Usa The Fall Of A Nation.

[gator347]

RJP, you are an educated idiot. Show me what your wonderful education has taught you.

God made it easy so the average man could understand. So, what’s your problem?

Find in any post where I profess the “Prosperity Message”? I am waiting. I didn’t think so.

That is bogus. Our rewards are in Heaven. And tell me that Mother Teresa was not “Rich”.

Please, show me where God took a Blessing away in the New Testament?

True, if you roll in the mud with pigs you will get dirty and if you turn away from God, chances are, you will get in trouble but God is not going to zap you.

So, tell us why a Christian believer could be sent to a Polish Concentration and killed by Nazis?

Evil happens because God gives us a free will. This is not a perfect world and so not until the second coming will good people be free of bad things. God also gives us a chance to turn to him. Even Jeffry Dahmer was saved but was still held accountable in this world.

Why are there are so many sold-out Christians: living in slums, imprisoned, being tortured and murdered for their faith? Oil is polluting the Gulf Coast because someone screwed up and not because God is punishing Louisiana.

Oh, yeah I have an M.S. also. What is your point? I knew Catholic Priests with PhDs who knew very little about the Evangelical Perspective.

 

[[email protected]]

RJP, you are an educated idiot. Show me what your wonderful education has taught you.

My education has taught me that earthly possessions are not the most important things in life.
I am curious as to why you express so much objection to that statement.

The world is full of Christians who endure without American conveniences and wealth.
The cemetaries are full of Christians who have had all their toys taken from them by God; in His time and for His reasons.

I argue for the soverignty of God.
God acts according to His good pleasure to give and take away according to His good will.
You seem to argue that God's motivation is that at the end of the day a good time was had by all.

God made it easy so the average man could understand. So, what’s your problem?[
Find in any post where I profess the “Prosperity Message”? I am waiting. I didn’t think so.

You state by inference and defend your position by insult not reason, thereby negating your argument.

That is bogus. Our rewards are in Heaven. And tell me that Mother Teresa was not “Rich”.

The subject is earthly riches and the gospel of prosperity, not heavenly rewards.
To answer your question, Mother Teresa was NOT rich. There was no large stock portfolio held by her estate that I'm aware of......

Please, show me where God took a Blessing away in the New Testament?

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therein to be content.
I know how to be abased, and I know also how to abound: in everything and in all things have I learned the secret both to be filled and to be hungry, both to abound and to be in want.
I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me.
Howbeit ye did well, that ye had fellowship with my affliction.
Phillipians 4:11-14

By this the writer indicates that he has enjoyed prosperity as well as lack and has learned to accept all things by the grace of God.

So, tell us why a Christian believer could be sent to a Polish Concentration and killed by Nazis?

The crime is BEING A CHRISTIAN. Such a thing is common in countries which accept the naturalist atheist philosophy of life.
Such things are difficult to accept among those who live in the lap of luxury and believe that God owes all men security and bags of gold.

Evil happens because God gives us a free will. This is not a perfect world and so not until the second coming will good people be free of bad things. God also gives us a chance to turn to him. Even Jeffry Dahmer was saved but was still held accountable in this world.

Evil sometimes happens because God decrees that it should happen.
Again I refer you back to the book of Job. Its message cannot be reasoned out by means of the philosophy of prosperity.
The bottom line is that those things which God does or does not do are God's issue not ours. He owes no man an explanation nor reward for obediance of His will.

Oh, yeah I have an M.S. also. What is your point? I knew Catholic Priests with PhDs who knew very little about the Evangelical Perspective.

What is my point to stating my education?
You asked and I answered, or did you forget?
Perhaps you should review your own posts.

Catholic priests study catholic theology and philosophy and are awarded degrees according to that field of study.
The field that they work in is with Catholics, not fundamentalists.
They have no need to study evangelical notions.

Since you state that you studied for an MS you should already be aware of the academic scope of such studies, neither should you have to have it explained to you; or did you buy your degree on the internet for $39.95 a month?

It is not necessary for all Christians to study Evangelical theology in order to be approved by God.
They only need to accept Christ.
Neither do they need to make donations in order to continue to enjoy His blessing (a typical $ermon topic by tho$e who teach the go$pel of pro$perity - which is what thi$ whole argument boil$ down to).

Is that simple enough for you?

 

[gator347]

JRP, you are a Joke. It is people like you who turn people away from true Christianity.

You attacked me and claimed I was into “Prosperity” which was a total falsehood and I for one are totally against that doctrine. Prosperity is not things!!! Riches and prosperity are relationships: relationships with God, with your spouse, with family, with your friends and with your neighbors.

You attacked my education but touted yours because you have a master’s degree in theology. And your humility (lack thereof) is very apparent when you belittle self taught preachers. I can point to a vast amount of PhDs in Theology who are way off course. (Just watch the History Channel) Yet history is full of great “Biblical” scholars who never stepped into a College Classroom.

