Upside down Christianity

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Brett

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May 25, 2007
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The Bible says that tongues is to be desired the least of gifts and yet many churches teach it as an absolute neccesity to have as a sign of the spirit.Whereas Love is almost toally neglected. I cant ever remeber a minister praying for someone to recieve the gift of Love!Everywhere we look we see Christians with pictures and depictions (all false) of Christ when the Bible says no images. And yes a picture can be an image and worshiped. (According to the images Christ and all the apostles were nazarites under vow, long hair beards) Christ and they were never accused of breaking the nazarite vows by touching dead bodies and drinking wine which they clearly did and yet the Pharisees ans Saducees were seeking for reasons to condem Him and them.There are not one evidence of Angels being female and yet everywhere are pictures and statues etc of female aAngels. The Bible cleary refers to ALL Angels as masculine. And isnt a picture or statue of an Angel "anything in heaven above"?We are supposed to have been set free by Christ from all the old ordinances and yet are expected to follow them and be re-enslaved, dont touch , dont eat, do this, give that.Why so uside down? How do those who do these things justify it?
 

jodycour

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Jun 4, 2007
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Natchitoches, La
I agree with you on all of what you said above Brett,But just like every thing else we can not go overboard either!Look how awesome was the movie "The Passion" by Mel Gibson.How many people where touch, moved, and gave their lives to Christ because of it?These things are great evangelistic tools!We need to also be cautious not to become like the Pharisees, and Saducees who where so caught up in their religious system that love went out the window.Just like Jesus had to teach them concerning the Sabath that it was for man, not man for the Sabath!
 

poetboy

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Jul 2, 2007
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(Brett;13330)
The Bible says that tongues is to be desired the least of gifts and yet many churches teach it as an absolute neccesity to have as a sign of the spirit.Whereas Love is almost toally neglected. I cant ever remeber a minister praying for someone to recieve the gift of Love!Everywhere we look we see Christians with pictures and depictions (all false) of Christ when the Bible says no images. And yes a picture can be an image and worshiped. (According to the images Christ and all the apostles were nazarites under vow, long hair beards) Christ and they were never accused of breaking the nazarite vows by touching dead bodies and drinking wine which they clearly did and yet the Pharisees ans Saducees were seeking for reasons to condem Him and them.There are not one evidence of Angels being female and yet everywhere are pictures and statues etc of female aAngels. The Bible cleary refers to ALL Angels as masculine. And isnt a picture or statue of an Angel "anything in heaven above"?We are supposed to have been set free by Christ from all the old ordinances and yet are expected to follow them and be re-enslaved, dont touch , dont eat, do this, give that.Why so uside down? How do those who do these things justify it?
so if i kneeled and prayed before a picture of jesus, then that would be worshipping?..wouldn't my thoughts be directed to god?..can u give me a verse where it says this is wrong?and also drinking wine is wrong, when jesus and apostles did it? ( or was it grape juice lol)? besides the fact that today's world love's alcohol (which im sure were not suppose to consume) i thought it was fine to drink wine, even though i hear people "claiming" the bible says drinking this is bad...and no, u dont need to speak in tongues to show u have the spirit, although it is an awesome gift (personally, I think it's kinda scary- with people jumping everywhere in my church when they do it, and whatnot)comments please, leave ur scriptures so i may be clarified
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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I think each gift is special in it's own way. And each gift brings you closer to God. I'd be happy to get any one of them
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tim_from_pa

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Jul 11, 2007
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Pertaining to tongues, I like what the apostle Paul said:Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.Tongues has their place, but Paul gave them their proper perspective.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Amen to that Tim. Tongues is only good for edifying yourself unless you have an iterputer. In fact without an interputer we are told it should not be spoken with more than 2 or 3 people
 

Brett

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May 25, 2007
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For a start Mel,s movie the Passion is based upon his Catholic perception of Christ. I refused to watch it, the trailers were enough to see the tree had no truth or proper fruit. Didnt it at one stage depict Satan as a woman if I am right! Of tap mate. It also depicted Christ in the visual manner of the Catholic churches depictions of long hair etc.I would not bow down and worship those pictures or pray to them. They are pictures made up from mans imagination. The chances of drawing a picture accurately or even remotely accurate of some one from 2000 years ago with zip to go by is infitesimal. Worshiping an image, a picture is an image is just what Satan wants. Very, very dangerous. Revelation talks about those worshiping the image of the beast. Need any more than that?People, multiple, jumping about talking in tongues sounds wakko and uncontrolled and just what Paul taught against happening in Corinth.False images of Christ will never be a good Christain tool, in fact it is the most harmfull and leads to image worship, dumb idols that cannot speak. Why worship a stone or rock or plaster etc image when you can close your eyes and worship the actual Lord Himself. Now thats wierd, dangerous and totally unbiblical. Passages to prove it, mate its all through the Word. Exodus, to Revelation. Read it with your eyes open and think hard about what you said that worshipping an image is ok!
 

poetboy

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Jul 2, 2007
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(tim_from_pa;13385)
Pertaining to tongues, I like what the apostle Paul said:Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.Tongues has their place, but Paul gave them their proper perspective.
nice quote, where is the reference? romans? acts?and what about the wine bit? if jesus and the apostles can feast with wine, then why is it wrong?..is it referring rather to "alcohol"?
 

Brett

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May 25, 2007
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Sorry I dont have every passages number memorised in my head. Are you serious that you have not read about not worshipping images in the Bible and need someone to point out the exact passage?I dont remeber knocking wine but if you are asking about where they drank it have a look at when Jesus and the Disciples gathered and broke the bread and drank the wine at the near end of each of Mathew Mark Luke and John.The word says to not be given to "much wine" not none at all. Sorry , cant qoute the dirrect passage number off hand. So tell me, would you really bow down to a made up image of a so called Christ? Thats scary. I did say that there is in REVELATION a passage about the followers of the beast worshipping an image. Whether I can quote the exact precise number is irrelevent. Is that your argument to justfy worshipping images, that I cant quote a passage. Why so touchy about the subject of images of Christ? Is that how you pray to the Lord, using picture or statue images?
 

