considered a work. It's more like getting dressed in the morning, or feeding yourself. These are things to do in order to get ready to work.

Purifying is a lifelong process via Romans 12. We get purified when the word of God takes root in our hearts and we unlearn the old ways and replace them with the Godly ways.

 

[lforrest]

Purifying is a lifelong process via Romans 12. We get purified when the word of God takes root in our hearts and we unlearn the old ways and replace them with the Godly ways.

But would God consider this purifying as a work of ours to be rewarded? Or is this more like a minimum expectation?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But would God consider this purifying as a work of ours to be rewarded? Or is this more like a minimum expectation?

Rewards are based on obedience not growing in grace. But growing in grace produces greater obedience.

We think too much in either/or when with god it seems to always be a both/and situation.

If we grow in transformation we will naturally do good works! Not perfection but a constant progression.

 

[Happy Trails]

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

YHVH ordained the good works. He ordained that WE should walk in them.

The good works he ordained are the Torah. "Walking" means to execute a specific lifestyle.

A person can walk in disobedience. They can walk in righteousness.

It is all a matter of whom they choose to obey. Romans 6:15

"Faith" is "emunah." It is more akin to "steadfastness."

A person who is faithful to observing the feasts of YHVH will see that the substance of those feasts is "the ultimate atoning sacrifice." Everything that happened to Jesus happened EXACTLY according to the schedule of the Spring feasts. That is the evidence of that which was unseen until Jesus arrived. Continuing to observe these feasts now serve as a memorial to the events, rather than a shadow. Colossians 2:16-17

 

[robert derrick]

Now we're getting to the core of the driver!

Exactly. However, I don't believe you are wrong at times, because of your womanly long hair, though uncombed, but because you simply are twisting Scripture at times.

And while I have enjoyed your wit on the whole, it is at times used to cover a falsehood, and so it becomes jesting and tiresome.

I like your mature wit, when it's true. It's childish when not.

 

[robert derrick]

Yes that is the starting point, but just that, what is our assignment when we move toward maturity in the faith?

No sir, we do not have to sacrifice our children as was told to Abraham. Most likely you are aware why God asked that of him, but if not, I would certainly be glad to explain that to you.

The assignment is the calling is to obey the faith outwardly and become saints and sons of God walking after the Spirit.

Maturity in the faith is twofold: growing in knowledge of the Lord and His word, and so learning to have a pure conscience and zeal for the Lord according to knowledge.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

That is for both Jew and Gentile as the Israel of God.

The law of Christ is written in our hearts and minds as we grow in the knowledge of Scripture to believe and do it: Scripture says God will write His law in our hearts through Christ, but Scripture does not say all at once as newborn babes in Christ.

The soul is made living, and the conscience is pure again as from the womb, and though with knowledge of having done evil and sin, but not with true understanding of what evil and good is to God. The mind must still be renewed by the Scriptures to know the difference between good and evil, as God says it is in Scripture.

We must know what God says sin is, not what man, nor ourselves, say sin is.

We become strong in the word, so that we are not seduced by the devil into false doctrine of Christ: we guard our hearts and pure conscience by doing His word only, and not be falling into the ditch of traditions, commandments, and rules of men falsely preached for the law of Christ.

I learn to do all things by faith with knowledge of Scripture written on my heart: I have learned not to obey the consciences and rules of men, who don't know what they are talking about according to Scripture:

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Simply put: true Christian growth and maturity is learning to have a pure conscience to do all things by faith with certain knowledge of the truth of God.

A mature adult Christian by knowledge of Scripture knows the difference between good and evil, which includes the difference between the conviction of the Spirit upon the conscience, and the guilt trips of men playing with the conscience:

Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

Babes without knowledge can have their consciences seductively swayed from the truth, and so can become sincere of conscience and sincerely bewitched in doctrine and law of Christ:

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The other side of the coin is babes with weak conscience that never grow up, but rather believe their own weak conscience is strength in righteousness and holy living, and so preach their own childish consciences for law of Christ:

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

A mature saint in Christ Jesus, being strong in His word, knows both how not to wound the weak conscience of sincere babes, while also not being dominated by the weak consciences of ungrown children, that think they are the really strong adults in the room.

We help one another's joy in the word of truth. We don't help ourselves to the sincere consciences of others to make proselytes of our own:

Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your for by faith ye stand.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

 

[robert derrick]

Well as works never save according to the Bible- your answer is irrelevant
But Paul said it best in Ephesians 2- we are saved apart from works lest any man should boast!

Yes we are saved unto good works, but not by good works.

Well we have to get saved to be able to do works acceptable unto god! IN our human nature dwells no good thing! and those in the flesh CANNOT please god, so we have to be in the spirit to do good works! That means we have to get the Spirit first, so we need to be saved first, then we can do good works.

Your response is irrelevant, because as usual, all you do is repeat your own mantra, without ever addressing any specific points made by another:

If unto good works is any time difference, and so separate and apart from believing, so that there is faith standing alone without doing anything with it now, then so does unto salvation have time difference, separate and apart from believing: faith alone cannot stand alone to be saved now, while good works only follow 'in due time', which of course also includes still sinning in the flesh.

There is no time of 'then' between believing and obeying God within the heart to purify within the cup, that we may live pure in the flesh.

If unto good works follows believing in due time, then so does unto salvation follow confession unto due time: that due time is only when the believing and confession are made true: only when it is obeyed within and outwardly. Not before.

We can make a good confession of faith with our lips, but until we are obeying Him within the heart and in the flesh, our confession remains with lips only.

Saving faith of Jesus recieved into the heart is not the natural man's idea about faith: I believe Jesus is the Christ, so now I am going to work on doing better and sinning less.

If we now believe in the heart, we now obey in the heart. If we now obey in the heart, we now obey in the flesh: there is no progressive gradual lifestyle of sanctifying ourselves in Christ Jesus, which is working unto doing good, while sinning less.

If we are still sinning, we are not yet believing unto His righteousness with the heart, yet.

Thinking to be saved by works is twofold: whether earning it by doing better, or of being already saved in the past by faith alone unto doing better, while sinning less.

OSAS is the latter: once saved in the past be faith alone, unto living better with less sinning, but never unto doing His righteousness from the heart and ceasing from sin at any day or time on earth.

OSAS is salvation for them that certainly agree Jesus is the Christ and say so willingly with the lips, while going on still in this natural sins and trespasses, to become better sinners rather than worse sinners.

They never become sons of God with power of Jesus Christ to do righteousness at all times and sin not: not on any given day on earth.