You mocked my Education and insinuated that I purchased my degree on line. Actually there was not even “One Line” when I received my degrees. I have graduated from two very large universities and I will be the first to say that just because you are teaching at a university does not mean you know anything. (Just look at our leaders – And I use that loosely)

And I said it before and I’ll say it again, “God does not TAKE BACK what he promises”. Now if you turn away from God you will most likely fail, whether it’s a family, a community, or a nation.

As for Job, I was washed in the Blood of Christ. I don’t have to concern myself with the sacrifice of goats, sheep and dove. I don’t have to separate the milk from the meat. I don’t have to worry about entering the “Holy of the Holies”. “It is DONE!!!”

I don’t know what God you serve but MINE keeps his promises. He knows that I may stumble and though he sees every transgression, I am free. Free at last, free at last, praise God I am free at last.

No our Nation is not failing because God turned his back on us. We are struggling because we turned our back on him. God won’t restore us when we fall on our knees. All the pieces are right there. When we fall on our knees as a nation, he gives us the vision to restore ourselves.

 

[[email protected]]

As for Job, I was washed in the Blood of Christ. I don’t have to concern myself with the sacrifice of goats, sheep and dove. I don’t have to separate the milk from the meat. I don’t have to worry about entering the “Holy of the Holies”. “It is DONE!!!”

No our Nation is not failing because God turned his back on us. We are struggling because we turned our back on him. God won’t restore us when we fall on our knees. All the pieces are right there. When we fall on our knees as a nation, he gives us the vision to restore ourselves.

You seem to have a lot of anger and are comfortable with leveling accusations against one and all.
You also deliberately misunderstand my meanings, and that makes me wonder why.

I began by referencing the book of Job. There is little or nothing there which describes the sacrifice of animals, Holy of Holys or dietary laws.
You digress to confusion.
There is everything there about the soverignty of God and its impact upon the lives and attitudes of men. A lesson which is timeless in its importance.
Or perhaps you are so intellectually and spiritually advanced that you may disregard its message entirely. If so, I envy your powers of faith and deduction.
We are not all so gifted.

With regard to your statements about God and our nation, you seem to be equally confused.
On the one hand you say that "God won't restore us when we fall on our knees" and on the other hand you say that God will give us "the vision to restore ourselves" when we do.

Which is it my learned brother?

IMHO God has abaondoned us as a nation because we have abandoned Him. Individuals who are devoted to Him may yet avail themselves of His mercy, but as a nation we are in deep trouble. Only the politically and spiritually naive deny it. As you say, all the pieces are there. Our problem is that 'all the pieces' are scattered about like the shattered remains of a once beautiful stained glass window.

It would be easier to reassemble Humpty Dumpty than the glory of our once proud republic.

 

[gator347]

You never addressed your attack on my so called support of the “Prosperity Doctrine”. Something I never posted.

You say I am angry, yet insinuated that I received my faith from unlearned preachers. You went on to insinuate because of your education that your opinion is of more significant.

When I say that I am as educated as you are, if not more so, you belittled that.

And my comment about Job (JOBE) proves your lack of understanding. Job was under the Old Covenant (ie Animal Sacrifice, Saturday Sabbath, ….The Law). Since Christ’s resurrection, we are no longer under the Law and have a New Covenant.

So, show me were God has stripped someone of their Blessings in the “New Testament”?

God is not punishing the USA. We punish ourselves. If God takes away His blessings, explain how Israel has held off its enemies in modern times even when out manned? They are becoming more secular by the day. Evil, have you seen Tel Aviv? So, why are they still blessed?

And you need to go back to Divinity School. Who tormented Job? And why? Job tells us no ironclad relationship exists between suffering and sin. Just because Christians suffer trials or tragedies does not mean God is punishing them for some sin.

 

[[email protected]]

You never addressed your attack on my so called support of the “Prosperity Doctrine”. Something I never posted.

I did that - ad naseum -. If you wish to enjoy it again, please go back and reread what I wrote.

You say I am angry, yet insinuated that I received my faith from unlearned preachers. You went on to insinuate because of your education that your opinion is of more significant.

When I say that I am as educated as you are, if not more so, you belittled that.

I didn't start the educational debate. Go back and reread it.
Can we please assume that our collective predilection to elucidate has formal justification and move on with the discussion?

And my comment about Job (JOBE) proves your lack of understanding. Job was under the Old Covenant (ie Animal Sacrifice, Saturday Sabbath, ….The Law). Since Christ’s resurrection, we are no longer under the Law and have a New Covenant.

Where in JOB do any of the characters talk about THE LAW? And where does THE LAW apply there at all, other than in a feeble attempt to justify man's rights over those of the Almighty?