Brett

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May 25, 2007
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PS. The original manuscripts never had numbers. For centuries there were not even chapters if I am correct in saying. Even in the Bible itself there are times when all its says is "it is written" without a dirrect passage quote.Knowing numbered passages off hand like a parrot is no sign either way of whether or not something has merit.
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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Apr 5, 2007
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A statue of an angel seems like a fine thing to me. The top of the ark of the covenant had these cherubim with their wings.
Exodus 25:18 "You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.
A Nazarite did not trim his hair. Having longish hair is not equivalent to never trimming your hair. People with long hair trim it all the time. They just don’t trim it short. I don’t think it matters if a painting shows Jesus with long or short or light brown or dark brown hair. And, of course, treating a picture like God is silly. A picture is not God. I don’t think most Christians treat pictures like God, though. I’ve never met anyone who does or who teaches other to do so.
 

poetboy

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Jul 2, 2007
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(Brett;13399)
Sorry I dont have every passages number memorised in my head. Are you serious that you have not read about not worshipping images in the Bible and need someone to point out the exact passage?
whooooaaa there!! no, I DONT worship images..i never have man..i think you need to reread my first post here, i said: so if i kneeled and prayed before a picture of jesus, then that would be worshipping?..add the word "hypothetically" after "SO", cuz i didn't put myself in a position to say that I DO worship images, cuz i dont- i pray wit my hands folded eyes closed.(Brett;13399)
I dont remeber knocking wine but if you are asking about where they drank it have a look at when Jesus and the Disciples gathered and broke the bread and drank the wine at the near end of each of Mathew Mark Luke and John.The word says to not be given to "much wine" not none at all. Sorry , cant qoute the dirrect passage number off hand.
ok. so you can justify that it much rather refer's to "alcohol" like i said earlier, cuz i already know i can drink some wine..jesus said eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, and they had the communion with the bread and with the wine, so i know my scripture- im not taking it literally, i understand man, im just curious that's all.(Brett;13399)
So tell me, would you really bow down to a made up image of a so called Christ? Thats scary. I did say that there is in REVELATION a passage about the followers of the beast worshipping an image.
this i also know, i mean, i dont know the passage very well, but i know the commandment of not idolizing and worshipping other gods, so...(Brett;13399)
Whether I can quote the exact precise number is irrelevent. Is that your argument to justfy worshipping images, that I cant quote a passage. Why so touchy about the subject of images of Christ? Is that how you pray to the Lord, using picture or statue images?
ok. the reason i recommend, or ask for quotes or reference is to justify with the word of the lord, some people might just be talking u know, but i can also check, it's just a way for me to connect so we can discuss based on the scripture itself, not having one is fine, as long as we have the understanding.oh yeah..im not being mean or anything, it's just that you came off a bit harsh there, i felt sort of "criticised" if u know what i mean
 

tim_from_pa

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Jul 11, 2007
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nice quote, where is the reference? romans? acts?and what about the wine bit? if jesus and the apostles can feast with wine, then why is it wrong?..is it referring rather to "alcohol"?
Sorry I did not give the reference: it's found in 1 Corinthians 14:19.Drinking wine is not forbidden. Being drunk is.... and in the case of food, being gluttonous. Equally wrong. Wine is a clean food in the bible. That which was pronounced kosher by the Lord is never wrong. BTW, the same goes for salt that you hear so many "evils" about these days. I will agree that overdoing anything is bad (gluttonous) but I do not think we have to stick with the measly amount they say (says Mr. 122/75 and not bad for an almost 50-year-old guy that eats salt)
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Check with the Bible for any food/health advice.
 

TallMan

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Jul 20, 2007
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(Brett;13330)
The Bible says that tongues is to be desired the least of gifts and yet many churches teach it as an absolute neccesity to have as a sign of the spirit.
Ah, you are confusing 2 things."The gifts" are the meetings-use (*giving* to the church) of what all Christians have for private use. That's why we read of knowledge, wisdom & faith in the same list - 1 Cor. 12:8-12, see also 1 Cor. 1:4-7.Acts details becoming Christian by receiving the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9, 1 Cor. 12:13) . . here we see that it was known precisely when this happened - by the sign of speaking in tongues. We never read "all received the Spirit and some got the gift of tongues"All spoke in tongues, the newtongue signifying the new heart and all need it to "pray in the Spirit" (Romans 8:26, 1 Cor. 14:14-22, Jude 19-21).In the context of a Christian meeting, tongues is least helpful as other christians don't need to hear it(Brett;13330)
Whereas Love is almost toally neglected. I cant ever remeber a minister praying for someone to recieve the gift of Love!
You won't find Paul, Peter or any of Jesus' ministers praying for anyone to "recieve the gift of Love" either !However, when you receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit you receive God's love ("agape"):-the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (Romans 5:5)"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,Keep yourselves in the love of God" (Jude 20-21)(Brett;13330)
Everywhere we look we see Christians with pictures and depictions (all false) of Christ when the Bible says no images. And yes a picture can be an image and worshiped.
Not everywhere, I'm with people that all have a personal relationship with The Lord, his mind, desires and character, we don't need a picture, we are living epistles, the word made flesh to each other.Brett, I appreciate you have met people claiming to represent Jesus actually mis-representing him.If you get "born again" by receiving the Spirit as the bible details, He will personally show you what's what, and what isn't.