So, show me were God has stripped someone of their Blessings in the “New Testament”?

Been there and done that. I even put it in bold face and red color. Do you have a problem with retention?

God is not punishing the USA. We punish ourselves. If God takes away His blessings, explain how Israel has held off its enemies in modern times even when out manned? They are becoming more secular by the day. Evil, have you seen Tel Aviv? So, why are they still blessed?

And you need to go back to Divinity School. Who tormented Job? And why? Job tells us no ironclad relationship exists between suffering and sin. Just because Christians suffer trials or tragedies does not mean God is punishing them for some sin.

God is indeed judging the United States. Please try to make sense of what is happening to our country in some context other than blind flag waving (it does nothing more than make a breeze).
Christianity is by nature a prophetic religion. Most folks who call themselves Christians hold to some sort of morality or rule of fair play not to mention Biblical precedent. In case you haven't read the news lately, the nation called America is actively and consistantly persuing a policy of denying and mocking God. What does the Bible say will happen to those who do such things? You don't need to be a prophet or a Christian to figure that one out. Christ has promised a way of escape for those who are called by His name. Christ is our hope, not the stars and stripes.

The book of Job does indeed show us that there is "no ironclad relationship between suffering and sin" as you've said. You also truly stated that "Christians suffer trials or tragedies.....not ... meaning..God is punishing them for some sin".

What answer then should be given to those who ask why? You know they'll ask.

Quite simply, it is none of our business. As in the old hymn "Trust and Obey", we are called to discipleship, to give ourselves, our hopes and our lives to Him who is able to be trusted with them. We are never given a guarantee that we will be given a reason for His actions (even though there are times when understanding is granted - such things are often testimony to His gracious nature).

I argue for the soverignty of Almighty God and for His righteousness, not the right of man to question His actions and certainly not on behalf of the debauchery which is now symbolized by the American flag.

 

[gator347]

I did that - ad naseum -. If you wish to enjoy it again, please go back and reread what I wrote.



I didn't start the educational debate. Go back and reread it.
Can we please assume that our collective predilection to elucidate has formal justification and move on with the discussion?


Where in JOB do any of the characters talk about THE LAW? And where does THE LAW apply there at all, other than in a feeble attempt to justify man's rights over those of the Almighty?



Been there and done that. I even put it in bold face and red color. Do you have a problem with retention?


You speak here as an uneducated and inexperienced child. The world holds pleasure and possessions above all else. Who said this? Oh yeah, YOU DID!!!

Now who is acting like a child?

I did that - ad naseum -. If you wish to enjoy it again, please go back and reread what I wrote.

I don’t and never had proposed the “Property Doctrine” so it looks you are nauseas with yourself. therein to be content. Paul tells us to be content where we are.

Where in JOB do any of the characters talk about THE LAW? And where does THE LAW apply there at all, other than in a feeble attempt to justify man's rights over those of the Almighty?

This is your dribble. I said God does not take away his blessings since the “New Covenant”

Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therein to be content.
I know how to be abased, and I know also how to abound: in everything and in all things have I learned the secret both to be filled and to be hungry, both to abound and to be in want.
I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me.
Howbeit ye did well, that ye had fellowship with my affliction.
Phillipians 4:11-14

And what blessing is stripped here? Excuse me?

Do you have a problem with retention?

Can you even read?

other than blind flag waving – WHAT?

As I said before, God has not turned his back on us. We have turned our back on HIM. What part of this don’t you understand?


God is indeed judging the United States. Please try to make sense of what is happening to our country in some context other than blind flag waving (it does nothing more than make a breeze).
Christianity is by nature a prophetic religion. Most folks who call themselves Christians hold to some sort of morality or rule of fair play not to mention Biblical precedent. In case you haven't read the news lately, the nation called America is actively and consistantly persuing a policy of denying and mocking God. What does the Bible say will happen to those who do such things? You don't need to be a prophet or a Christian to figure that one out. Christ has promised a way of escape for those who are called by His name. Christ is our hope, not the stars and stripes.

The book of Job does indeed show us that there is "no ironclad relationship between suffering and sin" as you've said. You also truly stated that "Christians suffer trials or tragedies.....not ... meaning..God is punishing them for some sin".

What answer then should be given to those who ask why? You know they'll ask.

Quite simply, it is none of our business. As in the old hymn "Trust and Obey", we are called to discipleship, to give ourselves, our hopes and our lives to Him who is able to be trusted with them. We are never given a guarantee that we will be given a reason for His actions (even though there are times when understanding is granted - such things are often testimony to His gracious nature).

I argue for the soverignty of Almighty God and for His righteousness, not the right of man to question His actions and certainly not on behalf of the debauchery which is now symbolized by the American flag.

 

[[email protected]]

Maybe we should go back to the beginning and start over.